Restoration-Mini

Technical Forums => Restorations => Daves Garage => Topic started by: MiniDave on June 26, 2016, 09:53:26 AM

Title: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on June 26, 2016, 09:53:26 AM
I've been talking about this for quite a while now, looks like I'm going to get started on it at last!

The donor car will be a late model Fiesta or Focus, the engine the 1 liter turbo charged 3 cylinder Ecoboost Ford engine, with the 6 speed automatic transmichigan. 125 hp and 145 torques...should be more than enough.

My plan is to mount it in the rear mid-engine position, allowing me room up front for the stock car's radiator and A/C condenser (yep, it will have A/C - no more driving thru Kansas summers in a classic with no A/C) although the wife pointed out that not only will it not have a back seat for our fur kids, but also no luggage room. so I guess either a trailer or a roof top box will be needed when I want to go to far away Mini events.  The fur kids are out of luck, but they're so old (16 now) the only place they ride to these days is the vets.....they won't mind.

I also am having a color decision challenge, I want the car to be really bright to show up well in traffic but I'm not interested in salmon pink! or yellow, orange, purple or even red. Lord knows there are enough red Minis out there even tho I like it in red. So I'm thinking lazer blue, or maybe a bright green (I don't like those yellow green metallics you see on the new Camaro and such...too yellow) I did see a classic online that was a very pretty gold with a cream interior - with plenty of chrome bits it actually looked really good.....that was not a color I had ever considered but it was pretty cool looking.

At any rate that decision is far down the road, and first things first.

This is the car that I bought this weekend, a real 67 Cooper S, although the engine is not a Cooper S but a later 1275 with a real Cooper S AEG163 cylinder head. The car used to be rallied regularly so it's a little rough and will need the usual rust repairs to the floors, sills and such.

However, before I get pilloried for cutting up an original Cooper S, this is not the car I'm building - I traded it to Dan for the late model shell he has in his shop - that's the one I'll be cutting to bits!

First I have to get it home and get the motor pulled, then figure out how and when I can bring it down to Dan's shop.

Then I need to buy the donor car - the 3 cyl Ecoboost cars are less than 5% of the wrecked Fiestas and Focus I see online, so it may be a bit before I find the right car, also most of them seem to be hit in the front and I need one that was hit anywhere but the front, as I need all that stuff up there like the radiator, condenser and intercooler.

going to be an interesting project to say the least.

My first inspiration were the Twinis from the 60's, I saw how they mounted the second engine and it seemed to make sense to do a modern engine in the same location. I also was inspired by the Renault 5 turbos I'd seen on BaT, and Jay Leno's Shogun - an early Fiesta with a Taurus SHO motor in the back. Then at MMW I saw a fascinating red Mini that had a Hayabusa turbo mounted in the back - the real interesting part for me was how he did the body, he simply widened the rear slightly to cover the wider track instead of using huge flares, so to the casual onlooker the car looked pretty stock. Good eyes would notice the 14" wheels tho......

I like the little Ecoboost tho because not only is a very small package that makes good hp, lots of torque and great fuel economy, it also is VERY light - almost 100 lbs lighter than a stock Mini engine/trans.

More as it happens!
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Merlin on June 27, 2016, 06:50:31 AM
Check out Copart.com. That is where I scored my suburban for my 72 project.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: roadhouse on June 27, 2016, 07:04:26 AM
This is going to be a great swap :)
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MPlayle on June 27, 2016, 07:06:18 AM
As Merlin suggests, check Copart.com as they may still have something that was insurance "totaled" from the hailstorms in San Antonio a few weeks back.

Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: LilDrunkenSmurf on June 27, 2016, 07:14:26 AM
I've actually considered this swap. I also considered the larger ecoboost motor as well.

I have a pinto sitting in storage, slowly rusting away that I also considered dropping an ecoboost crate motor into.

Very interested to see this project pan out, and how you'll deal with the technical issues.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Merlin on June 27, 2016, 07:43:45 AM
Have you tried calling your nearest dealership and inquiring on a crate setup? I know that the 2 litre is available, but the 1 litre may be as well.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Willie_B on June 27, 2016, 08:13:21 AM
This is going to be great to watch. 4.gif
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on June 27, 2016, 11:00:42 AM
I've been on Copart since March when I sold Buzz, there were several 3 cyl Fiestas that went thru, but as I didn't have a Mini shell yet I didn't bid, now I wish I had as 3 cyl Fiestas seem to have dried up. 4 cyl non-ecoboost cars are plentiful, but I want the little motor with the turbo. One of the problems with Copart is the almost $1000 of fees they tack on, then shipping will run another $12-1500....

A hail damaged car would be perfect, but unless it was really bad hail damage, those usually bring more money than I want to spend. I'm looking for a car that got t-boned or hit up the back, and I'm only looking at 2015-2016 cars.

I think a crate motor would be big $$$$, and I need/want a lot more, like the seats and dash, radiator, condensor and A/C system, evaporator and such.....so a wreck will give me better value.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Merlin on June 27, 2016, 02:02:58 PM
The fee's are that bad depending on what they go for. There is a breakdown on their website of the costs. Shipping may get you, but we ship stuff all across the country and since its a wreck, the cost wont be as bad as a car on a car hauler. Seats and whatnot, well that's just blasphemous to put fiesta seats in a mini. At least keep it looking stock...

