Crazy times in the car market

Started by BruceK, July 19, 2022, 02:37:42 PM

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BruceK

I'm writing this in the waiting area of a local CarMax used car dealership.  My oldest daughter got an offer to sell her car to Carmax and the deal was too good to pass up.  Her car is a 2016 Hyundai Sonata with 88,000 miles. It's in average, but nice condition. She bought it 5 years ago with about 30,000 miles on it for $12,000.  The CarMax offer today is for $12,000.  Yup, 5 years older and with 55,000 more miles on it, it has not lost a penny in value.  And actually, it will probably retail now for $15,000 or so.  That is just crazy.  So it has actually appreciated about $3000 or so.

Of course the flip side is new car dealerships have virtually zero new car inventory.  Hence the high demand for used cars. 
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

MiniDave

Yes, but.............

What is she going to do for a car then?

If no one has anything to sell and prices are thru the roof, buying a car will be an issue won't it?
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

BruceK

Yeah, that is the flip side isn't it?

Fortunately she has an old Jeep Compass as a spare car that she will use for the next 3 or 4 months until a brand new Toyota comes in.  Yeah, there are negatives in buying a new car now but she wants the new car warranty and the ability to ensure it is cared for properly from the start (the Hyundai was a former rental car with unknown maintenance history when she bought it). She's going to buy through the Costco program and the dealer is limited in how badly they can rip off the buyer.
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

94touring

Yeah it's nuts.  I can sell my old tundra for several thousand more than I bought it for.

MiniDave

But then you wouldn't have a Tundra anymore......and no way to haul stuff.

And used trucks are going for stupid money!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

Yeah the options would be buy another old truck in unknown condition or a new truck for the price I paid for my 1st condo I bought here 12 years ago.

cstudep

Yeah I could sell my 23 year old 4runner for almost 3x what I paid for it 3 years ago. I got a pretty good deal on it at that time anyway, but I have never seen just a run of the mill daily driven vehicle appreciate in value by that much.

ADRay

another surprising thing I saw the other day was the large local Toyota dealer that I hadn't gone past in months has maybe 20% of the inventory they typically have in the lot.
1982 Mini 1000 HL
@andyray998

BruceK

From what I've seen at local dealers 20% would be a lot of cars.  I stepped into a Ford dealer - one of the biggest in San Antonio - and the showroom had no cars at all, the lot had about 10 vehicles but all of them were white Ford Ranger stripped down work trucks.  A nearby Toyota dealer had 1 vehicle in its huge showroom and just about a dozen new cars with 90% already sold.
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

MiniDave

My Ford dealer seems to have plenty of Explorers and pick ups, but only used stuff in the showroom. They have the one Lightning demo but none in stock, nor any Mustang E's, (stupidest name for that car ever).

The huge Chevy dealer just has a dozen or so pick ups and a few Corvettes and such, nothing else and very few used cars.

Our MINI dealer has zero new cars in stock, and about 3 used Minis....I don't understand how they're staying in business, except I get service coupon flyers about every week - expensive hard, color printed ones too.

I wonder how much of this is still due to chip shortage and how much is being done to cull the market a bit, now that they've successfully raised prices, stopped giving out incentives and aren't spending a dime for advertising, and have record profits - why would they go back to over production, huge floor plan costs and so on?
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

BruceK

A little off-topic, but definitely a sign of the times: did you know that Ford does not make 4-door sedans or hatchbacks anymore for the US market?   

Taurus? Nope. Fusion? Nyet. Focus? Non.  Fiesta? No.   

Crossovers, SUVs, the Mustang, and trucks are all Ford manufactures and sells. 
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

Brit_in_TX

I bought my truck from Echopark and recently got an email offering more than I paid for it as a trade in on a newer truck.  That I need a car payment right now, but another example of how insane the market is. 

MiniDave

#12
Yes, and again, how much more is the new truck over what they used to be?

It's a zero sum game unless you're just selling an extra car that you don't need to replace. I feel badly for those folks who need a car and have to buy something right now to be able to get to work.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Brit_in_TX

Quote from: BruceK on July 20, 2022, 09:20:56 AM
A little off-topic, but definitely a sign of the times: did you know that Ford does not make 4-door sedans or hatchbacks anymore for the US market?   

Taurus? Nope. Fusion? Nyet. Focus? Non.  Fiesta? No.   

Crossovers, SUVs, the Mustang, and trucks are all Ford manufactures and sells.

They are still selling them in Europe, so it would be easy to bring them back if the demand increases. But there are other manufacturers that make much better cars in those segments.


Brit_in_TX

Quote from: MiniDave on July 20, 2022, 10:38:18 AM
Yes, and again, how much more is the new truck over what they used to be?

It's a zero sum game unless you're just selling an extra car that you don't need to replace. I feel badly for those folks who need a car and have to buy something right now to be able to get to work.

