This car belongs to a Lawrence British Car Club member, her husband spent years restoring it and unfortunately passed away just as he was finishing it up.
She's just now started driving the car, she also has an MGB and a Hyundai Veloster DD.
For some reason he decided to put a fuel cell in the trunk which takes up practically the whole thing, plus it's barely 5 gallons - fine for a race car but not so much for a car she'll want to take on longer drives. In fact, when she drove to our last big event at the Roasterie it took 4.8 gallons when she got home, too close for comfort! Plus too and also, there's no fuel gauge.....and even tho our fuel gauges aren't known for their precision, they're better than nothing! ;D
So, we ordered up a new 9 gallon tank from MiniSpares along with the fuel sender, strap, mounting bracket and all the parts I could thing of to do the install and I'll start on it tomorrow.
Here's a few pics.....
Ha, little baby fuel tank back there!
And interesting and nice looking Mini from what I can tell. I like the interior and the red exterior with the white grille. Since the K reg plate is from 1972 or so, it doesn't seem it was original to the car, but it's a nice addition.
Wow that car looks great. Unfortunate he didn't get to see it to completion but glad she is enjoying it.
Yep, it's a sad situation, but good for her for moving on with her life and enjoying the car the way he would have wanted her to.......
Today I pulled the fuel cell, I find it a lot easier to work in the boot if I take the boot lid off first.
Once the cell was out I trial fit the new tank and it fit as expected. Next I installed the hold down strap, fortunately where the top end of the retainer bracket bolts on there is already a welded nut, the other end bolts to a bracket. I ordered that bracket and primed it yesterday, today I welded it in and gave it a coat of black Rusty Oleum.
The only thing that might give me some trouble is the sending unit - I may wind up having to make a tool to install it. Right now it is almost impossible to turn it and lock the sending unit in. I did find that the sending unit wiring is still there, so I can wire it up once it's in.
The only thing I forgot to order was the gas cap, but Victoria British had the right one so that's good to go now.
Sure is a sharp looking car! (Why does my 9 gallon tank look bigger - or my boot look smaller? Must be the shiny-bright red paint vs my pit of despair black-hole boot cavity...)
For fear of vandalism, is it safe to use a non-locking cap these days?
Nice job. If I remember last sending unit I did with new rubber took a few calculated hits with a mallet to get it to fully twist on.
My Haynes is in the garage, and though I've got various repair manuals here on the 'puter, I can't really be bothered to check them right now. I believe they say to use a pair of crossed screwdrivers, though I can't imagine how - I've always just used a single (old and misshapen) screwdriver and tapped the locking ring into place by light hammer force.
John, I have a locking gascap but I think they're a PITA, so I just use a regular cap, never had a problem.
I was thinking of making a tool out of a piece of pipe, since there are three tabs I thought I could just cut three notches to fit the tabs and put a pipe cap on so I could press down while trying to turn it......I can always put a pipe wrench on it if I need more torque.
Failing that, a hammer and drift may be the next or last resort.
Since Susan's car is on the lift mine is just outside, some of the parents tonight have asked if it was a Mini under the car cover!
Wow, I've never seen one that tight! Does the ring fit without the gasket?
It's as if the seal ring is double thickness, I might have a sheet of 1/16" Buna lying around, I could make a new one. When I changed the sending unit on the racing green I had no issues getting it tight.
I believe I've got an extra couple o'seals in my box of fuel system spares, but sending one 'over there' might take a while to arrive. If I remember correctly, mine are only around 1/16", maybe 3/32".
Did you order the correct seal? ARA1502 (http://minispares.com/product/Classic/Fuel/Tanks,%20fittings/ARA1502.aspx?1304&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/ara1502.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)
Yep, it's the right number, but this one is thicker than 1/16"
Edit: just went and measured it - 1/8" thick.
I'll try to get up to the garage tomorrow and see what I've got. I ordered 3 when I installed my new sending unit, so I should be able to find a spare and measure it if you're interested. I believe mine are thinner, but not 100% certain.
