998 Automatic #2 Rebuild

Started by MiniDave, December 28, 2020, 07:26:46 PM

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tmsmini

That is quick turn around from Joe.
If you are Ok with sharing, what did it cost?

I hyave one to send out to him.

MiniDave

#76
Sure, $275 shipped....basically 1/2 the cost of a new one.

I haven't seen it yet to see how he did, but I'll post a pic when it arrives.

It was a quick turnaround, much quicker than I expected to tell the truth, especially as I put a  note in with it asking to be contacted regarding cost before he did anything to it. When I sent it the post office said it would arrive Friday, and Friday mid-day is when he called and said it was done!

I didn't give him any grief about it as I thought the price was reasonable and I needed it done or I would have to buy a new carb.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

tmsmini

I had him do an HIF 44 several years ago and it was about the same.
He did an excellent job.

MiniDave

The carb came back from Joe Curto today and it looks terrific!

New float, needle and seat, new jet and needle, re-bushed the throttle shaft and all the hardware re-plated - looks as good as new!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

BruceK

Looks better than brand new.
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

Jimini II


MiniDave

The very last bits I should need to finish this off came in today, so I'll probably get back on it early next week and have it running by the weekend.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

#82
Ran into a snag....the first motion gear (bottom one) is not going into the right place, but stands proud of the case by about 1/8", so the rear cover won't go on properly.

Nick and I have talked about it and I sent him this pic, he's scratching his head too. for now I'm stuck as I can't really go any further till I get the back cover on and torque converter in place so I can fill the crankcase and pump up oil pressure.

Loyal readers will remember that the end of this shaft was broken off, so Nick had to supply us with a different reverse drum, but he claims they are all exactly the same and this is the original first motion gear, so it all should go together normally.

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MPlayle

It almost looks as if the center drop gear is holding it out - like the teeth cannot slide further in before the bottom gear is fully seated.

Can you try removing the middle gear and seating the bottom all the way then inserting the middle gear?

I seem to recall on the manual transmissions, there are different sized center gears depending on the year and 'A' versus 'A-Plus'.  They also have different sized shafts and bearings in the outer cover.


MiniDave

it's not the middle gear, the problem is the bottom gear is not going into the trans as far as it should.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MPlayle

I presume it can only go on the shaft one way and cannot be flipped (lip to the inside instead of the outside as in your picture).  I tried looking in both my manuals for something clearly showing that gear to see which way it is supposed to go on the shaft and neither showed it.



MiniDave

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

tsumini

I think what Mplayle means is that the three gears may not be meshing properly if the three gears have fixed axes and the middle one is not allowing the bottom one to translate rearward. Thus the suggestion of trying the fit without the center gear.
I would not be surprised if a poorly meshed gearset may have caused the unexplained failure of the shaft you noted at teardown.

MiniDave

#88
Nick thinks the nut was over torqued - said he had never seen one broken there before. A friend of mine who is a metallurgy expert looked at it and said it he thought it was just a poor casting.

I had previously tried the lower gear without the center gear (it's merely an idler), it's not having any impact - the lower gear simply is up against the boss on the reverse drum shaft and can't go any further in - why is what we're tying to understand, but till I get an answer I'm stopped. The smooth shaft outside the gear is where the bearing in the cover rides, and the nut pulls the bearing, gear and reverse hub together as a unit.

I may have to remove the reverse drum assembly and see what I can learn. I can't see any way to resolve it from the outside, I just hope I don't have to pull the engine off the trans again but it's starting to look that way.

Till then I have plenty of other projects to work on.....I loaded another Sprite race engine into my engine stand and pulled the pan off. Some gorgeous looking rods in there! I'm just doing a quick refresh on this engine, new rod and main bearings, thrust washers, oil pump and timing chain and a good clean up. The head is already done, but I have springs and rockers on the way for it too.

Here are a couple of better pics, that show how the gear is standing proud by about an eighth of an inch, and a pic of the gear to show how it can only go one way.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

tsumini

Yeah agree the spiral fracture shows overtorque not fatique as i speculated but would have guessed the threads would strip first.

Does a depth measurement to the face of the mating surface confirm gear is is touching and still proud. If not since it is (I presume) a new shaft so that the splines fit too tight and don't slip in far enough.

MiniDave

The boss on the gear is up against the shoulder on the hub, as it's supposed to be - to me the hub is sticking out too far or is somehow different than the one that was in there (other than not being broken!  ;D )

But Nick says they're all the same.

Gear slides on the splines easily, no binding.

I'm thinking I'm going to have to pull the hub out and see what I can learn.....not anxious to do that but I need to get this thing done. It's been too long already.....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

Well, a lot has been going on in this build over the last week or so.......when I last posted I had mounted the engine on the transmission but the primary or input gear didn't line up correctly with the other drop gears, so naturally the end case wouldn't fit on.

