New Project 1911 hupmobile

Started by jeff10049, November 19, 2021, 01:48:17 AM

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jeff10049

I had this 1911 Hupmobile follow me home I am only the 3rd owner got it from the widow of the grandson of the original owner.

It is in exceptional shape this thing is about 100 times better than my mini was when getting it hard to believe since it's near twice as old.

It had not run in 50 or so years I got it running and took a short drive it will come apart soon for restoration after lots of documentation as it appears very correct and original.

The entire car has 5 wires including the 4 spark plug leads headlamps are gas tail is kerosene.



94touring

How long does a project like that take?

MiniDave

#2
Wow, from the dawn of motoring....is it magneto fired? Crank start or electric? My daughter has a 1926 Model T sedan that her FIL restored, and it is one primitive piece of machinery - yet it's amazing to think that my father rode in one just like it from KC to California in 1926.....took them 2 weeks to get there.

This looks fairly sophisticated by comparison, and I expect it was a lot more money when new......

And hey - no snow up there yet?  ;D
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

BruceK

So cool.  It's great to have that intimate peek into mechanical history as the inventors and the innovators and the engineers of that time were working so hard to just figure everything out and develop solutions.   

Quote from: jeff10049 on November 19, 2021, 01:48:17 AM


It had not run in 50 or so years I got it running and took a short drive ...


That statement is incredible. 
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

jeff10049

Dan, If time and money allowed me to just go for it about a year I suppose the cars are simple and easy the hard parts are anything broken or missing must be made or if you are lucky someone has one. I hope to get it apart painted and back to driving before next winter pending the condition of some wood parts. Little things Nickle plating top upholstery, carriage lamp restoration, and such will happen more slowly the nice part is that stuff can get cleaned up and used as is and sent out over the next winter or two.

Dave, Henry Ford paid the Hupp 20 the ultimate compliment. "I recall looking at Bobby Hupp's roadster at the first show where it was exhibited and wondering whether we could ever build as good a small car for as little money." 

Ford Never did achieve that goal in the early years the Hupp was 100-200 dollars less than a T.
Comparing this Hupp to my 1919 T the Hupp is a superior car in almost every way better brakes, better ignition, easier to operate, smoother running.  Hupp made it up to 1940 they built some wonderful cars the last of their cars interestingly were built with the old Cord dies that were also used for the Graham Hollywood.

There were 127 American car manufacturers in 1911 I think what companies like Ford had on them even when another company had a better product at a better price was that Ford was/became a good businessman some of his choices could be argued in later years but early on he had the right ideas they also very much had economies of scale.

The car has a bosch fixed timing mag, crank start only, two speed gearbox, brake on the right pedal, throttle in the middle, clutch on left.

The 1911 hupp runabout was $750 new headlamps and other options were more I'm not sure how it ended up compared to a ford with the same options but the base price was less for the Hupp. Very impressive considering most cars of equal or better quality were not priced anywhere near the Ford sometimes 1000's more.


BruceK

Jeff on top of the engine what are those spigot/valve type things next to the spark plugs?
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

jeff10049

Quote from: BruceK on November 19, 2021, 05:37:01 PM
Jeff on top of the engine what are those spigot/valve type things next to the spark plugs?

Those are primer cups you add fuel to them and open the valve to allow it to run into the cylinder before starting then close em up and crank it.
The large nuts they are screwed into are how you remove the intake and exhaust valves.

Scargo

This is truly a fascinating and ambitious project. I very much look forward to following your progress which hopefully will be documented in this thread.


MiniDave

What color do you think you'll do? I hope it's something bright and cheerful.....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

jeff10049

#9
I will post updates here I may have the main documentation over on the AACA forums but I will link to that.

This car was originally blue I seem to end up with blue cars. I think poppy red was an option I like the red better but I want to keep it as correct as possible if red was an option I might just do it. Some say the fenders were always black others say that they also came body color so I guess that's up to me.



MiniDave

Will you enter it in AACA shows around the country then?

Are blue and red the only colors they came in? It could look good in a light yellow or cream too....Edit: right after I typed this I saw the car in the background!

Local guy had an early Mercer runabout in white - that looked good too.....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

jeff10049

Poppy red up too late 1910 then blue came out those are the only two correct colors I know of so far. The cream looks good and I saw pictures of a yellow car that looked good. I still don't have enough info to know if red and blue were all that was available but so far that's the only colors the original sales literature shows. I would like to keep it a color that was at least available.

I will do some shows for sure might even take it to Hershey.