You let me know if you need anything and ill see what I can do.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Merlin on June 27, 2016, 02:15:15 PM
http://www.copart.com/us/Lot/22628406?searchId=1464759077

This one looks ok. its a manual, which may make things interesting. Sale date is tomorrow and shipping to my house is calculated under 1K Which means it would be less to you since it is in Colorado.
Radiator and condenser are missing, but you would have to go custom anyway to get it to work. Everything else is there.  Looks like someone has already stolen the biggest money makers off of the car, the head and tail lights.

There are three more on copart, but they are all smashed up good in the front. I believe that the people that buy cars like this are the same ones that take selfies while driving. A car that is 18K brand new attracts a certain type of buyer... One that doesn't care about what they drive.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on June 27, 2016, 02:21:23 PM
I had a Miata seat in Buzz, it made it possible to drive more than an hour at a time!  ;D

I appreciate the help - I really do, but I know what I want to do and how I'm going to do it.

I want an automatic, not just because it will be easier to engineer, but because I have bad knees and just prefer the auto - besides, the 6 speed auto can be shifted manually, like my 09 MINI.

Lastly, I want a Fiesta because of it's narrower track.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Merlin on June 27, 2016, 06:47:46 PM
Ooops, I though that the 1 litre only came in the fiesta. didn't look to see what it was... how much wider is the fiesta to the mini?

How much of the interior are you going to swap in? Are you going to try to cram most of the feature in or just keep it looking stock?

And I remember the miata seat. It looked really good in that car.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on June 27, 2016, 07:47:33 PM
I will use the seats, the rest will only be mechanical stuff......I think. I'm tempted to use the instruments and HVAC controls too.

The Fiesta is just under 3" wider track than the Mini, so 1 1/2" wider per side.....not to much that a good set of Sportspack arches wouldn't cover.

I may be tempted to try and use the steering column and electric steering rack too, but till I get a car I won't know for sure.....
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MtyMous on June 27, 2016, 08:18:21 PM
holy crap, holy crap, holy crap!!!

I've been waiting for someone to have the balls to do this. I can't wait to watch this unfold.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: jedduh01 on June 28, 2016, 08:13:47 AM
Goodluck - this will be a HUGE build....  Binky esque build =  ? that sounds about right!

For this new of a car - you will need a full donor - with the computers and Modules to interact and control the whole thing top to bottom. the old days- were just - wack it out - and throw it in - with vehicle systems now as complex as they are = whew= one open door ajar switch could kill a whole powertrain.

Consider the fuel system too .  Many new turbo - direct injection systems are HIGH Pressure and dual pump , But you will need to supply it and cool it just the same as Ford does!

Timing belt runs in oil!  Say WHAT!!!!

  year has seen the launch of the 1.0
litre gasoline Ford EcoBoost engine,
also with a timing belt, running in oil, withthe durability to last the life of
the engine.

http://www.ngfeurope.com/~/media/NGF%20Europe/Site%20Content/News/Automotive%20Design%20Europe%20Feature.ashx

Learning lots already!
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: roadhouse on June 28, 2016, 10:43:07 AM
It's unfortunate that Ford Performance doesn't have a controls pack for the 1.0 ecoboost like they do for the 2.0 and 3.5. Would make the wiring of this swap much easier.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: tsumini on June 28, 2016, 08:41:35 PM
http://www.today.com/style/new-color-has-been-discovered-it-s-beautiful-t100335 (http://www.today.com/style/new-color-has-been-discovered-it-s-beautiful-t100335)
How 'bout this new blue? 71.gif
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on June 28, 2016, 08:52:02 PM
I like blue!

Cool stuff, wonder what it costs?
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on June 29, 2016, 03:17:44 PM
Got the engine out today, and got a little surprise - it has a factory oil temp gauge and sender....I've not seen one like this before.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Jims5543 on July 01, 2016, 06:06:36 AM
Quote from: MtyMous on June 27, 2016, 08:18:21 PM
holy crap, holy crap, holy crap!!!

I've been waiting for someone to have the balls to do this. I can't wait to watch this unfold.

+1 This looks like a great project,  gonna be fun to watch this one. This and R1 pickup are both fun.

Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 02, 2016, 11:19:17 AM
I've been finishing removing the unwanted stuff from the car, today I took out the modified dash.....and removed the Stewart Warned gauges - there was water temp, oil temp oil pressure, fuel pressure and voltmeter, along with a VDO clock that still worked!

There also was a row of 5 switches and 6 fuse holders, but when I pulled the dash back - Surprise! - they weren't wired up to anything!

I also removed that nasty paisley carpet and found an inch of underlayment on top of the factory jute padding - it must have weighed 60 lbs!

All I have left to take out are the remote shifter and old rusted exhaust system, then it's ready to go to Tulsa town.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on July 02, 2016, 01:21:24 PM
My clubby had two layers of carpet too. 
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: jeff10049 on July 02, 2016, 01:44:46 PM
This will be fun to watch come together. I saw a ecoboost 1.0 go up front on a clubby on another mini forum. but I don't think he was able to keep the a/c even in a clubman so your rear/mid engine location should be the ticket.
I wonder if one could be crammed in the front of a round nose though?

You might already know about these guys but if not they have a ecu and harness that might make things easier not sure with the auto trans but worth a call.

http://twinkam.co.uk/epages/191f6b26-60bf-483c-b021-755a0c9099c1.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/191f6b26-60bf-483c-b021-755a0c9099c1/Products/SC352 (http://twinkam.co.uk/epages/191f6b26-60bf-483c-b021-755a0c9099c1.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/191f6b26-60bf-483c-b021-755a0c9099c1/Products/SC352)

We worked on a ecoboost swap for a customer it was the v6 into a falcon and never could get the ecu happy without a custom tune to delete the  stuff we did't use.
It wanted to see the inputs from the FCIM, REM, LCM, FEM, DSC and SRS modules, The worst was trying to bypass the PATS antitheft system in a reliable way their was way more to it than we orignally thought as youtube seemed full of ways to bypass but they don't really work.

