Mini Ecoboost Project

Started by MiniDave, June 26, 2016, 09:53:26 AM

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MiniDave

#50
Follow up - there is three and a half inches difference in the track between the Fiesta and the Focus......can't all be due to wheels, can it?

61.2 vs 57.7

Rear is 60.4 vs 57.0
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Merlin

Cant see why not. 1.75in per side isnt much when you consider the possibility in wheelspacing.

I poked around on fordparts.com as long as I could and the cars share the same trans, axles, shocks and hubs. Don't know where else it could come from.
Engineering the Impossible

MiniDave

We have a Ford factory training center just a few miles from the school - in fact the school used to offer a Ford based training program to our students, but they opted out just before I started teaching there - anyway, so I went by and spent an hour or so talking to one of their engineers about my project, and I'm afraid the news wasn't good. It looks like the only way this is going to work is if I use an aftermarket ECU, and I don't know if any of them will accommodate an automatic transmission.......

I might be heading back to Honda-ville.......more as it happens.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

Hondaville huh.  Welp, off with the new inner wings! 

MiniDave

Nope, still putting the motor in the back, just might use a VTeC rather than the Ecoboost because of ease of the wiring of the ECU plus the depth of the aftermarket for hot rod parts and tunes.

I still want to do the Eco motor so I sent a note off to SC Components (Jeff 10049's link) to see if their ECU and harness will work with an automatic......
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

Ahh. Then what's the allure of an ecoboost?

MiniDave

Very light weight and compact size, along with the 6 speed auto trans.....plus 125 hp and 145 torques!

But that SC ECU for the Ecoboost is $2000!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Merlin

Have you had a chance to look at the 2L ecoboost? What do you think of its dimensional ability to fit in the mini?

What was the verdict from the Ford guys on the computer. What part of it makes it difficult to throw into the car?
Engineering the Impossible

TJF

Here are some reasons why a 1.0L ecoboost swap is not easy:

Direct injection.
Drive by wire throttle.
Variable valve timing.
Tricky split cooling system (I'm not sure if this is ECU controlled or just uses a variation of a thermostat)
ECU controlled variable displacement oil pump.

The main attraction for me to this engine is that it is small and may actually fit in the correct place of a Mini. It would give better performance and better fuel economy. Maybe Ford will eventually sell the parts needed to make this work outside the car it was intended to be in.

MiniDave

#59
All those things are workable, the real problems are what Jeff10049 mentioned in his post way back on page one - the ECU looks for 8 different things before it will allow the car to start, and I don't know of any way to avoid those.....not only that but I don't need any of them (like stability control, ABS, steering angle, yaw sensor etc etc.....) and it needs three different can busses to sort all that to the ECU.

The only way I an see to do it with the Ecoboost (right now anyway) is with a standalone ECU like Merlin and Jeff both suggested, like the one SC sells.....but $2K!

I don't think it will fit in the front of a roundnose, some of the components are too big, but I'd like to see it done too. 
I've seen one done in the front of a Clubman tho.....it was really tight!

As far as other engines go, if I don't use this I'm open to pretty much anything else 4 cyl since it's going in the back there should be room - but I want an auto, and preferably a modern 6 speed to keep cruising revs down. I've even been looking an N18 MINI motors.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MPlayle

Unfortunately, I would think anything with a "modern 6-speed automatic transmission" is likely to also want all of the ancillary systems present like the ecoboost engine does if using the respective stock ecu.

The challenge seems to be finding something where someone has developed an affordable standalone ecu?


jeff10049

Actually the n18 might be a little easier because of it's racing use and places like Dinan should be able to help. Have you checked motech's prices for ecus? I think they will work for ecoboost I know people have used them on n18's . Hydra is another option a little cheaper but still gonna run you around 1,500.Or maybe look to cosworth. There's lots going on in the DI world the last few years and I'm not following real close. Don't give up/in stick with the eco if thats what you want  it can be done. Keep taliking to ecu makers you'll find a suitable one Im fairly sure. I wonder what Link engine managment is up to these days? 


