Susan's 63 Mini

Started by MiniDave, October 30, 2016, 04:08:23 PM

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MiniDave

Yep, I may know more tomorrow after I get to see the car and can question Susan about what happened....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

BruceK

 I neglected to mention it earlier, but I'm very glad to hear she's OK   
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

MiniDave

Interestingly, she drove and walked all over the area where it happened and could not find either the wheel or the brake caliper.

I may talk with her about a set of MiniSport 4 piston calipers, Don is really happy with the ones we put on his Pup
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

BruceK

 I don't want to cast aspersions on the so-called non-genuine (non-Rover) ball joints, but has anyone heard of any problems with them?  Are they just as good but cheaper?
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

MiniDave

I haven't had any issues with the MiniSpares brand, although the guys on the English forum pooh-pooh them mightily. The ones on Don's Pup have about 20K on them, haven't had to re-shim them or anything.

I have no idea what's on Susan's car or if they were set up properly. I assume they were, the car drove well when I drove it, but something definitely came loose or broke..... she said she's heard a noise for a while, but then it went away!  ::) :-[
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

#80
I use non gen ball joints with no problems.  Lap before hand and make them stiff to move with the palm of your hand (wearing gloves).  They will work in so they aren't sloppy but not so stiff they snap and break, which is what happens if over tightened.  Since hers had mileage it was likely not related to over tight.  The nut could have came loose from improper torque though and eventually jumped out.  Hard to say. 

tsumini

Where is the lower arm balljoint? losing balljoint puts wheel/hub in majorhurt. Can see wheel tearing out lug holes. Are wheel holes torn out?

MiniDave

I'll know more this evening, I'm going up to Topeka to the body shop that has it with Susan to assess the damage and figure out what parts to order
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

OK, just got home from the shop where Susan's Mini is going to be fixed. Near as we can tell the wheel literally pulled itself off the studs....the studs are loose in the hub, and all 4 wheel nuts are still on the studs. When the wheel came off it dropped and rode on the lower ball joint nut till it ground it off, then the ball joint dislocated from the lower control arm. Somehow when the wheel came off it broke the caliper off too which made two small inside out dents in the fender.

The lower control arm was ground down some too.....

So, he's ordered a new hub, bearings, lower control arm, new ball joints, brake caliper and lines, studs, nuts and a wheel, but repairs don't look like they'll be that bad. More as it happens.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

BruceK

Wow.  What about replacing all the same parts on the left side of the car, too?  For price of mind if for no other reason.
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

94touring

Maybe the first wheel failure I've ever heard of. 

BruceK

I remember reading that the very early Minis, like the first year or two, were experiencing a lot of  failures of the wheels (steel wheels of course because alloy wheels from Minis had not yet been invented).  This was because the design parameters were just to handle regular road use, but people soon started pushing the limits and driving them like we all drive Minis, and racing them too. Stronger steel wheels were then introduced by 1961 if I remember correctly. 
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

MPlayle

I seem to recall the early steel wheels Bruce is referring to as having the center portion riveted to the outer rim instead of welded.  The rivets would fail and the halves of the wheel separate.

For what is described as likely having happened to Susan's, the holes for the studs must have badly wallowed out for the nuts to have pulled through.  That makes me wonder if the wrong lug nuts were used for the wheels or the wrong wheels for the car.


MiniDave

#88
I thought the same thing about the nuts, but they were the correct ones.....she's running hubcaps and without casting aspersions, I think the lugs either just weren't tightened properly, or came loose and she drove it like that. She mentioned that when she was at the last dyno day Jesse mentioned that he thought she might have a bent right front wheel.....now I'm thinking it was just loose. These are not riveted wheels - I checked that too.....this is a 63 and it has 5 new wheels and tires.

Bruce - yes, the guy doing the work is going to look at all the wheels, hubs, studs etc and make sure they're all OK.

Hagerty is covering the repairs.