The other interesting thing we had to deal with was getting a speed signal to the ecu and it pretty much had to have it we did use the modern rear end with a speed sensor but the signal gets conditioned by the  ABS module (analog to digatail) then sent onto the ecu in the setup we were using. Ended up gutting a abs module from a stripped down model of the truck for the circut board and building a little interface module out of it to convert the signal.
As the donor truck had a DSC system that looked to hard to gut a board out of and get powered up just to convert the signal.

In the end it all worked great with no check engine light. After three custom tunes tricking a few things and coming up with the speed signal converter.
We didnt use a stand alone ecu because we thought the factory one would do a better job of controlling things. If we had it to do over the first thing I would do is order a ecu and harness for the swap.

Oh even the starter was controlled by the ecu through a module so yeah get the whole car and keep it until your project is driving in case you forget a module or something. That was the other thing that hosed us the doner had factory remote start and that module was also part of antitheft and PATS so we were unable to intergrate it into the other car as it even needed to see the cluster and about 20 inputs we didn't have.

My advice fwiw go with a stand alone ecu and add back the things you want with other stand alone systems like remote start. The idea of using eveything you can from the donor car is appealing but has to many roadblocks.

Might be way easier with the car you're looking at as opposed to a fully loaded f150 that we used.

looking forward to your build, I will look up the custom tuner we used if you need.


Jeff

Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 02, 2016, 03:02:32 PM
You make some good points, I'm hoping that because I'm using a base Fiesta I won't have quite as many weird things to deal with, like the remote start system.

First I need the donor car......still looking for that. For some reason 3 cyl Fiestas seem to have vanished off Copart lately, but I know there will be more - might have to wait for winter tho, seems like there were a bunch in the early part of this year.

I appreciate all the input! I didn't know there were any aftermarket ECU's that would run this direct injected, variable cam timing engine....last I looked SC only did the 2L 4 cyl, great to see them doing the 3 cyl too.

I followed the thread on TMF where the guy put one in his Clubby wagon, he also used a huge front mounted intercooler and the 5 speed stick shift version IIRC and I was not impressed with his piping runs, but it works, and runs great!

I think mounting it in the rear will add some complexity but at the same time allow me to do some things I couldn't if I tried to make it front drive. I'm glad you mentioned the ABS, I think I've figured out how to add the speed sensors to the front wheels, so I may have the first classic with ABS! Gonna be interesting - lots of engineering puzzles to be solved.......
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: jeff10049 on July 02, 2016, 11:20:33 PM
I would think a base car would be easier. Also you are using the auto trans that comes with it so you have a output shaft speed sensor that you can use if you go no abs sensors. I can't tell for sure in all data if the speed signal goes straight from the output speed to the ecu that'd be easy. Or if it gets converted via 4wabs or other module first like the ford pick up's. It for sure comes out of the ecu digital on the data lines to the other computers just can't tell if it comes in analog the diagrams in alldata suck ass on the 1.0 .Well everything really not sure why i pay for it.

Im sure you have access to a scope might want to check out a few signals at the ecu  when you get the donor before taking it apart just so you know what they need to be.

I wonder if the system SC sells uses a speed signal? we just could not get the v6 to run right without the ecu knowing the speed. Maybe some tuners can get rid of that not sure you'd want to though. kind of important with the vvt and all to work optimum.

Also the 1.0 is started by a combo of either the fcim or bcm and ecu no direct connection from the ign switch to starter. It just sends a signal to the computers to initiate a start cycle so check that out before disabling the donor. See what signal and what computer pin it goes to for starting. Although I think you can bypass most the stuff on a 1.0.

Good times ahead it's kinda fun figuring all this stuff out. I can't wait for this project to get going. If I see a good donor i'll let you know shipping might suck though.

Jeff



Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 03, 2016, 07:27:06 AM
Excellent! Thanks for the input!

I have Alldata access too, as well as Mitchell, but I haven't jumped into it yet. Yes, I want the auto trans and in fact without letting out too much info I plan to use as much of the car as I can to minimize the modifications....hell, I might even wind up with cruise control!  4.gif
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 07, 2016, 04:31:01 PM
Delivered the 67 Cooper S to Dan's shop today, and he and I discussed the work needed for my shell too. He's got so much work booked in the rest of this year I got a feeling I'll be driving around in primer till the spring - if I'm driving at all!   4.gif

Up to me to find a donor car/engine now.....then I can get going.

In the meantime, I have a few A series engines to build too......another came home with me today and I have two others (one for a Sprite) coming in the next couple of months.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on July 07, 2016, 05:52:35 PM
I have a feeling you're going to building lots of engines.  I actually talked to a buddy today about asking amongst his mechanic friends for body guys I can hire to tackle all these minis.  7 at the shop right now and 3 more in line. 
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 08, 2016, 12:40:19 PM
To that end I went down to Home Depot and bought a sheet of 3/4" melamine coated pressboard, I routed out some holes on the bottom to accept the stop lugs welded on the lift, that will hold the board in place as I slide things around on it.

Being able to adjust the height of the work surface is a big help to my back, and the melamine surface will clean up easily.