Agreed

My sister-in-law is in the market for her first car (she has been driving her parents' cars through college), but will need to get her own and the prices of a used vehicle are close to making it worth buying a new car - when you factor in virtually zero unexpected maintenance costs and the warranty it is a better value option. Especially if you get a deal on something, and there are some to be had - as an example seen some great deals on the outgoing Honda HRV, but you cannot be fussy on color or options.

cstudep

Most definitely not a buyers market right now unless you just have some extra cash you need to use on something.

I doubt we ever see the "$500" or even the "$1000" car ever again, if after looking at it you feel comfortable enough to actually drive it home then it's probably at least a $3000 car now. I recently helped an old retired friend who is on a fixed income find a car that would be reliable enough to get him back and forth to his chemo appointments 40 miles away when his other car crapped out and wasn't worth fixing with all that was wrong with it.

That was a chore, let me tell you.

ADRay

Quote from: MiniDave on July 20, 2022, 07:52:05 AM
Mustang E's, (stupidest name for that car ever).


ha, yeah, Ford's done a pretty good job of ruining their own well established brand between that and the Bronco Sport...
1982 Mini 1000 HL
@andyray998

ADRay

Quote from: ADRay on July 21, 2022, 05:39:38 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on July 20, 2022, 07:52:05 AM
Mustang E's, (stupidest name for that car ever).


ha, yeah, Ford's done a pretty good job of ruining their own well-established brands between that and the Bronco Sport...
1982 Mini 1000 HL
@andyray998

MiniDave

I have yet to see a Maverick on the road or in a dealer's lot.....I've seen a few of the Hyundai truck things.

I guess you can't argue with Ford's success currently, their electric trucks and cars are sold out for a couple of years worth, they beat GM to the high profit end of the business while GM (to their credit) went after the lower end of the market first.

Speaking of GM and cars, other than the Bolt, do they make any actual cars either? Camaro and Corvette I know, but any sedans?

I know Chrysler still makes the Charger and their 2 door "pony" car the Challenger, maybe the 300 still?

It's funny that way back in the 70's when small imports started making serious inroads into our market the big three tried to counter, but even then their small cars were huge compared to the imports, and now they've pretty much abandoned that end of the market to the imports again.....except now all those import cars are mostly made here!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MPlayle

I have actually seen a few of the Ford Maverick pickups and one of the Hyundai Santa Cruz pickups on the road.

Seeing a new Maverick on the road was how I first discovered them - thought it was a Mexico import (or visitor) until I looked it up to find it is also a US market truck.


Brit_in_TX

#20
Quote from: MiniDave on July 21, 2022, 08:05:29 AM
Speaking of GM and cars, other than the Bolt, do they make any actual cars either? Camaro and Corvette I know, but any sedans?
They still sell the Chevy Malibu.  In the Cadillac range they have the CT4 and CT5.


Quote from: MiniDave on July 21, 2022, 08:05:29 AM
I know Chrysler still makes the Charger and their 2 door "pony" car the Challenger, maybe the 300 still?
Chrysler is now part of Stellantis, so in the "US" brands they only sell the Dodge Challenger and Charger, Chrysler 300 and the Pacifica (not sure if you case that as a car or an SUV or other).  They have an extensive number of European brands some of which are sold here but they are more car based rather than SUV. 

Having an SUV in the range appears to be a requirement now, even the supercar and uber luxury manufacturers are making them - Bentley, Rolls Royce, Lambo, Aston Martin, Ferrari! Enzo is probably spinning in his grave at the thought.

cstudep

So is the Ford Maverick basically what used to be a Ranger back in the day?

I have never understood why they stopped making the small S-10 and Ranger trucks. Had a 2wd single cab S-10 from basically the age of 18 until probably my mid 30's. Most useful vehicle for a young guy without a family I think.

MiniDave

I think the Maverick is even bigger than the Ranger used to be, but that's why I wanted to see and sit in one. They're all 4 drs too, which is pretty useless to me, I'm much rather have a 2dr "extra cab" or such.....

The engine options are interesting - the base motor is a 2.5 hybrid with a CVT only transmission and gets 40 mpg!! The upgraded engine is a 2L turbo that makes like 275 hp, but the mileage drops into the high 20's. Still.....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

cstudep

A 4 door in a small truck platform seems counter intuitive to me. If you want a "family" truck and need 4 doors why would you not just get an F-150 or similar. If you are in the market for a "small truck" then I don't know why you would want a 4 door. Like you, I would rather have an extended cab for better leg room and/or more bed length.

Engine options sound interesting, the Turbo option seems like a good compromise if a person isn't interested in whatever extra level of complication the Hybrid stuff might add.

I would have loved a small Turbo motor in my old S-10!

MPlayle

The Maverick is about the same size as the old Ranger; but as Dave says, it is a 4-door with a smaller bed size (something like only 4.5 feet long).  It is also a unibody vehicle like the Honda Ridgeline (though slightly smaller than a Ridgeline).  Much more car-like in construction rather than the traditional cab/bed-on-frame of the bigger trucks.

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