Would you replace this wing

[Spitz]

My 61 van is becoming a bit of a chore.

Upon removing the seam cover this little rot patch showed.  It's actually the only rot on the whole wing.
There are several holes, and dents around the holes, from the PO who apparantly kept trying different mirrors!

[MiniDave]

How good are your metal working skills? Can you work those dents back out too?

I'd be tempted to cut out a patch and weld it in.

[Spitz]

My metal skills are shyte....I'm just learning.
My plan was to pick up a dolly and try to work on the little dings, I've been watching a few how to vids.

My concern right now is that little bit of rust.  Is a patch OK there?   I would try to make a bend to match the seam

[94touring]

My thoughts are this.  Wings are cheap and for the most part easy to replace.  By removing them when they are partially rotten, you also are also able to clean the seams at the scuttle and front panel which I can almost guarantee have rust in them.  Personally I'd replace them.  The amount of time spent patching can be spent popping off the old wing and fitting the new.  If you decide to replace I have pointers to make it easier. 

[MiniDave]

If your welding and metal working skills are not top notch, I agree with Dan - replace it and spend your time on other things, Keep the old fender and practice on it as you have time.

[Spitz]

"Popping off" easier said than done.  I can't believe how long it took to get that a-panel off and spot welds out. Me and my grinder sent sparks flying for probably an hour.
As for spot weld drill bits....don't you still have to grind away until you find the spot welds?
I just went grinding untill I see the sport that glows red easily and pay attention there.  The metal then just gets so thin it folds away.

I thought maybe just get a wing....but would have to remove the car from the rotis  for alignment.  Also...with our dollar in the tank....panels are pretty pricy right now.
The other wing has the same holes...just not the small amount of rot ( I hope )

All in all...this van has far less rust than others of this vintage, it's just pi$$ing me off at the moment.  I wont be able to do any welding until March or April

[Spitz]

Dave,....your reply came in while I was typing ( cool feature of the site actually )

[94touring]

You need to invest in an air chisel.  Easiest way to remove the wing is cutting wheel and cut along the perimeter to remove the bulk of the wing, then it's easy to run the air chisel along the seams and pop welds.  Then simply grind excess spot weld lumps.  With the front panel attached to the inner wings and one existing wing on, no real concern with keeping it aligned.  Do one wing at a time and you'll be good. 

[Spitz]

I have the air chisel...used it a little today ..it's a brute

[Spitz]

When replacing a wing (still undecided) is seam sealer pressed into the front seam where it meets the front panel...also at the scuttle?(after welding)
I'm sure ive seen some somewhat filled, and some with nothing

[94touring]

Yes.  You'll want to buy a specific seam sealer just for the seams.

[Spitz]

This is the visable areas I'm referring to.  So is it pressed in like bathroom calking would be?

[94touring]

If you tried posting a pic it didn't show, but yes you press it into the seams.  I find running a piece of tape along the edge of the seam keeps it cleaner.  Press in, make it look pretty by running your finger over it (gloves on), then remove tape. 

[Mudhen]

My first attempt at splitting spot welds was eye opening.  I thought I'd just be able to grab the air chisel - holy crap, it went everywhere EXCEPT the spot welds.  I'm surprised you're able to do it.  Might have to try again.

On some of my panels I used a spot weld driller - the one like a hole saw with a pilot point in the middle.  Others I cut off as close as possible and tried grinding the flange back down to one layer - yikes, was that a ridiculous chore...won't do that one again.  On the 944 I tried leaving the spot welded section in place, cutting the panel as close to it as possible (and cutting the new panel flange area off), and welding the new one in right in the corner.  Again, ridiculous chore and won't attempt again.  Welding 15 spot welds is just a tad easier than trying to weld ALL the way across an entire sill...

Oh, I also tried the 'flat' drill bit, which I also found to be impossible.

The only real success I had was that spot weld driller, which still sucked.  But if you get an air chisel to work I might have a go at taking off my used wing I put on...

And I thought previously you said you didn't use anything in those seams?!?!?!

[94touring]

Sometimes it makes sense why people pay me to fix these cars, it's not exactly easy!