(http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/attachments/classic-mini/10237d1468006569-mini-ecoboost-project-wp_20160708_12_12_59_pror.jpg)

(http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/attachments/classic-mini/10238d1468006959-mini-ecoboost-project-wp_20160708_12_14_00_prorr.jpg)
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Willie_B on July 08, 2016, 01:22:17 PM
Neat idea. 4.gif
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on July 08, 2016, 01:24:19 PM
All those restoration mini engines  4.gif
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 08, 2016, 01:37:07 PM
There's another in the test stand...sorta. My old block, your trans and cylinder head....... too many taken apart and not enough going back together yet.

It'll be fun when I can start some assembly.....I guess I could go ahead and get the block on the 67 Cooper S engine going, except till I sell it for sure I don't know how the new owner will want it done.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on July 08, 2016, 01:54:24 PM
Well hopefully my cam and timing chain aren't back ordered much longer. 
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 08, 2016, 04:27:55 PM
Is the second 1100 the one in Rusty? That would make a great turbo or supercharged engine!
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on July 08, 2016, 04:32:44 PM
It is and that's what I'm thinking about doing.  Then the question is which car do I put it in...
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 08, 2016, 05:00:03 PM
So many choices!   :-[ ;D 77.gif
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on July 08, 2016, 05:14:48 PM
How much power can one of these trannys actually handle?
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Vikram on July 08, 2016, 07:36:37 PM
I can't imagine it's too hard to retro fit the metro turbo setup into one of those? I know you have to change pistons in the 1275 to drop cr, but the 1098 is low enough already.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 08, 2016, 09:29:38 PM
Yep, should work just fine.....cr for the 998 is 8.3:1, the 1098 is 8.5:1 and the 1275 is 8.8:1, not a lot of difference there....I don't know what the turbo's were.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Vikram on July 09, 2016, 06:01:46 PM
I know it's a long way away, but are you planning on running the ecoboost stock as is, or tweaking the boost etc?
I had a quick look, and you weren't lying, ecoboosts are hard to find, especially wrecks....
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 09, 2016, 06:25:54 PM
Stock is 125 hp and 145 torques, that should be plenty!  4.gif
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 09, 2016, 06:26:53 PM
Quote from: Vikram on July 08, 2016, 07:36:37 PM
I can't imagine it's too hard to retro fit the metro turbo setup into one of those? I know you have to change pistons in the 1275 to drop cr, but the 1098 is low enough already.

Actually, you can just add a spacer plate under the headgasket, you don't have to change pistons.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: TJF on August 02, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
MiniDave,

I've thought about the 1.0L ecoboost as a Mini engine since I first heard of it.  I've occasionally been able to find wrecked cars on Copart, but they seem few and far between. An internet friend who does powertrain development for Ford thinks the swap will be too difficult to complete with all the electronics the engine has. The typical stand alone ECU's on the market can't handle the direct injection as far as I know. Ford did build a dune buggy type car that used a 1.0L ecoboost engine, but apparently even for the folks at Ford it was quite a a challenge to get it up and running. I hope you manage to make this work as I would love to see it.

If Ford would support the 1.0L like they do the larger Ecoboost engines and offer a kit it would be nice, although I doubt it would be cheap.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: TJF on August 02, 2016, 09:15:21 AM


Here is a video of the Buggy.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Merlin on August 02, 2016, 09:38:44 AM
A very expensive alternative would be to go to a standalone. This would mean butchering the harness.

http://www.motec.com/m1/m1overview/

Motec supports direct injection and a host of other things. I don't know if there is any cam phasing in the ecoboost, but this would be a start at looking into the swap. Motec is generally good at answering engineering questions, so give them a shout.


...after you win the lottery.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: flipstah on August 02, 2016, 09:45:15 AM
Subscribed for shenanigans.  4.gif
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on August 02, 2016, 09:50:37 AM
If apexi power fc has anything for an ecoboost I have a data log kit that can be used for tuning.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Merlin on August 02, 2016, 10:01:36 AM
You had talked earlier about using the fiesta because of its size vs the focus which is a little larger and more abundant. I have been looking over the ford parts website for a couple of moments comparing the fiesta trans and axles against the focus and they share the same part number. It may be worth looking into as the 1l fiesta is so hard to come by. Since the axles and hubs are the same, the difference must come in the wheels for the car.

May help with the search if you decided to ditch the dash as part of the swap.


Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on August 02, 2016, 02:16:35 PM
Ditch the dash....on the Mini or the Fiesta?

I need to check again but I thought the track was wider on the Fiesta.....

My plan was to use as much of the Fiesta as I could, like the entire dash etc to make it easier - sort of like simply changing the body......

Edit: gotcha....not use the Ford dash as the Focus is different......
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on August 02, 2016, 02:19:49 PM
Wonder if a VW motor would be any easier? Those 2L FSI turbo motors make a lot of power.....and they use them in everything, should be plenty of them around.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on August 03, 2016, 08:26:39 AM
Follow up - there is three and a half inches difference in the track between the Fiesta and the Focus......can't all be due to wheels, can it?

61.2 vs 57.7

Rear is 60.4 vs 57.0
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Merlin on August 03, 2016, 02:50:20 PM
Cant see why not. 1.75in per side isnt much when you consider the possibility in wheelspacing.