I should also have a set of late-model rubber front subframe mounts (lower tower rubber) KGE100060 (http://minispares.com/product/Classic/Body/Subframes/Fixings_mountings/KGE100060.aspx?030801&ReturnUrl=/shop/classic/Body/Subframes/Fixings~mountings.aspx%7CBack%20to%20shop) that I'll never use and could be passed on to someone who could use them, for example, Dan's shop.
It sounds like you have two seals stuck together. When I converted the Tahiti Blue Mini (Flur) to carb and put a new sender in the replacement tank, the new seal was only about 1/16" thick and everything went together with just a few taps to lock the ring in place.
I thought that might be the case too, but it's clearly one piece....
I can always make one, so no issue there.
Tank is now in, all I have to do is hook up the fuel line and vent and see if it leaks - I did have to make a gasket for the sender, that one just would not work. Hope mine is gasoline tight......
I also will have to modify some of the wiring for the LP light, it hooks up behind the tank so I'll have to lengthen the wires a bit and the fuel gauge doesn't work - could be it's not hooked up on the gauge end.
So far so good.
Oh and a pic for John showing how much boot area the tank takes up - feel better now? ;D
Oh, and yes, that is a slight bit of damage in the freshly painted body at the right tail light.....she was backing down her curved driveway and hit her other car..... ::) once I'm done it will go straight to the body shop that painted it to get repaired again
All done......turned out well I think. Still haven't tried to fix the gauge, it's hotter'n hell here today and muggy. I'll pull the cluster later and see what I can learn, but I might be done for now.
Yeah, it looks sharp and I feel better now. Thanks -
One thing that I did when I installed my larger tank was use a couple of 4" sections cut from a bicycle tire tube which I then opened up to form a single layer and inserted them between the fuel tank and the metal strap to prevent rattling and to protect the tank from strap-skuffs.
She was very happy with it, and she and a friend hauled it back to Lawrence on his car trailer so she wouldn't have to drive it at night, even tho all the lights work just fine.....I think they just dodged the T-Storms that rolled thru last night too.
I drove the car around the block and there were a number of revelations - the brakes need adjusting, you have to pump it once to get a full pedal and the handbrake doesn't hold. I adjusted the choke a little bit - on full choke it would rev to what sounded like 5k (no tach) so I backed that down a bunch. It still needs tuning and carb work....
I never did get the gas gauge to work - it reads full all the time, but then I don't know how the front end is wired, she has a guy who did the wiring going to go thru it this weekend - it could be all that's wrong is the wires are reversed at the gauge.
The car rode so nicely - now I see what fresh cones feel like, and I almost wish I'd gone that way instead of coilovers.....the motor in this car is a well built 1330 and it goes like stink....she'll have a lot of fun with this once it's all sorted out!
She said she prefers driving this over her MGB too.
Nice one -
Did you ask her to join our online group?
Yes, she is registered here but hasn't posted......I sent her a link to this thread.
Keep her updated on the "Spring Drive" thread as well.
Yep, she's planning to go with us......
MiniDave
I just changed my fuel sender. The gasket I received miked .121. The whole thing went back together very easy. I did remove the boot cover , it made the job so much easier.
Regards
towjoe 77.gif
Susan's car is back in my shop today, I'm building her a tow bar so she can flat tow the Mini with her Hyundai Veloster on our Texas adventure in March.
I decided to build hers different than Dan's version in the DIY, he uses a piece of 1 1/2" angle iron, with the center necked down slightly so the angle will sit over the mounting holes and still pass thru the lic plate brackets. On this car those brackets have been repaired and will not let the angle thru, so I decided to build it similar to the one I built for Buzz, which will sit outside the brackets. We used it to tow WillieB's car down from Omaha and it worked perfectly so I know it will haul hers too.
I used 2" X 1/4" angle for extra strength, and black pipe for the spacers with it's extra wall thickness and strength. I welded the spacers to the angle for even more solidness and used 1/2" grade 8 bolts to pull it all together. It will clear the lic plate so she won't have to remove it. Easy two bolt install and removal....
Tomorrow I'll take another run at the carb and see if I can straighten it out and get it to idle. I'm also installing a speedo cable and going to see if I can get her fuel tank sending unit to work, then she'll be mostly ready for our trip.....she said she couldn't get her heater to work, I don't know if she just didn't know how to work it or if the valve is stuck, so I'll check it out.