Also I think kms makes a add on for DI to any stand alone ecu I'm not recommending it and haven't used one but another lead maybe?

Jeff

MiniDave

So far, like mplayle says if you want the auto trans you need some of the other stuff.....SC wrote back to say their ECU will not control the automatic transmission, nor do they intend to make one that will....

However, I may be going a slightly different route - more info later today!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniGene

Quote from: MiniDave on August 18, 2016, 07:17:36 PM
All those things are workable, the real problems are what Jeff10049 mentioned in his post way back on page one - the ECU looks for 8 different things before it will allow the car to start, and I don't know of any way to avoid those.....not only that but I don't need any of them (like stability control, ABS, steering angle, yaw sensor etc etc...

I wonder if it would be possible to wire in a "loop back" into each of those circuits to trick the ECU into thinking that it's reading them.

MPlayle

If it is using CANbus, that is usually a command query/response protocol and a simple "loopback" would not work.

Merlin

Canbus hacks are all the rage nowadays.

http://linklayer.github.io/cantact/

I bet that a sweet little Arduino could be programmed to simulate all of the IO that you need to make the car run, but boy would you need to be on some nerd-level high to get through all of the protocal you would need and simulate it back.

Engineering the Impossible

MiniDave

WAY beyond my pay grade, I'm afraid.........remember, I grew up in an analog world.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

roadhouse


MiniDave

#68
I'm working on it.......I'm approaching from two different angles now - first I sent a note off to a Ford engineer contact I got from the local Ford training center guy I talked to the other day, to see if they would consider modifying the ECU from the wrecked car I buy so I can use it in the Mini.

2nd prong is I'm working with the NCS Expert people to see if they can do the same thing with a MINI ecu - MINI now make a 3 cyl turbo motor too - it's physically a little bit bigger and heavier than the Ford, and makes a little more HP (130 vs 125) but since it's going in the back I will make it fit OK - that sort of keeps it in the "family", kinda like putting a modern Ford V-8 in your 32 Ford hotrod instead of a Chevy.

Last resort is to just go with a Honda motor, where everything is readily available.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

Can we put a rotary back there?  4.gif

roadhouse

#70
I say have some fun. Since you're already putting the engine in the back just go for the ecoboost 3.5 or coyote 5.0 :)

But really, have you considered the ecoboost 2.0? I may have missed it in this thread if you talked about it. Ford Performance has the controls pack available for them now so the swap would be easier.

2.0 crate motor and controls pack for $5,600. Oviously a used motor would be cheaper but this package with a brand new engine and $2k controls pack doesn't seem too bad.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-9000-20tk?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-ford-performance-parts&gclid=CJrVi9zC384CFQEEaQod-gQKOA

MiniDave

A couple of problems with that package at least for what I'm doing - no transmission - and I want an automatic.

None of these aftermarket control setups work with an auto trans, so I'm stuck using the oem controls, hoping that I can modify them to do what I want.

I actually was considering Mini Tecs new package designed to put a Honda V-6 in the back, but really spendy!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

roadhouse

Gotcha. Forgot about the auto trans...

Yes the mini tec stuff is expensive. I looked at their conversions before deciding on the R1 conversion. Cool stuff though

Merlin

I don't think I have seen a solid answer on this one, but have you looked at the packaging ability of the 2L ecoboost in the front? I am thinking not about your project, but one that has been rattling in my head for a while.
Engineering the Impossible

MiniDave

I don't think it will fit, unless you use different ancillaries - plus the intercooler is a problem. The 1L Eco that I saw done in front was in a Clubman, and it just barely fit....but I think a lot of that had to do with how he ran all the piping, and he used a huge front mounted intercooler. Says it runs like a beast tho! He also used the 5 speed gear box, and said the 6 speed was bigger and might not fit.

I'm thinking I really need to get one of these up on a rack so I can look it over and take some measurements.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

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