Audi Air Bag Suspension

[MiniDave]

I have a 2004 Audi Allroad, reputed to be the worst Audi ever built and maybe even the worst car ever built. I don't know what all the hoopla is about, as mine has been relatively problem free, although I do see the potential for real expense, especially if you can't work on it yourself or don't have a competent indy shop nearby. Changing the cam belt for instance is pretty much a weekend's work as you have to remove the front of the car and then the front of the engine! If a turbo fails (there are two of them) it's an engine out job. Same for a transmission replacement......

One area I have had problems with is the air bag suspension. My car only has 75K on it, but I replaced the front airbags in 2010 with some good ol made in the USA replacements - that have a lifetime warranty (they never say who's lifetime do they? but I digress...) 2 years ago I had to take them up on their warranty and they made it fairly painless, you give them a credit card, they send you a new assembly, when you send the old one back they refund your credit card - they don't pay labor and that's one area where I save some money as I can do it myself. It's not easy, but it's not all that hard either. The hardest part for most guys who want to DIY this job is the pinch bolt that holds the two (yes two) upper ball joints into the upright. For some it rusts in place and others just can't seem to get it out even tho it turns. When I did the first replacement mine came out OK, but I made sure to grease the livin you know what out of it before I put it back in - and I had no issue getting the bolt out to replace the right side in 2015.

A few days ago I noticed the left front low in the morning so again I called the company - I got the same guy who handled my last warranty replacement -  and 3 days later I had a new bag to install, so today I tackled it.

The procedure is fairly straightforward, remove the wheel, lower shock bolt, pinchbolt and the three top mount bolts, cut the airline off tight to the fitting and out it comes. Take the top hat off, release the top bearing, slip off the old bag, clean and lube everything and put it all back. Once it's all back together  I started the car and reset the ride height (it's adjustable thru 4 heights, and it automatically sets itself according to roadspeed too), then drove it around the block to settle everything in again, and now I have it sitting in the drive to see if it's going to hold.

The whole job takes about 2 1/2 hours and doesn't affect the alignment, and no real special tools are required.

She should be good to go for another 5-7 years, although they claim the new bags are significantly improved and should last "forever". We'll see......

[Willie_B]

Looks kinda clean under there. Must be all the rain you guys have been having!

[MiniDave]

75K in 13 years, but they do salt the roads up here......

[flipstah]

These bags have a tendency to leak. They improved the design in later years.

It's more rubbing of the bag and the salt dries it up. Most people ditch it and put coils or change it to aftermarket bags.

Sincerely,

VW guy

[MiniDave]

A lot of folks do change out to coil overs, but I like the smooth ride that the air suspension gives. Plus one time we got 14" of snow and Rose HAD to get to work (she works for a Dr. answering service) and being able to raise the car up that 8 extra inches allowed her to get out of our neighborhood and onto the main roads that had been plowed, she couldn't have done it otherwise as the car would have high centered on the snow.

As long as they keep honoring the warranty I guess I'll keep changing them when they fail. If it's only every 5-7 years, that's not too bad.

[flipstah]

A lot of folks do change out to coil overs, but I like the smooth ride that the air suspension gives. Plus one time we got 14" of snow and Rose HAD to get to work (she works for a Dr. answering service) and being able to raise the car up that 8 extra inches allowed her to get out of our neighborhood and onto the main roads that had been plowed, she couldn't have done it otherwise as the car would have high centered on the snow.

As long as they keep honoring the warranty I guess I'll keep changing them when they fail. If it's only every 5-7 years, that's not too bad.

I love air suspension. I installed an aftermarket set on my Golf R, because, we're weird.

Now I drive an E550 with AIRMATIC suspension and you can't beat it. It's like driving on a road lined with pound cake.

[MiniDave]

Not quite a week now since I installed the second front air bag and I have to say it's working well, in fact - when I replaced them both in 2010 I noticed a clunk in the front end that I'd never heard before but I could never find anything loose or wrong. After I changed out the right bag in 2015 I thought the clunk had gone away on the right side but I wasn't sure....now that the left one is also the new design I'm sure of it - that annoying clunk is completely gone!

I think the car drives as well as it ever has and I think this new gen bag is a definite improvement over the last gen. I thought the front end always felt kind of mushy on the last set, now it feels solid and planted but still rides extremely smooth. I'm pretty happy with them at this point!

And I appreciate that they stand behind their warranty.  4.gif

[MiniDave]

If it ain't one thing it's another......

Rose doesn't drive her Audi a whole lot, so about every 3 months I have to charge the battery - her trips consist of 3 miles of stop and start as she travels from one shopping mall to another across the street. Anyway, I charged it up a few days ago because it didn't start and then today it was dead again!

I was afraid it might be the alternator as those are spendy - at least from Audi - $542! not only that but putting it in is one bitch kitty. Needless to say I was not a happy camper. So this afternoon I charged it back up yet again so I could do a draw test and sure enough it was pulling almost 2 amps - like a dome light or glovebox light left on. I couldn't find anything to pin it on, and was just about to start pulling fuses when Rose pulled off the hat that we cover the Garmin with - guess what? Yep, it was on.