Looking Good Dave! Nice, you cannot beat the price with 20% off coupon.
Regards
towjoe 77.gif
Yep, I think it's a great deal, and it works perfectly.....I also got mine with 20% off!
How are you feeling, Joe?
Yeah can't really fit a bar behind those old style front plate brackets.
NOW you tell me, after I spent hours cutting up 1 1/2" angle, grinding on it and trying to fit it yesterday! ::)
So, I think you need to amend your DIY to include this info, and the fact that you need to narrow the angle iron in the center so it will line up with the mounting holes and so on.
Also, is it just on the pick up that the outer edges of the lower valance cut upward just past the subframe mounting holes? Cause this one goes all the way across, but I noticed the difference on the pick ups.....
(http://www.azmengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/IMG_5550.jpg)
My 1975 does not go all the way.
Why do we put the bar across to the hitch mounts instead of simply bolting them to the subframe the way Willie B did it?
Regarding the front valance: the early MK-Is had the full length valance (per Susan's) and the later Minis (I think the transition was with the MK-IIs) had the stepped valance to permit more airflow to the front brakes.
Regarding the tow brackets: the cross bar is to provide extra strength and prevent flex of the tow bar. The one I had fail was mounted like Willie-B did his, but I had mine spacered out a bit more and they flexed enough to have the grade 8 bolts bend and shear. If up close to the valance (as was the case on my first Moke) then the cross bar is not necessary. Harder to get as close to the valance on the Saloons due to the curvatures in the panel.
I would absolutely recommend a cross bar no matter how close to the valance you get it much safer set up. At one time I wanted to bring an affordable classic mini tow package to market but... to make something meeting reasonable standards the cost would be high and involve adding reinforcing brackets to the sub frame we gave up figuring most people would balk at the cost.
When viewed in a FEA program the crossbar takes about 30% of the load off of the inside bolt in a turn FEA results show a guaranteed failure without a bar just a matter of when. Even bolted tight against the frame the frame failed without a cross bar.(millions of cycles so for most of us non issue)
With a cross bar it's fair but still a fail for a marketable item. However it's good enough for how far/often most classic mini owners tow.
Something to keep in mind also is that the bar needs to be as close to level as possible to prevent upward or downward forces on the mounting bolts on acceleration and stopping. A 4" upslope to the tow vehicle hitch showed failure in only 2000 cycles of normal stop and go driving and immediate failure in one panic stop the bolts sheared and the mini subframe broke. With a level bar stresses were acceptable for millions of cycles and panic stops were not a problem. The failure test was repeated outside of FEA and done with a actual mini sub frame and a hydraulic simulator same result.
So keep those bars level and replace the mounting hardware periodically and you should be fine.
Dave, welding the spacers to the crossbar was a very good idea makes a huge difference.
I believe in the idea of overbuilding and I think this one will work well.
I also solved the fuel gauge problem, turns out it's a bad gauge. I had one in an old speedo, took it out and hooked it into the circuit and used a coat hanger to raise the float in the tank and it all worked perfectly. Glad it wasn't anything I had done or not done......
I put a new speedo cable in and hooked it to the speedo first, then used my drill to turn the cable and the speedo seems to work fine, so I went ahead and hooked it to the transmission. We'll see when I drive it if that fixed her problem, but the old cable was not broken and didn't seem rough or anything.
Oh, and I found out why she didn't have any heat, a picture's worth a thousand words..... ;D
I had originally made a gasket for the sending unit as I just could not get the one from MiniSpares to work, it was too thick to get the lock ring to even start. I mic'd it and just as Towjoe said it was .120 thick. My gasket didn't work, it seeped slightly so I had her order a new seal, it was the same thickness as the other one so I decided to attack the problem from a different angle....I took the lock ring to the grinder and thinned out the starting part of the ramp so it would fit under the locking tabs, then tapped it around with a small hammer and punch and it went right in. Lesson learned.