94touring

Autocolor library doesn't go below 1924.  I took a look out of curiosity to see if they'd have this car listed.

jeff10049

Wow that's impressive that they go back to 24.

MiniDave

#14
Lessee.....mill the heads and get compression up to about 8-1, open up the carb jets and build a free flow muffler, I bet you can double the HP!   ;D

Shiny, black porcelain coating on the heads and exhaust (like they used to do on E-Type exhaust manifolds) would look great on this.

Acetylene gas for the headlights? So the lights are more to be seen than to actually see anything?
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

jeff10049

#15
  That'll give me about 40 hp >:D think the cork clutch will take it? LOL.

You would be surprised how well the gas lights work they are better than the early 6volt electrics.
I think there are a lot of misconceptions or assumptions perpetuated in part by all of the incorrectly restored stuff that doesn't work well.
The mirrors need to be good and silvered glass, not cheap repro chrome stuff you need correct 3/4" headlamp burners set right most people put them in 90 degrees out and only have 1/2" burners at least in most cars I have helped to correct.
They also had high and low beam options on some lamps a second burner that could be switched on and would light off the main beam burner. The Saxon lights on this car do not have the option but I thought some might find the interesting that such a thing was around back then.


The pictures are my first test of the lamps on this car it has correct burners and mirrors although misaligned broken and dirty they still cast a very visible beam at least the one that's aimed at the ground, not the sky LOL and it's only just getting dark in the pictures.  I will replace the mirrors when I restore the lights and get everything aligned correctly and do a night drive video.

(edit) As an example I just noticed in the picture of the red car above if you zoom in on the headlamp you can see the Y-shaped burner yep it's installed 90 degrees out the Y should run front to back not side to side.

cstudep

Wow that is a lot more light than I figured there would be.

MiniDave

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

jeff10049

#18
And that's with no cleaning and a low flame.
Here is a picture of the flame I didn't clean the burner and air bleeds very well it should be whiter you can see the mirror is dirty and broken and the burner is skewed a little I was just playing around assessing things.
I was having a hard time throttling the flame with a hose just stuck on my welding torch the top of the flame is a little rounded looking it should be the other way and look more like a fishtail the gas flow was too low but if I gave it any more it would overdo it very touchy. They will work fine with the proper valve and regulator. This was just a test to make sure someone hadn't screwed up the gas holes in the burner forks they are only a .001 hole and often get ruined by unknowing individuals.

MiniDave

So, do you carry a small bottle of acetylene or do these use a gas generator of some sort?
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

jeff10049

#20
This car has had two different carbide generators judging by the holes in the running board and a Prestolite tank over the years. I received a beautiful carbide generator with the car and a Prestolite B tank with running board mounts.
I think I will mount the generator because they look neat and put a B tank under the seat for convenience new B tanks are still available they don't have the cool gauge this original one has but that's ok I wouldn't trust this one at all.  I will make it so the generator can be used occasionally for fun but calcium carbide in qty is getting harder to come by I have a few pounds if I want to try the generator.


MiniDave

#21
Hasn't calcium carbide been banned? where would you get some once yours is gone?
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

jeff10049

It's not banned and probably never will be for gas generation. But the demand for it in smaller qty is going away. very small qty is readily available online but expensive (for miners lamps) The local welding shops can still order it if i need some but the tank is just so easy. Calcium carbide as a fruit riping agent has been banned in the U.S.A and some other countries that may be what you are thinking of.

jeff10049

So a lot has happened on this car, I do have a thread over on the aaca but it's all over the place I'll try and do a better job here.
The exceptional shape of this car ends with the body and frame the drivetrain is a complete disaster.

One project I worked on during the coldest time of the year is that I found the remains of an original floor mat under the seat and with the help of some folks on the AACA also got pictures of other sections of the mat and was able to draw the mat up in cad. A test mold has been CNC routed to check the file and its great. New mats will be cast in black urethane 80 durometer in a permanent mold cut from Corian countertop material.

I also did the radiator cap plastic part in cad to 3d print a ne one the original is crumbling apart.

I'll post a few pictures of the original and the mold. then I'll be posting a few more replies of other progress over the few hours and days to get this caught up since some of you expressed interest in this car.

jeff10049

I also removed the windshield frame, top, door, and side from the body the windshield frame has a crack in it 45% silver braze is a close color match so I repaired that, and it's almost impossible to see after polishing out the repair. also removed the kerosene lights, engine, gearbox, steering wheel, and rear end. The wood portion of the framing in the body panels is in superb condition I lucked out on that.


Picture of ground out crack, then braze, then grind and polish.
Door wood.
And a few shots of the engine removal

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