The one in my car is wired to the ignition so it goes off when the car does but hers is wired hot.

I like an easy fix, but I like not having problems even more......  ::)

[MiniDave]

Guess what I had to do a couple weeks ago? Yep, another damn airbag went flat on the Audi. This happened while I was in the Hospital in late January and I only got around to fixing it a few weeks ago. Arnott has been good about replacing them, they even pay shipping both ways (they always want the old one returned) but frankly I'm getting tired of it......this is the 5th Arnott bag I've installed on our Audi and the last one was only last August - and that's the one that's gone flat.

I think if I have another one go down I'm going to ditch the bags and simply install springs, several mfrs make kits to do this using "Bill Stein" shocks and coilovers, since you have to change the entire upright to use factory A6 spring setups. They cost about the same as a set of bags, but that would end my suspension problems. Interesting that it's always a front bag to fails to, the rears are OEM.

I can now change a front air bag in less than an hour, and since I've had them in and out so frequently all the nuts and bolts are well lubricated and easy to undo. Still a PITA as it makes the wife unhappy when she can't use her car, and we have to wait for them to ship us a new bag.

As for the no starting problem, it still happens tho infrequently and I've had it to the shop twice and they can't find anything wrong so our solution was to buy one of these new fangled lithium ion battery starter packs and she keeps that in the car, so if it happens and I'm out of town she's not stranded.

[BruceK]

Ouch!  That is getting really old, isn't it?   

After my wife's troublesome and expensive-to-keep-running Volvo, my family has sworn off European cars (except for my Mini/MINI of course).    I love the compliant driving feel and handing of a Euro car, but their piss-poor reliability and over-complicated, over-engineered designs make them poor choices for regular driving duties IMO. For example, just to change the cabin filter on that Volvo I
had to remove a lot of the dash panels AND extract the entire drive-by-wire throttle pedal assembly just to gain access to the filter cover.   Japanese and Korean cars may lack soul, but they are more reliable and generate a lot less headaches and heartburn.   A fair trade off I say.   

Ever wish you have kept the Lexus?

[MiniDave]

No, I actually really like the Audi too, the Lexus was a great car, very reliable and trouble free but like you say, the Audi is just that much better. Besides, she likes having the wagon.

This is the 5th Arnott bag I've installed in the front of the Audi!

[jeff10049]

Some are switching to a6 air suspension I guess a double bellows bag sits on top of the shock more reliable and better handling they say. apparently an easy swap from what I hear.
Might be worth checking into if you want to maintain the adjustability of the air.

[MiniDave]

So, all the airbags are still holding up!  77.gif

I didn't really expect one to fail but since we're leaving town I figured it might crap one just because..... ::)

Today I changed the oil and filter - it's a real process when you don't have a lift, and since the Bugeye is on mine I had to do it out in the driveway - in the 98* heat and million % humidity. The only difficult part is getting the undertray off and back on again - it's in 2 pieces and has a total of 16 fasteners holding it on the car, and of course those are hard to get to and get into place and tighten with only one hand, while the other tries to hold the damn tray in place. The good news is I only have do this once a year....I used to do it at school, and up on a lift it's easy peasy but in the driveway it's a wee bit more challenging.

A lot of people simply leave them off but I figure if the MFR went to this much trouble and expense to make the damn thing with all it's little scoops and vents and such, it probably should be on there.

The tiny by today's standards 2.7L six cylinder holds 7 quarts of Mobil 1 too.

This is the bigger piece, the smaller one is already under the car....

[BruceK]

What?   You didn't clean the undertray before reinstalling it?   ;D

My wife's Infiniti has a big undertray too, but it has a nice little flap with 2 fasteners just under the drain bolt and oil filter that opens like a little door.  Very easy.  The only annoying thing is that I have to zip tie it in the open position during the oil change because it wants to stay closed.

[MiniDave]

it's just dusty....it's a 2 person job I've decided, so waiting for Rose to get up so she can control the jack, it just wants to roll down the driveway with the panel on it.

[gr8kornholio]

The wife's highlander has a little trap door also, but when you unbolt it, the other end has pegs/slots so it just comes right off and is out of the way.  Now draining the filter can is another issue all together cause the stupid little plastic pronged drain thing never sticks in so you end up holding half in as the oil drains off your hand.  Fun.

[tsumini]

My DIL has a Lotus Elise and is has an under tray that's a PITA (my son says so). And it won't fit on a lift.

[MiniDave]

I took it off by merely raising it on the suspension as far as it would go and reaching under the car to undo the fasteners - most are quarter turn to release like a dzus fastener. However, putting it back in that didn't work so well, I couldn't hold the pieces in place with one hand and screw the fastener in with the other as I just couldn't get both my arms in far enough to reach them. So, I had to break out the floor jack and add a little altitude, then it went together like normal - still a PITA when it's this hot and humid out. I stopped several times to go back in and have a drink and cool down, so an hour job - tops - took about 4 hours till I was done, tools put away etc.