That's interesting about keeping the tow bar (to the tow vehicle I assume) level, when we towed WillieB's car it had a bit of an upward slope to my Audi, I'll have to check it on the Clubman once I get the new hitch installed next week. That's why BruceK's friend modified his, to get it to sit level and to reinforce it.
Dave,
When you tested the new speedometer cable on the speedometer, which way did you have the drill spinning (forward or reverse)?
I need to test the speedometer on the Moke. I have a new cable to try. I would like to confirm my issue is the cable (as according to the Big-Al - the most immediate previous owner of the Moke) and not the speedometer.
Reverse, IIRC.
Thanks! If I get a chance, I will give that a try.
Quote from: MiniDave on February 05, 2017, 09:19:16 AM
Also, is it just on the pick up that the outer edges of the lower valance cut upward just past the subframe mounting holes? Cause this one goes all the way across, but I noticed the difference on the pick ups.....
That valance panel changed for all Minis about 1964. Just the early Mk. I cars had the full coverage. My '65 Traveller had the cut-outs. The change was made to help with brake cooling.
Edit: Now I see that Michael also answered this.
Quote from: MiniDave on February 05, 2017, 05:52:53 PM
I believe in the idea of overbuilding and I think this one will work well.
Why not add the crossbar to draw a line across the middle of the "A"? I guess you'd lose the nice fold-up feature for easy storage. But then again, you'd also lose the not-so-nice fold-up feature for towing, if you know what I mean.
The next thing I wanted to sort out was the inop fuel gauge, nothing more disconcerting than not having either a working gas gauge or an odometer to gauge how many miles you can go on a tank of gas, especially when you're driving a new to you car and between towns 40 miles or more apart.
After a bunch of testing I decided the problem was the gauge itself, I rooted around in my old parts stash and found a gauge, hooked it up to the battery and to my considerable surprise it worked! Next I hooked it up to the sender and raised the arm up - it worked there too. So all (!) I had to do was remove the old speedo head and swap out the gauge. Once that was done since the tank was still empty from fixing the sending unit seal, I used a coat hanger to raise the sender arm and it works. Result!
I also installed an aux power port so she can use a Garmin and charge her phone. Since this car doesn't have the original engine or transmission I have no idea how accurate the speedo will be - or that will work at all - I changed the cable and tested it with my drill and it works, but we'll see what it does from here. She wanted one that was discrete and I found one at O'Reilys that has a cover, you can barely see it under the dash on the left side.
The last thing I need to sort out on this trip to the shop is the carb. The engine is a built 1330 running an HIF44 and I have no idea what needle he used, so I'm just guestimating for now. She said she had to use the choke sometimes or it would idle down and die at a light, so I'll see if I can smooth it out some. The engine's just getting broken in so I might have to fiddle with it again after it does some miles.
More as it happens....
Drove Susan's Mini up to her in Lawrence and it was an interesting drive, up to about 40-50 mph the speedo worked fine, any faster and it wanted to go all the way around to the other side! Need to send this one in to be repaired or something.....it was a good 10 mph fast at 45 mph too......at least she can plug her Garmin in and use it for a speedo.
I think the car has 3:1 diff gears as it easily ran 70 mph - it doesn't have a tach so I was only going by the engine sound but it didn't sound like it was near as wound up as mine does at that speed. The engine was strong but the carb still isn't right, so a friend will pull the pot and see what needle it has - the carb is brandy new so I'm sure it's just a matter of getting the right needle in it and then getting it set correctly. The engine is STRONG tho....really likes to rev.....
Other than that and needing an alignment, the car drove well. Like most all Minis it has it's share of rattles and such....
Oh, and even tho I had the hot water valve on the head turned "on" and there seemed to be plenty of heat going thru the pipe I got no heat in the car, need to check into that too. It might not be an issue in Texas in the spring, but on the highway in 32* Kansas, it gets mighty cold in there!
Gas gauge worked perfectly tho! 4.gif
It was fun to put some miles on another car if nothing else than to see how it drove compared to mine.
The car has a K&N air filter and I'm told those are the best for getting performance out of the engine, but I would happily trade for a standard air filter like I had on Buzz - those suckers are LOUD!
Remind Susan that the car needs to be in neutral with the parking brake off while towing. And do not get in a place that would require backing up.