After talking with the guy who built the trans I decided to just take it apart and see if I could figure out what was wrong, so I removed the engine block from the transmission again and pulled the gear assembly out of the transmission. That part was easy enough (tho putting it back would be a MAJOR pita) and after studying it for a while I saw the problem. There was a gap between the two clutch assemblies that shouldn't have been there - and it was almost exactly the amount I needed to get the gear in line. Imagine that?

So, after talking with Nick again - as I didn't know how it was put together, whether pressed or bolted or what - I set the entire assembly up in my big vise, found an appropriately sized piece of round bar stock to act as a drift and gave it one good hit with my dead blow hammer - it went right together!

Now the "fun" part.

Inside the clutch hub are a bunch of discs with gear teeth that mesh with a gear that slides up on the inside of the hub, so as you slide it in those clutch discs have to line up so they can fit over the gear, but since they're inside the hub you can't see or touch them. It took over two hours of fiddling, jostling, bumping, turning and on and on till at last it fell into place.

with that done I could go ahead and re-assemble the engine onto the gearbox and start putting it all together....

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

#92
I had to shim up the lower gear before I could install the rear cover - I found the old shim, which was pretty knackered (remember - the end was broken off this hub and had rattled around for a while) so I dug into my Sprite gearbox parts and found some shims in exactly the right sizes, measured it out and found one the same size as the old one and slipped it all together and torqued the nut.

With that done the rear cover went on, then the torque converter and the low pressure oil pump. I also cleaned up the timing marks on the torque converter so I could see them better when timing the engine. Then the rest of of the transmission covers went on along with a few more bits.

Yes, the locknut is missing on the torque converter bolt - I have one coming from Spares, but the bolt is torqued.

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

#93
Next the cylinder head went on and was torqued down.

I had already timed the cam but I haven't permanently bolted the front cover on yet - more on that in a minute.

I adjusted the valve clearances and bolted on a bunch more bits and bobs....although I'm waiting on a few small parts from Spares later this week yet.....

On went the intake with the freshly rebuilt carb and the new ceramic coated header.....mechanical fuel pump, fit the filter in the cannister and installed that too.

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

#94
And now.......for my next magical trick, I'll pump up the oil pressure without turning the engine over!

How does he do it, you ask?  8.gif

Simple. (Well, I hope so anyway!)

Since this is an automatic, the torque converter and the oil filter are both empty - I can't prefill either as they sit sideways. Consequently, it takes a LOT of cranking both to get the pump primed and to fill both of those up before you can get pressure to the bearings and such. This isn't good for either the starter or the bearings.

My plan is this - I'll set the pistons 1/2 way down the bores so the valves can't hit, remove the chain from the cam (the oil pump is driven off the back of the cam) and put my big ol 1/2 drill motor on the cam nut and spin that sucker till I feel the resistance of the oil pressure building, then I'll know the filter and torque converter are full. I'll top off the oil and close the front end up (after putting the chain back on of course) and it will be ready to start. Then I'll know it will have oil pressure the moment it starts and I won't have to wind the crap out of the starter motor getting oil pressure up.

The only thing I don't know about this plan is whether oil will come gushing out of someplace on the front of the engine as the pressure builds - could be interesting.....  ::)

More as it happens later today.....

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

Well, my oil pressure cheat worked a treat! (I forgot I was going to video it - oh well)

It went exactly like I thought - at first the drill didn't want to turn the cam as all the valves are in place so I rotated it with a wrench to an "easy" place, then the drill spun it like mad! I felt the pressure come up quickly, I doubt it took even 15 seconds on the drill before I felt it and heard the drill slow way down. I did that one more time - checked the dipstick and it was a quart and a half down, topped it off and went again but only for about 10 seconds.

I didn't have any gushers but some oil did find it's way out from around the front main bearing and cam bearing - another sure sign that I have pressure, and there was oil in the top gallery too.

Now when I go to start it I know it will have immediate oil pressure just as if it had already been running. I'm just waiting on a few more bits so I can button it up and put it in the stand and fire it up. Stay tuned!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

#96
Front end is all done, letting some paint dry on a bracket I missed before so I can install the radiator. Then it's pretty much ready to go into the engine stand and start it up. I think I'm going to see about installing the shifter cable and shifter so I can see if it drives.

One more tiny success story....it hasn't leaked a drop of oil yet! When you empty one of these out completely like this it takes 8 quarts of oil to fill it up again, once you've recharged the torque converter and oil filter cannister.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

My MiniSpares order has shipped at last, but I doubt I'll get it till next week sometime, unless they surprise me and deliver on Sat again. They didn't used to do that.

I still have a few details to sort, but nothing I can't do while it's in the engine test stand.

While I have it out I measured how high I need to raise a car on the lift in order to install this from below - should clear easily. I'm hoping to be able to run it under, lift it up - or lower the car - or both - just like the factory did when they built it. We'll see how it works out.....having the table will make all the difference tho - I've done it on a floor jack and that was tough....trying to balance it on a small pad while maneuvering the engine into place and lowering the car all at the same time.



Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

Got it mounted up in the test bed, probably won't get to fire it up till Sat as my brother is coming to town for the weekend.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

Have you shown Bill any of these cool pics yet?