I poked around on fordparts.com as long as I could and the cars share the same trans, axles, shocks and hubs. Don't know where else it could come from.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on August 18, 2016, 02:45:59 PM
We have a Ford factory training center just a few miles from the school - in fact the school used to offer a Ford based training program to our students, but they opted out just before I started teaching there - anyway, so I went by and spent an hour or so talking to one of their engineers about my project, and I'm afraid the news wasn't good. It looks like the only way this is going to work is if I use an aftermarket ECU, and I don't know if any of them will accommodate an automatic transmission.......

I might be heading back to Honda-ville.......more as it happens.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on August 18, 2016, 02:56:38 PM
Hondaville huh.  Welp, off with the new inner wings! 
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on August 18, 2016, 03:16:16 PM
Nope, still putting the motor in the back, just might use a VTeC rather than the Ecoboost because of ease of the wiring of the ECU plus the depth of the aftermarket for hot rod parts and tunes.

I still want to do the Eco motor so I sent a note off to SC Components (Jeff 10049's link) to see if their ECU and harness will work with an automatic......
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on August 18, 2016, 03:19:01 PM
Ahh. Then what's the allure of an ecoboost?
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on August 18, 2016, 03:23:52 PM
Very light weight and compact size, along with the 6 speed auto trans.....plus 125 hp and 145 torques!

But that SC ECU for the Ecoboost is $2000!
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Merlin on August 18, 2016, 03:27:10 PM
Have you had a chance to look at the 2L ecoboost? What do you think of its dimensional ability to fit in the mini?

What was the verdict from the Ford guys on the computer. What part of it makes it difficult to throw into the car?
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: TJF on August 18, 2016, 05:55:51 PM
Here are some reasons why a 1.0L ecoboost swap is not easy:

Direct injection.
Drive by wire throttle.
Variable valve timing.
Tricky split cooling system (I'm not sure if this is ECU controlled or just uses a variation of a thermostat)
ECU controlled variable displacement oil pump.

The main attraction for me to this engine is that it is small and may actually fit in the correct place of a Mini. It would give better performance and better fuel economy. Maybe Ford will eventually sell the parts needed to make this work outside the car it was intended to be in.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on August 18, 2016, 07:17:36 PM
All those things are workable, the real problems are what Jeff10049 mentioned in his post way back on page one - the ECU looks for 8 different things before it will allow the car to start, and I don't know of any way to avoid those.....not only that but I don't need any of them (like stability control, ABS, steering angle, yaw sensor etc etc.....) and it needs three different can busses to sort all that to the ECU.

The only way I an see to do it with the Ecoboost (right now anyway) is with a standalone ECU like Merlin and Jeff both suggested, like the one SC sells.....but $2K!

I don't think it will fit in the front of a roundnose, some of the components are too big, but I'd like to see it done too. 
I've seen one done in the front of a Clubman tho.....it was really tight!

As far as other engines go, if I don't use this I'm open to pretty much anything else 4 cyl since it's going in the back there should be room - but I want an auto, and preferably a modern 6 speed to keep cruising revs down. I've even been looking an N18 MINI motors.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MPlayle on August 18, 2016, 08:05:35 PM
Unfortunately, I would think anything with a "modern 6-speed automatic transmission" is likely to also want all of the ancillary systems present like the ecoboost engine does if using the respective stock ecu.

The challenge seems to be finding something where someone has developed an affordable standalone ecu?

Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: jeff10049 on August 18, 2016, 10:36:27 PM
Actually the n18 might be a little easier because of it's racing use and places like Dinan should be able to help. Have you checked motech's prices for ecus? I think they will work for ecoboost I know people have used them on n18's . Hydra is another option a little cheaper but still gonna run you around 1,500.Or maybe look to cosworth. There's lots going on in the DI world the last few years and I'm not following real close. Don't give up/in stick with the eco if thats what you want  it can be done. Keep taliking to ecu makers you'll find a suitable one Im fairly sure. I wonder what Link engine managment is up to these days? 


Also I think kms makes a add on for DI to any stand alone ecu I'm not recommending it and haven't used one but another lead maybe?

Jeff
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on August 19, 2016, 07:09:37 AM
So far, like mplayle says if you want the auto trans you need some of the other stuff.....SC wrote back to say their ECU will not control the automatic transmission, nor do they intend to make one that will....

However, I may be going a slightly different route - more info later today!
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniGene on August 25, 2016, 01:20:27 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on August 18, 2016, 07:17:36 PM
All those things are workable, the real problems are what Jeff10049 mentioned in his post way back on page one - the ECU looks for 8 different things before it will allow the car to start, and I don't know of any way to avoid those.....not only that but I don't need any of them (like stability control, ABS, steering angle, yaw sensor etc etc...

I wonder if it would be possible to wire in a "loop back" into each of those circuits to trick the ECU into thinking that it's reading them.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MPlayle on August 25, 2016, 01:40:46 PM
If it is using CANbus, that is usually a command query/response protocol and a simple "loopback" would not work.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Merlin on August 25, 2016, 03:40:44 PM
Canbus hacks are all the rage nowadays.

http://linklayer.github.io/cantact/

I bet that a sweet little Arduino could be programmed to simulate all of the IO that you need to make the car run, but boy would you need to be on some nerd-level high to get through all of the protocal you would need and simulate it back.

Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on August 25, 2016, 05:57:37 PM
WAY beyond my pay grade, I'm afraid.........remember, I grew up in an analog world.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: roadhouse on August 26, 2016, 06:46:02 AM
So what's the plan now??
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on August 26, 2016, 08:22:47 AM
I'm working on it.......I'm approaching from two different angles now - first I sent a note off to a Ford engineer contact I got from the local Ford training center guy I talked to the other day, to see if they would consider modifying the ECU from the wrecked car I buy so I can use it in the Mini.