I'm planning to go up and do a little tuning on her carb, then once that's done I'll show her how to hook it up and we'll go on a few short drives.
Thanks for the reminders...... 4.gif
Hi Dave ,
I put a small 2" channel across to strengthen side to side.
Check my No Christmas in the lounge.
Regards
towjoe 77.gif
Where did you add that Joe? I have one built into the part that attaches to the Mini?
Hi Dave
Behind the two standoff for front plate.
I have a video to move the plate out of the way on BMW Minis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqd4Sy-4-tA
If you need the dimension of the channel it is: 3/8 x 3/8 x 1/8 ".
Regards
Joe 77.gif
Sunday after the event at Clancy's raceshop I headed over to Susan's to see if I could get her car to run right, I had already found out which needle they put in and it seemed to be fine for this application, so I was convinced it was just a matter of getting the jet height set right to get the mixture in line.
I noticed when I had it running at my shop that it was smoking pretty badly - blue smoke - and I don't know if the rings are stuck due to the engine sitting for a long time after it was built or what, but I knew it needed an oil change as the oil was black and nasty, so I did that first.
Incidentally, one of Kent Prather's (engine builder) top tips had to do with oil.....he says the race oils like Valvoline VR1 and even Brad Penn that I use don't contain any detergents like modern oils do, and for this reason are not the best thing to use in vintage engines, although they do have the zinc needed to keep the cam lubricated. What he does is buy a special 100% zinc additive, and runs the cheapest OReilys 20W50 on the shelf, then simply adds the appropriate amount of the zinc/phosphorous additive. He also said you need about 1500ppm of zinc, and that VR1 only has 1250 - which is borderline. The Brad Penn has 1500ppm, fwiw. However, I think the short drain intervals we use mitigate that quite a bit, but I'm going to look into the zinc additive he uses if nothing else just to save some money, especially on the engines I'm building and running in. The owner can then use whatever he likes......
So I changed the oil and then on warmup fiddled with the mixture, as the engine warmed I could tell I was getting it into range so we took a couple of screwdrivers and headed to the nearby highway. After about 20 minutes of driving and tuning I got it running really sweet! She has a strong engine too!
That was the last thing I needed to do to the car to get it ready for our Texas trip, later she took it to a friends to have the alignment set, all she has left to do is hook it to the tow car and do a few practice miles as she's never towed anything before. It's still smoking more than I like but it runs really well, so I'm hoping if it is stuck rings they'll free up after running some more.
Now she needs to put some miles on the Mini, now that it runs properly!
Edit: I also checked into why there was no heat in the car - the matrix is not hooked up to the engine! Guess he figured to only drive it in warm weather, but we can fix that after the Texas trip.
Hmm so I guess I'll stop buying vr1 then.
Well, I checked the price on VR1 at Autozone and it was $6.99/qt, that's more than I pay for Brad Penn, but let me look into this additive first......still Kent swears by it and his engines last, so there has to be something to what he says.
Here's a history on Prather Racing.....they also do Mazdas - both Miatas and rotaries......
http://www.pratherracing.com/history.shtml (http://www.pratherracing.com/history.shtml)
Lucas zinc additive on ebay is 6 16oz bottles for 66 bucks shipped. Only takes about 5 oz or so to get 1500ppm.
After speaking with KC recently, I learned from him that a recent engine exhibited a bit of unsatisfactory wear from running in, and after checking the big barrel of Millers oil at his local dyno, it had a thick layer of sediment at the bottom. It was surmised that the zink additive that came out of solution. He'll not be using Millers again too soon.
So, last week, I sent KC a bottle of Cam Shield ZDDP additive from my stock for him to use on his new engine.
http://www.cam-shield.com/ (http://www.cam-shield.com/)
I add it to the big green can of Castrol Classic XL 20W50.
And a free sticker! ;D
Perfect for my sticker wall.
Stickers are cool... but "Only takes about 5 oz or so to get 1500ppm." seems like an awful lot.
vs.
