998 Automatic #2 Rebuild

Started by MiniDave, December 28, 2020, 07:26:46 PM

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MiniDave

This engine has been sitting for a long time on the dirt floor of a barn, and it looks it!   ;D

I'll be splitting the transmission off of it, crating it up and shipping it off to California to be rebuilt, while I rebuild the engine.

First I hauled it out to the driveway and fired up the pressure washer to try and get as much of the muck off it as I could. Then I blew it dry with air and got it back in the shop, onto my new Harbor Freight hydraulic lift table - which I am really coming to appreciate.

So, today I got going on it.....but got a surprise when I removed the cover for the low pressure valve under the torque converter - the end  of the input shaft fell out of the cover.....ruhroh.

I got ahold of Nick Upton today and he has a used part, so we're good to go, and I'll get it crated up and shipped out in a few days. I'm sending it out via Fastenal's truck to save a few bux on shipping.

I may even get the engine torn down and the parts sent off to the machine shop before I have to quit for my surgery date - we'll see. First I have to finish up the white car.

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

Here's what I got when I pulled the cover off the low pressure valve on the end of the transmission - you have to remove this cover so you can remove the nut, so you can get the drop gear housing off so you can split the transmission off the engine. Looks like it's been broken for a bit based on how worn the end of it is.

Then I hung the transmission off the engine hoist so I could drain out the last remains of the oil in the gearbox.

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Jimini II

That's a weird one i have never heard of it happening before.

MiniDave

Yep.....when I talk to Nick again I'll ask if he's seen it before.....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

I had a buttload of parts come in for this build, and I finally found some pistons, so I can go ahead and strip it down and get the parts sent off to the machine shop once the pistons come in. The second buttload with the pistons will be here in about 10 days, in that bunch will be a new set of tires and wheels for the car this is going in.

Tomorrow I'll build a crate for it so I can send the transmichigan off to sunny California. The owner already sent a check for the trans rebuild to the guy, so he's going to order parts for it tomorrow too. It won't help tho, when he's done with it I'll still be recuperating from my knee surgery on the 19th

Although it turned out to be a good thing that my surgery got moved back 2 weeks, so I can get some of these things finished up or at least in process.

I also need to fix the washing machine that's leaking, fix a noisy refrigerator fan and do a thorough clean of my bathroom (the bride won't touch it :) ) while I can still kneel...... after the surgery I won't be able to anymore.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

The last 998 auto I rebuilt was an A+, this one is a Pre A.....

Consequently I'm looking for a slot drive automatic oil pump so I can use this Evo1 camshaft, the current oil pump is a star drive and star drive cams are expensive and only available from one source that I can find, and have to be made to customer order.

So, if anyone has an old unused 998 or 1275 with an automatic that they're not going to use, I could use the oil pump. Automatic oil pumps are NLA in any configuration
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

cstudep

Did they do the oil pump drive differently on the automatics? I know it's a different pump but I figured they would stick with the same drive configurations.

Im no expert obviously so please enlighten me. I thought the pre A+ small bores were pin drive, the pre A+ large bores were star and the A+ did the slot, with various odd balls for some S motors and what not.

MiniDave

#7
They've had all three styles over the years, and while the drive method is the same - IE off the back of the camshaft - the pumps are completely different, and the pressure control is also different. So much so that to use an automatic block for a stick shift car requires some modifications.

The pumps are much bigger too, this one is a Pre A+ and is a star drive, the one I did earlier was a 998 A+ and it had a slot drive.

I think at some point they all went to slot drive.

My 1980 Clubman estate had a 1275GT motor and it had a pin drive cam in it.

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

cstudep

So your putting a different cam in this 998 and it is slot drive, hence the need for that style pump?

So you probably need a pump off an A+ auto.

I have a 1275 auto but it's pre A+ so probably the same as what you already have. The motor is complete so I'd have to tear it down to find out is why I was asking.

MiniDave

Yes, or from an A+ automatic - or a star drive camshaft.....

I have a slot drive cam but if I don't use it here I can use it on another build.

I think you might be right, but 1275's might have gone to a slot drive - no way of knowing for sure without taking it apart and I would not ask you to do that.

BTW, are you interested in selling that 1275 Auto?
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

cstudep

#10
Got ya, now I am on the same page with you LOL

I would certainly consider selling it as I really have no use for it. The only thing I was thinking of using off it were the Hardy Spicer axles/couplings as my 1275 has the old rubber U-joint drive couplings but I am not entirely sure what all parts I can use from an auto on a non-auto and I had not gotten around to researching any of that just yet. No idea if they are actually any better than the CV or other options but they are a lot more simple to get on and off.

I also have no idea really what shape the motor is in but the oil looks halfway decent in it and it turns over when I put a ratchet on the crank bolt. A little too easily actually so probably low on compression although I never actually checked to see exactly how tight the spark plugs are ran in. It's not seized up at least is all I really know, it has the non-X stamped 1316 head on it. It also has a 1/2 thick or so steel plate mounted up where I assume the oil filter setup would be. Looks like it maybe had some sort of external bypass filter setup or something? I have no idea what it came out of.

edit: spark plugs were not even in finger tight, I tightened them up and that certainly improved the compression but it still feels light. I may try to put the compression gauge on it tomorrow and see if I can get a reading.

BruceK

Is that even possible?  To hand-crank an engine and get a good compression reading?   Seems like it wouldn't spin fast enough. 
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

MiniDave

Yes. if it has good compression you'll feel the resistance as it comes up on compression stroke
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

BruceK

Of course. What I'm saying is I don't think you can get a good (accurate) reading on the compression gauge by hand cranking.
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

cstudep

I would agree you probably can't crank it fast enough by hand to get a valid reading. I am pretty sure the manufacturers stated compression #'s are also generally at the RPM the starter will turn the motor over with a properly charged battery.