I also put the car topper on, seems like when we travel with the boys/girls we need to carry enough crap for 2 families. Just like traveling with 2 year old kids, we have to schlep it all with us everywhere we go too...

[MiniDave]

So, the next series of Audi issues......

The radio hasn't been working right, she said she heard static in the left front speaker, sometimes even when the radio was turned off. Sometimes it worked fine, other times the radio made no sound at all, sometimes it was horrible static filled. She likes to listen to a specific radio channel, which is why we have paid for a Sirius subscription for the last 15 years.

So two co-incidences - I noticed that the headliner is starting to droop in the rear. I finally found where the main amp was located - oh, this is a Bose system which has a main amp and sub amps located with each set of speakers, of which there are 10 or so - I've not tried to count them - anyway, the main amp is located in the right rear fender well, inside the trunk. I found it, managed to get it un-wired and un-bolted, when I removed it I could see a lot of corrosion on the multi-pin contact, and strangely, it wasn't white or green the way you usually see it, but pale blue.

Then I remembered reading about how the pipe that supplies the rear wiper/washer runs thru the right side of the roof, and the amp is one the right side of the trunk - so my guess is that pipe has broken and when she tries to use the rear washer, the fluid runs out - ruing the headliner and running down inside to where the amp is.

So, she did a lot of online research and fond where some of the cars that had batteries going dead traced the problem to the radio, and the amp not shutting off. Lightbulbs going on all over the place now, as we've been having that problem too!

So, it's too cold to tear into the headliner out on the drive so I told her just don't use the rear squirters and she went looking for an amp -  found a used amp on the net, which arrived today.

Success! The radio sounds as good as ever and she's a happy camper. We're going to have to pull the headliner and fix that pipe (if its broken - I don't want to try it having just replaced the amp) and of course, replace the headliner too. But, the car runs and drives and the radio makes noise so she's happy, and that's what counts - right?  4.gif

[MiniDave]

Well, THAT was interesting!

The bride and I went to dinner tonight at the local little Italian joint, a place we've been going to since 1962 (not together  ;D ) and tonight as I stood up to put my coat on I hit the unlock button and of course the parking lights blinked. Another diner asked "Is that your Allroad?" I said yes and he said I used to have one in that color too, the only one I've even seen. He said he'd traded it for the V-8 model. I said well that's interesting, the owner of this car traded it after only a few months so HE could get the V-8 model! 

You know where this is going......

Sure enough, 14 years later we meet the first owner of our car!

[MiniGene]

Wow!  Small world, huh?

[MiniDave]

We bought it with 9K miles on it, he had only owned it since August and traded it in Dec the same year. It now has 83K on it and has been a great car for us. I appreciated how he had optioned it up - the trailer hitch alone was a rare (and expensive) option.

He was happy to see it again, and Rose took his pic for him with his cell standing with the car.   77.gif

[MiniDave]

Wow......went to get a Papa Johns and about 2 blocks from my house BOOM!, right front air bag blew - and I mean BLEW! I though I had a flat but as it kept rolling I guessed pretty quickly what had happened. As it's dark I can't check it out till the morning......I was able to drive it back home but of course the front end is in the dirt. I can't order a new one and I doubt it would get here in time for me to install it before I head to Tulsa, so I guess I'll be getting her a rental so she won't be stuck if something happens and she needs to take a dog to the vet or something.

This will make the 6th one of these Arnott bags I've replaced - and even tho they have stood by their warranty I think I'm about tired of it, so I'm going to ask for my money back and buy some factory Audi bags - if I can still get them from someplace. I know they'll be expensive tho - probably $650 each or more....I've never had one blow like this before, usually they just slowly leak down overnight

[Jims5543]

Have you considered converting to coil overs.

https://www.autopartswarehouse.com/audi-parts/audi-allroad-quattro-parts/allroad-quattro-coil-over-kit

[MiniDave]

Yes, but the reviews of that kit in particular have been mixed at best, for one thing you lose the height adjustability, the ride is not near as smooth, and you have to find a way to turn off the suspension controls in the computer, which can be done with a not too expensive cable and software set ($300). Also, the rears are quite a bit more work than the fronts - and I've only had issues with the fronts so far. They also recommend changing the sway bars with this kit, another $600 or so.

We've only really needed the height adjustability a few times, but when we needed it it meant being able to get where we were headed or not.

All in all, all it's cost me is a couple of hours of my time each time one of them fails, as they've replaced them all under warranty....I wonder how long they will continue to do that?

I also intend to ask them how much they would charge me to upgrade to their Gen II air bags.....not that they'll be any more reliable. I'm sure they'd make me buy one and just pay the upcharge on the other.....but who knows.

I'll have a long conversation with them on Monday morning, but the last time they were none too happy with me - like this is somehow my fault! This car is my wife's daily, and 90% of the time it's driven short distances in town......hardly the environment that would be hard on a suspension.