Cam Shield, from the How-to-Use (http://www.cam-shield.com/acatalog/How_to_use.html) page:
"Approximately 1600 ppm Zinc for normal operation of muscle cars (add ¼ ounce Cam-shield™ to each quart of engine oil)"
I didn't get a sticker though.
Suppose it depends how concentrated it is. I'll add this to my monthly ebay purchases.
Quote from: MiniDave on February 20, 2017, 07:52:41 AM
Incidentally, one of Kent Prather's (engine builder) top tips had to do with oil.....he says the race oils like Valvoline VR1 and even Brad Penn that I use don't contain any detergents like modern oils do, and for this reason are not the best thing to use in vintage engines, although they do have the zinc needed to keep the cam lubricated. What he does is buy a special 100% zinc additive, and runs the cheapest OReilys 20W50 on the shelf, then simply adds the appropriate amount of the zinc/phosphorous additive. He also said you need about 1500ppm of zinc, and that VR1 only has 1250 - which is borderline. The Brad Penn has 1500ppm, fwiw.
And me with a fresh unopened case of Brad Penn sitting in the garage. :(
We talked further.....there is nothing wrong with using the Brad Penn or VR1, his point was you can simply buy modern inexpensive oil and add the zinc/phosphorus and save a bunch of money, and get the benefit of the detergents too.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Remember, our drain intervals are pretty short compared to modern cars - 3000 miles or 1 year max....that means the detergents are less needed than if the car ran 7-10K between changes like modern cars.
The main problem with modern oils is the lack of zinc, not the oil itself.....adding that gives you what you need. Zinc is not friendly to cat converters, that's why it has gone away.....
I use royal purple in the rx7. Here is data on one line they sell.
10W30 Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street) – 66,211 PSI
Zinc: 1774 ppm Phos: 1347 ppm Moly: 189 ppm
Too bad Susan won't be able to join us on this run, she says her car is running well, she had the alignment done and has finally been able to put a few miles on it, but her health will keep her homebound this time.
She's been finishing the little details that her husband didn't get to before he passed, like door cards and other interior bits, she put the finish panel on the inside of the boot lid, which turned out terrific. Slowly but surely it's coming around...
Not sure where the no detergent myth comes from vr1 has detergent in lower levels to prevent foaming at sustained high rpm also good for use in shared gearbox like a mini as that can cause foaming as well. The zinc in a bottle additives may not stay in suspension or blend well enough to even work at all, stick with vr1 or Joe Gibbs etc. We're not oil chemist to know if additives will blend properly. Except for Richard1 maybe he'll chime in.
As Richard has said more than a few times in that other place, the data is in the MSDSs that are available for all the oils. They are not easy to find always and they do need some sort of oil chemist to explain the different components. Richard has done so in his articles, good reading for a cold wet day perhaps...
Terry
Update - bad news, good news
Susan crashed her Mini Sunday on K-10 highway not too far from her home. I'm not sure exactly what happened but John and I are going over to see it tomorrow afternoon and assess the damage - it's not too bad. Near as we can figure from a couple of pics she took with her cell phone is a wheel broke - the center axle nut is still there, the lug nuts are still in place and the upper ball joint seems to be intact, however the brake caliper broke off and the lower ball joint is either broken or simply came undone - can't tell from the pic.....don't know if that happened somehow as the disc hit the ground or what.
Good news, she was shaken up by it but not hurt.
Here are the pics John sent me....
Wheel busted, wow!
Edit: perhaps the ball joint or tie rod broke/came undone and snapped the wheel when it went a different direction than the car?
Anything is possible, but she's running steel wheels so I'm surprised it broke at all. And, what broke the caliper off like that? Crazy stuff.....
Yeah breaking a wheel going straight and level is pretty odd. I'd think if it were cracked or loose, you'd feel it shaking, and if loose the studs would break before the wheel would. I broke a tie rod on a work truck once going through a job site when I hit a tree stump hidden in mud. It was an abrupt no steering and wheels pointed different directions moment. In mud I just slid, but on pavement going down the highway you'd be majority up the creek.
Looks like the caliper is made of a cast metal. Any chance it cracked with the last tightening which eventually made it give way? That'd be a massive chunk inside the wheel that could then rip the bottom ball joint off and in a fight for space blast the wheel out?