2nd prong is I'm working with the NCS Expert people to see if they can do the same thing with a MINI ecu - MINI now make a 3 cyl turbo motor too - it's physically a little bit bigger and heavier than the Ford, and makes a little more HP (130 vs 125) but since it's going in the back I will make it fit OK - that sort of keeps it in the "family", kinda like putting a modern Ford V-8 in your 32 Ford hotrod instead of a Chevy.

Last resort is to just go with a Honda motor, where everything is readily available.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on August 26, 2016, 09:10:54 AM
Can we put a rotary back there?  4.gif
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: roadhouse on August 26, 2016, 09:32:03 AM
I say have some fun. Since you're already putting the engine in the back just go for the ecoboost 3.5 or coyote 5.0 :)

But really, have you considered the ecoboost 2.0? I may have missed it in this thread if you talked about it. Ford Performance has the controls pack available for them now so the swap would be easier.

2.0 crate motor and controls pack for $5,600. Oviously a used motor would be cheaper but this package with a brand new engine and $2k controls pack doesn't seem too bad.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-9000-20tk?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-ford-performance-parts&gclid=CJrVi9zC384CFQEEaQod-gQKOA
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on August 26, 2016, 10:00:02 AM
A couple of problems with that package at least for what I'm doing - no transmission - and I want an automatic.

None of these aftermarket control setups work with an auto trans, so I'm stuck using the oem controls, hoping that I can modify them to do what I want.

I actually was considering Mini Tecs new package designed to put a Honda V-6 in the back, but really spendy!
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: roadhouse on August 26, 2016, 10:05:14 AM
Gotcha. Forgot about the auto trans...

Yes the mini tec stuff is expensive. I looked at their conversions before deciding on the R1 conversion. Cool stuff though
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Merlin on August 26, 2016, 11:27:34 AM
I don't think I have seen a solid answer on this one, but have you looked at the packaging ability of the 2L ecoboost in the front? I am thinking not about your project, but one that has been rattling in my head for a while.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on August 26, 2016, 11:47:57 AM
I don't think it will fit, unless you use different ancillaries - plus the intercooler is a problem. The 1L Eco that I saw done in front was in a Clubman, and it just barely fit....but I think a lot of that had to do with how he ran all the piping, and he used a huge front mounted intercooler. Says it runs like a beast tho! He also used the 5 speed gear box, and said the 6 speed was bigger and might not fit.

I'm thinking I really need to get one of these up on a rack so I can look it over and take some measurements.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Dmulder on September 19, 2016, 10:50:30 AM
Dave - I was talking to a friend about your ecu issues with the 1 litre Eco boost.  He suggested that you look at a company called MegaSquirt.  You can buy and program your own ecu. Just a suggestion.

Devin
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on September 19, 2016, 11:15:28 AM
Thanks Devin, I'm well familiar with Megasquirt......and quite a few others....there is in fact one company that builds an ECU specifically for the 1L Eco motor complete with harness, but manual trans only and no plans to do an autobox version (spendy too, almost $2k!) - and I really wanted to do an automatic.

None of the aftermarket ECU's will run an autobox for that matter....

Ford is now offering an ECU for this motor also, but again - it only runs the motor.

I'm now back to the planning stage - either I have to engineer a manual shift linkage and make it a stick, or go with a different motor - probably Honda - where there's plenty of aftermarket support. 
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: Merlin on September 20, 2016, 07:56:12 AM
What about using a standalone controller and making it work with the trans? I couldn't image that the transmission would be more difficult to control over any other transmission. They all have solenoids that controls line pressure and shifting.

It would be a little bit of an experiment though and would require some programming, so it would involve you installing the engine and hoping that  you can get the controller to work.


Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: jeff10049 on September 20, 2016, 10:23:55 PM
Good thought Merlin,
But not on this car  I'm pretty sure all the autos in these are actually dual clutch manuals and no one is making stand-alone controllers that I know of. Even the ford  factory TCM works poorly compared to other makes with dual clutch autos  Ford sorta failed on the dual clutch manuals that work like automatics they call it the power shift or select shift.

Owners of them call it the power maybe, someday, later, eventually, nevermind, forget about it, to late, shift. 

Maybe they offer a conventional auto but I have yet to see one they changed the name and ratios but from the reviews, I read it's still a poorly working dual clutch.

If a conventional auto is available then yes I think a stand alone controller could be made to work.

Jeff


Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on October 06, 2016, 04:32:03 PM
Well, this project is not dead, I'm still thinking/planning but I've been spending all my free time lately wrenching on and driving the racing green Mini......

I'm almost to the point of just building a D Series Vtec and calling it good, after all they're readily available and software support is all over. Of course, it will have to be a stick if I do......and while I'd prefer a modern 6 speed auto box, I can live with it.

I'll be changing out the diff for my buddy with the Vtec pickup this winter, so I'll get a good feel for the work and what ratio to use once his is done.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on October 07, 2016, 05:23:56 AM
That's definitely the easy way.  Would you buy a kit and just bolt it in and go, or fab your own subframe?
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: LilDrunkenSmurf on October 07, 2016, 05:57:29 AM
I really want to build a B series, but the cost of the subframe is holding me back.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: roadhouse on October 07, 2016, 06:03:09 AM
The minitec kits look super nice... lots of options
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on October 07, 2016, 09:34:33 AM
I will build my own subframe, but I might use their axles and ECU if I go D series Vtec.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: jeff10049 on October 07, 2016, 09:06:33 PM
Iffen yer gonna do a stick shift why not stay eco boost? don't go to the dark side  do something different  ;D. Or if you go honda mount it longitudinal and feed one axel to a front diff and one to a rear diff for AWD.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on June 26, 2022, 12:36:27 PM
Well, this project has slowly been coming back to life!