Moral of the story, check your nuts, boys!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

gr8kornholio

Will definitely be adding nut checks to the maintenance list.  Lube Oil Nuts. 
I am the GR8KORNHOLIO! Are you threatening me?

Saussie Aussie 1965 Australian MK1 Mini.
"Beavis" - 07 MY/MY MCS, B/MY Konig Daylites, JCW sideskirts, TSW springs, TSW lower rear control arms -- Exploring the country with new friends since 11/09.

MiniDave

Do not oil your nuts, if you do you'll stretch the threads on the studs and they'll strip. Clean and dry gives the correct torque....remember these only tighten to 45 ftlbs.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

gr8kornholio

Guess I should of been more clear on my statement.  I'm adding tightening nuts to the list for when I do the maintenance such as oil change and chassis lube.

Good safety tip though.
I am the GR8KORNHOLIO! Are you threatening me?

Saussie Aussie 1965 Australian MK1 Mini.
"Beavis" - 07 MY/MY MCS, B/MY Konig Daylites, JCW sideskirts, TSW springs, TSW lower rear control arms -- Exploring the country with new friends since 11/09.

BruceK

Quote from: MiniDave on September 19, 2018, 07:19:58 AM

Hagerty is covering the repairs.


That's good.  I would hope without any hassle.  I would expect at least that with an annual premium 3x higher than my current insurer.
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

tsumini

FWIW
Somehow I ended up with this wheel with cracks at lug area which I found after grit blast. Looks like impending failure.

gr8kornholio

Wow, those just look like large rivets added to the rim for the lugs.  But as stated earlier, these cars/wheels were never intended for purposes other than light city driving. 
I am the GR8KORNHOLIO! Are you threatening me?

Saussie Aussie 1965 Australian MK1 Mini.
"Beavis" - 07 MY/MY MCS, B/MY Konig Daylites, JCW sideskirts, TSW springs, TSW lower rear control arms -- Exploring the country with new friends since 11/09.

MiniDave

That pic nicely illustrates the difference in lug nuts used too, most alloy wheels use a 60* angle taper, these require a rounded end on the nut.

Yeah, that wheel was a wreck waiting to happen. I don't think that's what caused Susan's demise tho, I think her wheel was left loose for a long time....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

tsumini

Yeah that makes sense. If loose then wallowed out and then tearout.
In my photos there would have been some metal left under the lugnuts after any failure.

MiniDave

Susan's car is all back together and she's excited to drive it down from Lawrence to the BBQ next week.

I ordered a few bits for her, and she's hoping we can do some wrenching on it with her - she needs her heater hooked up, all it needs are some hoses and clamps which I ordered. She'll also need to install the bulkhead plate which she has.

Lastly, I ordered a new horn button for her and she'd like to get the horn working...so just a few bits to do.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

#98
So, when we last saw Susan it was at the RM BBQ in Ramona, where Michael Playle tried gamely to get her horn button to work, but after looking at it for a bit he decided we didn't have all the parts we needed, and he was right. So after WillieB found a link to the inner parts we were missing she ordered those.

The parts came in months ago but we finally got around to installing them today. It required dismantling the entire column, turn signal switch and all but once I got to look at it, it all made sense and it all went together well. Once I got it all back together we hooked the battery back up and tried it and it beeped! Twice. Then it stopped working.   8.gif

On a hunch I decided to get a test lead and check the horn itself -- Aha! dead. So we cruised up to Victoria British and for a whole $7.50 we had a new one, I put it in in the parking lot and Beep beep - it worked!   77.gif

So she's happy and her car is pretty well sorted now, starts and runs well, everything works including her heater that we hooked up last time. About the only thing it needs now is to have the speedo fixed as it and the odo are knackered. I told her we can pull it and send it off to Nisonger, and since she's not running the stock engine/trans/final drive they can recalibrate it so that it's actually useful. In the meantime she just uses her Garmin like I do, it makes a great speedo as well as navi system.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

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