Just speculation based on the pic of the caliper bolt area. Seen a lot of cast metals crack and separate at the bolt points. Grant it was mostly cheap cast metal outdoor furniture, but figure same principals.
Glad she is ok and hopefully the damage is fixable.
Quote from: MiniDave on September 17, 2018, 11:33:32 AM
And, what broke the caliper off like that?
Blunt force trama maybe, or like Mark says, bad casting. They don't exactly make these parts all that great!
Maybe I should have splurged for the authentic calipers instead of the mini spares copies. Anyone else make a 7.5" caliper?
Answered my own question. KAD makes one that will fit the 7.5" disc. Pricey, unless this happens.
Could also be a wheel failing. As you know, it only takes about 45 lbs ft to tighten - half of what is used on other cars. So that could have cracked from being over torqued by some gorilla over the past decades.
True, and if the wheel broke at the hub while the car was moving in a straight line it would move toward the rear of the car, grabbing the caliper and probably rotating it down to remove the lower ball joint.
Quote from: gr8kornholio on September 17, 2018, 12:06:56 PM
Maybe I should have splurged for the authentic calipers instead of the mini spares copies. Anyone else make a 7.5" caliper?
Answered my own question. KAD makes one that will fit the 7.5" disc. Pricey, unless this happens.
Minisport 4 pot alloys. I want to say mine are half the weight of stock 7.5s.
I'm seeing what looks like a spacer on the front hub for offsetting the wheel outwards?
Usually those are mounted with any recessed area to the inside, so that the flat surface is against the wheel. If it is indeed a spacer and was mounted the current way, it could also have allowed flex and/or uneven pressure at the surface contact with the wheel that could have contributed.
I would need to check the position of the caliper, but the sudden drop of losing the wheel could have resulted in the caliper striking pavement and breaking.
Something also shot off going high and forward inside the wheel well and caused an outward dent/hole just to the rear from the mid-line of the headlight.
Yep, I may know more tomorrow after I get to see the car and can question Susan about what happened....
I neglected to mention it earlier, but I'm very glad to hear she's OK
Interestingly, she drove and walked all over the area where it happened and could not find either the wheel or the brake caliper.
I may talk with her about a set of MiniSport 4 piston calipers, Don is really happy with the ones we put on his Pup
I don't want to cast aspersions on the so-called non-genuine (non-Rover) ball joints, but has anyone heard of any problems with them? Are they just as good but cheaper?
I haven't had any issues with the MiniSpares brand, although the guys on the English forum pooh-pooh them mightily. The ones on Don's Pup have about 20K on them, haven't had to re-shim them or anything.
I have no idea what's on Susan's car or if they were set up properly. I assume they were, the car drove well when I drove it, but something definitely came loose or broke..... she said she's heard a noise for a while, but then it went away! ::) :-[
I use non gen ball joints with no problems. Lap before hand and make them stiff to move with the palm of your hand (wearing gloves). They will work in so they aren't sloppy but not so stiff they snap and break, which is what happens if over tightened. Since hers had mileage it was likely not related to over tight. The nut could have came loose from improper torque though and eventually jumped out. Hard to say.
Where is the lower arm balljoint? losing balljoint puts wheel/hub in majorhurt. Can see wheel tearing out lug holes. Are wheel holes torn out?
I'll know more this evening, I'm going up to Topeka to the body shop that has it with Susan to assess the damage and figure out what parts to order
OK, just got home from the shop where Susan's Mini is going to be fixed. Near as we can tell the wheel literally pulled itself off the studs....the studs are loose in the hub, and all 4 wheel nuts are still on the studs. When the wheel came off it dropped and rode on the lower ball joint nut till it ground it off, then the ball joint dislocated from the lower control arm. Somehow when the wheel came off it broke the caliper off too which made two small inside out dents in the fender.
The lower control arm was ground down some too.....
So, he's ordered a new hub, bearings, lower control arm, new ball joints, brake caliper and lines, studs, nuts and a wheel, but repairs don't look like they'll be that bad. More as it happens.
Wow. What about replacing all the same parts on the left side of the car, too? For price of mind if for no other reason.