I'm in negotiations with an engine provider - and it will be an EcoBoost after all.....only they can't find me a three cylinder, so we're going with the engine out of a Focus ST - 4 cyl turbocharged with 252 HP and 275 torques, in a turn key package with the transmission (a 6 speed) and the ECU already modified to remove all the crap I don't need, so it will just be the stock engine management system - however, if I can find a tuner I can bump that up to 300 hp easily. Don't know that I'll need or even want to do that, but it's nice to know it's in there!

Cost will be close to or about what I would pay for a stock engine and trans from Mini Mania.....yes of course I can build one for less than they charge, but I'm just using them for comparison of what you get for what you spend.

This company delivers a crated engine on a pallet, ready to run. Hook up gas and a battery and turn the key and it will run on the pallet....radiator, air cleaner, intercooler etc all there and plumbed in.

Of course then the real fun begins, getting it into the back of the Mini, but I figure if MiniTec can do it with a V6 Honda motor and trans, I can do this too.

I'll let you all know what I got once negotiations are complete. Delivery could take up to 6 months as they are really backlogged with work, but that's OK. I have plenty to do to get ready before they ship the motor to me. They provide the vin of the car that the motor came from so you can look it up and prove mileage etc. They even provide pics of the car it came out of.
 
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: BruceK on June 26, 2022, 12:45:35 PM
Wow that's exciting news! I remember when you first started formulating this idea years ago.  So it's just been kind of percolating in your brain and now it's starting to come together. How exciting!
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: bikewiz on June 27, 2022, 05:14:01 AM
I have a '16 ST it's a great engine. Ford Performance has a kit M-FR1-FSTA that does a nice job of increasing power but not making it undriveable. They also benefit from a catch can as they're DI only so you can residue in the intake tracks.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on June 27, 2022, 06:55:07 AM
Boy howdy do I know about direct injection, since my 2009 MINI also has it. I cleaned the ports at about 50K, but I'm probably due to do it again since I'm over 100K now.

Are there good aftermarket support parts places, or do you just go to the dealer for bits?
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: bikewiz on June 28, 2022, 05:03:07 AM
Even though they don't make the ST for the US market any longer performance parts and spares are still readily available. CJ Pony parts, Mountune, and Ford Performance are just a few.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on June 28, 2022, 06:43:04 AM
Thanks!   77.gif

First things first, I need to get the thing here, see what I have and figure out how to mount it in the car......
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: jeff10049 on June 30, 2022, 02:03:44 PM
how cool is that what an easy way to overcome some of the ecu/tuning issues we talked about early on. I don't think packages were available at that time at least not that I was aware of.
Looking forward to this. 
I had a thought about the new mini turbo 3cyliner not sure how it compares size wise but then your back to overcoming all kinds of ecu/tuning issues as Im fairly certain its not offered in any kind of performance package.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on June 30, 2022, 05:02:27 PM
I thought a couple of times about using a MINI turbo motor - 3 & 4 cyl, but I know BMW's software has to be even more complicated than Fords, and I seriously doubt there's anyone doing a stripped ECU for them.

Ford has always offered a stripped ECU for the 2.0 and 2.3 motors, but still don't do one for the 3 cyl as far as I know......but it was REALLY spendy, about $2500 including a wiring harness just for the ECU.

I think since they started using the 2.3 motors in Mustangs, pickups and pretty much everything else they make that it's really opened up interest in these motors as sports car or hot rod motors instead of the usual LS.

The next challenge will be getting a taller final drive for it, since this car came with 18" wheels, the RPM difference looks to be about 1.6, so 3K on 18's would be 4800 on 13's.....with as much torque as this makes I don't need it wound up like that on the highway.

Bikewiz, what are you turning at 70 mph?
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: jeff10049 on July 01, 2022, 12:22:16 AM
Actually, you might be surprised it's probably easier to deal with the DME programming in a BMW.
Not suggesting you go that way but I wouldn't worry about programming or support for the BMW stuff it can be done.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: bikewiz on July 01, 2022, 05:17:22 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on June 30, 2022, 05:02:27 PM
Bikewiz, what are you turning at 70 mph?

I'll check on the next drive but I believe it's just shy of 3K maybe 2700 @ 70 the six speed is geared pretty low. My car has stock wheels/tires.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 14, 2022, 12:31:54 PM
I sent another email to my engine supplier as he's gone radio and email silent over the last 10 days or more.

In the threads of guys who have used them they also said communication was not easy or regular with these guys, but as they seem to be the only one doing the Ecoboost conversions, so they put up with it and in the end got the exact package they wanted Worth the wait if the end results work out I guess.