[MiniDave]

Exactly. The reason we make what we do look easy came at a great expense of time and effort learning......

But as I tell my brothers, they're good at stuff I can't even do - we all have our strengths.

[jedduh01]

On The spot weld driller= = make sure you're drilling either a Pilot Hole - for the Centering pin- or a good depression drill spot for it stay in - and not walk away = That's where i get most frustrated but that is quickly resolved  with a pre drill.
     I double down drills- Set up with a small bit for Piloting- and second for the Spot welder.  For me, most times when you start to see rust dust come around the spot driller- you're thru! Move to the next.

Air chisel= Dan can you shoot back a picture of your blade= I could bet will require a Tight and tidy end point.  With nice fast action to zip thru them

[Mudhen]

On The spot weld driller= = make sure you're drilling either a Pilot Hole - for the Centering pin- or a good depression drill spot for it stay in - and not walk away = That's where i get most frustrated but that is quickly resolved  with a pre drill.
     I double down drills- Set up with a small bit for Piloting- and second for the Spot welder.  For me, most times when you start to see rust dust come around the spot driller- you're thru! Move to the next.

Air chisel= Dan can you shoot back a picture of your blade= I could bet will require a Tight and tidy end point.  With nice fast action to zip thru them

I've had really good luck with the spot weld driller with the point - but YES!  that little burst of dust, I've noticed that!  Music to my lungs...

He only has one magic air chisel and none of us want to see it.  No way does he really get that to work - he's just trying to make us all feel bad!

[94touring]

Standard flat blade.  I hit it in short burst.  Try getting it started with a quick shot under the seam to lift it.  Then at an angle nearly parallel to the seam run it down the seam.  You'll hit welds, most of the time the bust right away, other times they need persuasion.  Occasionally you'll bust out on top of the weld and need to get started on the backside of the weld to continue on.  I bet it takes me five minutes to remove a wing.  If I'm concerned with saving the a panel and front end panel it takes a little longer as I'll be careful not to stab through into them and want to keep the lips as good of shape as possible.  If you use a blade with a notch in it, it can be used to slice down the wing beside the lips to cut it away for easy access.  I'll do that where possible to save cutting wheels.  Next time I remove one I'll try to remember to do a writeup. 

[94touring]

On The spot weld driller= = make sure you're drilling either a Pilot Hole - for the Centering pin- or a good depression drill spot for it stay in - and not walk away = That's where i get most frustrated but that is quickly resolved  with a pre drill.
     I double down drills- Set up with a small bit for Piloting- and second for the Spot welder.  For me, most times when you start to see rust dust come around the spot driller- you're thru! Move to the next.

Air chisel= Dan can you shoot back a picture of your blade= I could bet will require a Tight and tidy end point.  With nice fast action to zip thru them

I've had really good luck with the spot weld driller with the point - but YES!  that little burst of dust, I've noticed that!  Music to my lungs...

He only has one magic air chisel and none of us want to see it.  No way does he really get that to work - he's just trying to make us all feel bad!

lol yea my magic air chisel  :D

Another great tool is a needle scaler.  Buy a heavy duty name brand and not harbor freight on this tool.  I will use this to remove undercoat or in the case of minidaves roof the old and cracking sealer in the gutters.  It's also great at finding rot as it will burst through rusty holes like no tomorrow yet is gentle on solid sheet metal. 

[94touring]

While I'm at it...buy an inline sander.  Both my needle scaler and sander are Ingersoll rand.  The sander will need lubed and oiled fairly often.  This makes life a zillion times easier, eespecially on a bare shell.  Buy 80 grit sheets on ebay in bulk and you can buy rolls of 320 and up for final sanding.  The last sanding prior to paint I do by hand with with wet 600-800 grit.  Buying sandpaper locally is usually a rip off as you'll use a ton of it. 

[MiniDave]

Note that you need a lot of air to run those tools....your basic 20 gallon home garage compressor isn't going to do it.

[94touring]

I actually used both on a 5 gallon pancake compressor!  Short burst but worked like a champ.  Still waiting on justin to help with the 120 gallon tank.