Maybe the first wheel failure I've ever heard of.
I remember reading that the very early Minis, like the first year or two, were experiencing a lot of failures of the wheels (steel wheels of course because alloy wheels from Minis had not yet been invented). This was because the design parameters were just to handle regular road use, but people soon started pushing the limits and driving them like we all drive Minis, and racing them too. Stronger steel wheels were then introduced by 1961 if I remember correctly.
I seem to recall the early steel wheels Bruce is referring to as having the center portion riveted to the outer rim instead of welded. The rivets would fail and the halves of the wheel separate.
For what is described as likely having happened to Susan's, the holes for the studs must have badly wallowed out for the nuts to have pulled through. That makes me wonder if the wrong lug nuts were used for the wheels or the wrong wheels for the car.
I thought the same thing about the nuts, but they were the correct ones.....she's running hubcaps and without casting aspersions, I think the lugs either just weren't tightened properly, or came loose and she drove it like that. She mentioned that when she was at the last dyno day Jesse mentioned that he thought she might have a bent right front wheel.....now I'm thinking it was just loose. These are not riveted wheels - I checked that too.....this is a 63 and it has 5 new wheels and tires.
Bruce - yes, the guy doing the work is going to look at all the wheels, hubs, studs etc and make sure they're all OK.
Hagerty is covering the repairs.
Moral of the story, check your nuts, boys!
Will definitely be adding nut checks to the maintenance list. Lube Oil Nuts.
Do not oil your nuts, if you do you'll stretch the threads on the studs and they'll strip. Clean and dry gives the correct torque....remember these only tighten to 45 ftlbs.
Guess I should of been more clear on my statement. I'm adding tightening nuts to the list for when I do the maintenance such as oil change and chassis lube.
Good safety tip though.
Quote from: MiniDave on September 19, 2018, 07:19:58 AM
Hagerty is covering the repairs.
That's good. I would hope without any hassle. I would expect at least that with an annual premium 3x higher than my current insurer.
FWIW
Somehow I ended up with this wheel with cracks at lug area which I found after grit blast. Looks like impending failure.
Wow, those just look like large rivets added to the rim for the lugs. But as stated earlier, these cars/wheels were never intended for purposes other than light city driving.
That pic nicely illustrates the difference in lug nuts used too, most alloy wheels use a 60* angle taper, these require a rounded end on the nut.
Yeah, that wheel was a wreck waiting to happen. I don't think that's what caused Susan's demise tho, I think her wheel was left loose for a long time....
Yeah that makes sense. If loose then wallowed out and then tearout.
In my photos there would have been some metal left under the lugnuts after any failure.
Susan's car is all back together and she's excited to drive it down from Lawrence to the BBQ next week.
I ordered a few bits for her, and she's hoping we can do some wrenching on it with her - she needs her heater hooked up, all it needs are some hoses and clamps which I ordered. She'll also need to install the bulkhead plate which she has.
Lastly, I ordered a new horn button for her and she'd like to get the horn working...so just a few bits to do.
So, when we last saw Susan it was at the RM BBQ in Ramona, where Michael Playle tried gamely to get her horn button to work, but after looking at it for a bit he decided we didn't have all the parts we needed, and he was right. So after WillieB found a link to the inner parts we were missing she ordered those.
The parts came in months ago but we finally got around to installing them today. It required dismantling the entire column, turn signal switch and all but once I got to look at it, it all made sense and it all went together well. Once I got it all back together we hooked the battery back up and tried it and it beeped! Twice. Then it stopped working. 8.gif
On a hunch I decided to get a test lead and check the horn itself -- Aha! dead. So we cruised up to Victoria British and for a whole $7.50 we had a new one, I put it in in the parking lot and Beep beep - it worked! 77.gif
So she's happy and her car is pretty well sorted now, starts and runs well, everything works including her heater that we hooked up last time. About the only thing it needs now is to have the speedo fixed as it and the odo are knackered. I told her we can pull it and send it off to Nisonger, and since she's not running the stock engine/trans/final drive they can recalibrate it so that it's actually useful. In the meantime she just uses her Garmin like I do, it makes a great speedo as well as navi system.