Dan picked up my Fortech flares from my sister's place in Denver - his only comment "they're huge!" I got them from a guy in the Rocky Mtn region Mini club, I guess he bought them for a project he was doing and went another way. As they're unobtanium now I was happy to score them for my project. Mania sold them for $900 a set last time they had them, which looks to be a while ago. 7Ent had them for less but neither has had stock for over a year.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on July 29, 2022, 09:01:57 AM
Well, the powerplant is ordered and a deposit paid, delivery isn't expected for 6 months due to their backlog of work. That will give me time to get the shop cleaned out and final projects done. I have one more engine I could build and sell just to get it out of the shop and build up a little more cash but I don't know if I'll do it....we'll see. I have a Sprite differential to rebuild and some work to do on my green Mini, then I can sell off all my extra "stuff" and clear the decks. I think it will take all of those 6 months to get ready to start the project!
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on January 02, 2023, 09:27:58 AM
Just spoke to the engine guys, they say I should have it in two weeks! Of course, that's just the beginning of the project. Still.....moving forward.  :13:
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: BruceK on January 02, 2023, 10:05:01 AM
Now the fun begins!  Working for yourself and solving problems as they come up.  I think you're really going to enjoy this!
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on March 14, 2023, 08:46:56 AM
OK, so it was a little more than two weeks, more like 3 months! However, the good news is that it looks like it will ship this week......here are some teaser photos.

Of course since this is a junkyard engine it will need a lot of clean and paint to make it ready to go into the car, many months of work ahead....

Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: cstudep on March 14, 2023, 12:24:55 PM
Cool! I assume this is just a junkyard pull and not really touched other than that? Don't remember all the specifics of year, version, etc.. but at least some of the ecoboost engines seemed to suffer more from carbon build up on the intake valves than some of the other DI engines. Probably depends on how it was driven, mileage, and who knows what else as well I am sure.

Might not be a bad idea to pull the intake and take a look to see if they need cleaning prior to getting it all polished up real nice.
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on March 14, 2023, 01:39:06 PM
Yes, I'm planning to do just that, as well as clean everything, replace all the gaskets and seals that are easy to reach, pull the trans and replace the clutch etc. All I know about it for sure is that it runs and has less than 100K on it. Looks like it might have a torn axle boot on one axle but I was planning to replace those anyway.

When it gets here all I need to do to hear it run is stick a hose in some gas, hook up a battery and crank it up. Looking forward to that!!!  :13:

So far, clutches seem to only come in two flavors - under $200 and over $600! I would think a stock one would work just fine since it will be pulling so much less weight (1200lbs less, guestimated)
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on March 15, 2023, 08:42:25 AM
What are the odds you do a rebuild/freshen up?  :grin:
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: cstudep on March 15, 2023, 08:54:04 AM
He will pull the intake off to take a look, and the next thing we will see is the bare block sitting there all nice and shiny with a pile of parts next to it  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on March 15, 2023, 12:23:45 PM
Not planning to pull the head off, tho I will take off the cam covers to maybe paint them. I don't anticipate pulling the head.....modern engines should go 200-250K miles without needing an overhaul.

There will be a pile o parts, no doubt! I'm looking at all those hoses and wondering if I can eliminate any of them....
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on April 07, 2023, 04:56:55 PM
The eagle has landed - pic with wife for scale!

They sent everything including the kitchen sink, hubs, uprights, brakes, pedal assembly, shifter and cables and on and on. Way more stuff that I can use - probably - we'll see. 2 Liter turbo 4cyl, 252 hp 275 torques 
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on April 07, 2023, 08:14:16 PM
That box is bigger than the mini!
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on April 09, 2023, 02:37:21 PM
A tiny teaser.....I don't have fuel hooked up to it so it's just running on what's in the fuel rail.

Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on April 15, 2023, 06:18:24 PM
Fed it some fuel and got it warmed up....

Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: 94touring on April 15, 2023, 08:40:51 PM
Sounds pretty good hooked up to that muffler too. 
Title: Re: Mini Ecoboost Project
Post by: MiniDave on April 20, 2023, 07:50:17 AM
Now that I know the engine runs (and sounds bad to the bone too!) I'll start stripping it down so I can begin figuring out how to build the new subframe and rear suspension - I have a LOT to learn about that so I'll be doing a lot of reading first....not to mention getting the axles sorted.

The radiator they sent with the engine is just too big to fit in the front of the Mini so I'll be looking for a different one.....this appears to be a single core, single pass radiator, I'm thinking a dual core, dual pass will do as well in a smaller overall size.

I found a fuel tank and will be ordering it soon, I've made contact with a guy who welds aluminum (or aluminium) and I will sub the modification of that and the weld up of the SS exhaust to him, once I figure out exactly how I want to build them.

Then I've got to figure out all the piping that needs to go from the engine to the front, my plan is to run everything thru the tunnel and have an almost completely flat floor under the car. Clancy has offered to do all the pipes for me - he has the tools and knows the best places to get SS braided hose and AN fittings. There will be a LOT of pipes - fuel, coolant, brakes, A/C lines.

This engine has a vacuum pump (since it's turbocharged) and I'm wondering about using the brake booster, since it will have 4 wheel discs now and the bias will be different with the engine in the back. If so, that's yet another pipe thru the tunnel. Plus I'll need to figure out coolant to the heater.....

Wiring is yet another challenge, I'll be using a lot of the original harness, adding what's needed for the engine and building an entire new dash harness as I don't plan to use the Mini instruments as they're not compatible with a modern engines electrical system Plus too and also I'm going to add A/C.

Dan and I are working out the logistics of getting the shell up to me, but before that comes I need to finish up some more gearboxes and diffs that got dropped on me (surprise!) and do some more cleaning and re-arranging of the shop and basement - there will be a lot of stuff that needs to be warehoused while I build this. Once I have it completed and running I'll blow it all back apart and send it back down to Dan for paint.

Still don't know what color to paint it, but that decision is WAY down the road.