It does have a starter on it so I was thinking about attempting to see if it works and spin it over that way perhaps. I turned it a few revolutions by hand with a breaker bar just to see if it would even turn over. I had never even tried doing that prior to tonight.

cstudep

#15
Well surprisingly enough it actually has pretty decent compression. Approximately as follows.
#1 115
#2 120
#3 115
#4 115

Good oil pressure too, as the plate that is mounted over the oil filter mount was not on tight and I pumped about half a quart of oil out on the first 4-5 revolutions. I still am not sure exactly how they had a filter hooked up. I pulled the plate off and it is machined to let oil flow through the various cavities there. It has some AN style fittings on the connection near the oil filter housing area. Best I can tell they must have had some sort of external filter piped in between the lower connection and the upper connection on the block as the standard pipe that is usually there is not there.

Edit: it just occurred to me, there was an external oil cooler that also had a filter housing piped to it with some hoses and what not. It came with the motor and some other stuff. I bet the fittings on those hoses match up to the fittings on the block. Now I am going to have to go out and look at it again. It never occurred to me until now that the 2 went together.

MiniDave

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

cstudep

And we have a match. It all makes sense now LOL. You can also see the mess I made with the oil spill and the fact that the camera on my phone refuses to bring into focus the entire picture frame.

Also on another note Dave, I can come down Saturday or Sunday if either of those days is better for you. Probably mid morning time frame both days but I am fairly flexible so whatever works for you.


MiniDave

Either day is good, your call. I have a box full of stuff, whatever you don't want goes to the scrap metal guy.

Where those two bolts are is where the oil filter housing should bolt on.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

cstudep

Let's do Saturday I'll shoot for 10:30 or so.

Yeah that's what I figured since that was really the only place one could go. Well that and the fact that oil pumps out of there like a Valdez tanker while it's turning over.

MiniDave

#20
OK, so back on topic....

The White car is done and ready to go home so I started in on the 998 engine again.

When we left off I had just stripped the transmichigan off the engine, that went pretty well....I'm really happy with this lift table....it gets the engine up to a good height for my back. I use the engine hoist to move it around, turn it over and so forth.

Over all this engine clearly hasn't run for a very long time - it's rusty inside especially in the water jacket and head. It has dished low compression pistons that I'll be swapping for 40 over flat tops so it will up the compression a bit.

After finding the star drive situation, we discussed various ways to fix this......the problem is we want to get a better camshaft for it, and all Spares makes are slot drive cams. I had already bought an Evo1 cam for it when I found the pump problem, but no worries I'll use it on a subsequent build.

Somerford off a Kent cam kit in star drive but it's really spendy - but I think we're going to have to go that way. The other choice was just to reuse the original cam as it's in surprisingly good shape but he's looking to up the power, so in for a penny.......

I'm going to do a little port work too, to try and get it to breath better with the new cam.

WillieB made me a tool to remove the cam bearings - I had two press tools for the two smaller cam bearings but needed one for the large one on the chain end. It came in the mail the other day and today I pressed it into service and it worked perfectly to remove the bearing shells. it will make putting them back in not only easier, but more accurate too as you have to line up the oil pressure holes between the shell and the block. Big props to WillieB for making this tool - it was perfect.

Next up, send the trasnmission off to California, and the block and crank to be bored.....and then once I'm done with it the head will go down to have hardened seats and guides installed, then a good three angle valve job and a light skim to give a good gasket surface.

I also need to get a bunch of parts off to the powder coaters, including having the header ceramic coated.

Once that's all done I'll be out of the shop for a month or so while my knee heals.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

#21
Cstudep came down today to pick up some old parts I had for him, and while we were in the shop he helped me engineer and build a crate to ship this transmission out. It turned out great and is really strong, so I have no worries about it making it to California and back undamaged. And yes, I copied WillieB's design!

Nicholas is also going to rebuild the oil pump to make sure it's up to snuff, as this trans looked like the oil hadn't been changed in a dog's age - although the camshaft itself and the rod/main bearings looked to be in pretty good shape.

I'll run it up to Fastenal on Monday morning and he can get started whenever he's ready. I'll be out of the shop for a good month I'm betting, so some of these jobs will be done while I'm out, then when I'm feeling better I can get back to work with parts here and sub-work already done.

The block and crank will go to that shop when the new pistons get here sometime next week, then after they've mic'd the crank (I'm thinking it will need to be ground at least to 10 under to clean it up and cure taper) I'll order the right main and rod bearings. In the meantime I'll soak this head in some rust remover before I send it down to the head shop. the block will get hot tanked before and after it's bored so I don't need to clean that rust out of the water jacket, they'll do it for me.

Sawdust made a mess in the shop, but it was 30* today so I wasn't going to cut wood or try to build this thing outside!

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

BruceK

1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

cstudep

Yeah it was surprisingly solid once we had it all screwed down. Minimal amount of lumber was required as well since the transmission by itself wasn't very tall. We knocked it out in a couple hours and had good conversation, can't beat that.

MiniDave

Could not have gotten it done without you!

Got it all buttoned up tonight, and YRC will pick it up Monday morning. They quoted $278 to ship it which I thought was reasonable. Fastenal currently has restrictions so they will not ship from the "East zone" where I am to the "West zone" where Boot 2 Bonnet is near Sacramento.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

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