F1 - 2022

Started by Brit_in_TX, October 26, 2021, 01:45:04 PM

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MiniDave

2022 is shaping up to be an interesting year in F1.

Lots of changes to deal with including chassis changes, going from 13 to 18" wheels, driver changes and for once Mercedes is NOT having a good time of it, and I don't think they're just sandbagging it.

So, Red Bull is off and running with one of the best runup to the races in memory, but the boys in red jammies seem to have the measure of them too....less than a tenth behind so far.

Some of the teams have reported real issues with the cars bouncing or porposing - in fact all of the teams seem to have had issues with it at first, but some like Red Bull, Ferrari and Alpine seem to have fixed it while Mercedes, Aston and Williams have not. Haas, Alfa and Alpha seem to have it down to "not really an issue" status too....McLaren is a complete unknown at this point but they seem to be in the latter camp too.

All in all it looks to be  a fun race weekend in the making with lots of new faces on the grid - and some old ones too with KMag getting the nod from HAAS and settling in really well,, running as high as 10th, which considering last year is a MAJOR step up for them.

In the best moment of all, Bottas in the Alfa was faster than BOTH Mercedes drivers in FP2......got to be some good natured smirks over that on his face!

So, qually tomorrow to set the stage. I expect Max to be on pole with the Red cars right behind him and Pez, Alonslo, Lando and the others right behind them.

With the increased ability to run close to the cars ahead, there could be some interesting passes and even a few crazy banzai moves tried this weekend too.
Complete failure at retirement

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2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

BruceK

Great Qually!  It's still amazing to me that teams can build entirely new cars following entirely new regulations and still come within 1/10 of a second in the first real competition of qualifying.   And it's great to see some of the other teams like Alfa Romeo and Haas and Alpha Tauri up in the top 10.  I'm sure Bottas is thrilled to be ahead of one of the Mercedes! 

Really looking forward to the race tomorrow! 
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

MiniDave

Yes, I think it's going to be an interesting race....and I don't count the Benzer boys out as they seemed to go faster as the long runs developed.

So, still the same old boys in the front of the grid, Reds Bull, Ferrari and Merc, but the midfield has changed quite a bit. The main change for me seems to be the improvement in the Ferrari engines - Hass and Alfa are also both doing much better this season and I think a lot of it has to be down to the Ferrari power unit.

It's nice to see that Red Bull hasn't lost anything by taking over the Honda power units too, but I think the real performance enhancement is still the Newey chassis.

So, Ferrari to lead 1 and 3, Sainz was right there with him, Max in 2nd. KMag in 7th in the HAAS(!!!!) and Bottas in 6th ahead of Russel - that has to be sweet for him.....so it will be one hell of an interesting start tot he race tomorrow.

I'm looking forward to the race tomorrow too!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

#53
wow, what a race.....

Actual passing, actual race driving, some retirements, lots of different pit stop strategies and an unbelievable podium.....

And nice to hear another new national anthem on the podium too!

This promises to be an interesting year in F1!

In just seven days - another race.   77.gif

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

BruceK

I second that!  Great race!  Loved the dicing between Max and Charles.  And the cars sure seem to be able to race a lot closer this year.  Instead of Lewis being the whiner, Max won top points for complaining and more complaining.  Not something to be proud of.

I love the joyful sound of the Italian national anthem.  I remember Vettel just used to hum along.
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

MiniDave

#55
I think if there hadn't been a safety car the podium might have looked different - at least for third place.

One thing stood out - some teams did two stops, some three and some four! Only Honda engined cars didn't finish the race, and Ferrari powered cars were almost all in the top 10 finishers (6 of the top 11). Positions 12-17 were all Mercedes powered.

All in all an interesting race.

Mercedes is nowhere close to where they finished, so kudos to them for their reliability and strategy to get them where they are at the end, if we don't see Red Bull failures next weekend I expect them (Mercedes) to be further down the order at the finish.

And how about Kmag? First race back and he was in the top 10 all the way!

Disappointed in both the BigMacs and Astons, running back there with the Williams pair....

Nowhere to go but up for them.....

Kudo's to "Joe" for getting a 10th place points paying finish in his first race - and with an Alfa no less!

Bottas got another of his patented terrible starts but came back from it to finish well.....which shows there is strength in both the Alfa package and him.

I think the real takeaway is that Ferrari's engine package is at least the match for anything on the grid now.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Brit_in_TX

It was a great race.  I am glad that there are two teams fighting at the front, I just hope that it is maintained regardless of the circuit.

With Mercedes being 3rd best, and the rest of the Mercedes engine runners being at the back, my question is whether the Mercedes engine is that bad and the Mercedes car is actually really good to make up the difference.  Honda (or whatever it is officially called), with 3 of the 4 runners not finishing - they have to be worried about the reliability.  Not something they can easily fix for the second race this weekend. 

The biggest disappointment for me is McLaren - looks like they really have missed the mark with the car. 

And my final observation - all of the drivers that returned to F1 this weekend beat their team mates - some with little or no testing.  Albon beat Latifi, Hulkenberg beat Stroll and Magnesson beat Schumacher.  Really shows that money does not necessarily buy talent!

MiniDave

Interesting discussion today about the race in Saudi - there was an oil refinery less than 10 miles away that was blown up by a missile strike from Yemen.......the drivers held a meeting about whether or not they were going to race given what had just happened. The meeting lasted 4 hours and apparently was ended by the Saudis who told organizers the race would proceed or they would not be allowed to leave SA.

Qually is to take place today as planned.......
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

BruceK

#58
Not leave the country?  Sounds like Saudi.  Um, without getting political I spent 3 weeks working in The Kingdom about 20 years ago and while the local people I met there were nice, there was very much a black and white approach to things. Something either "is" or it "isn't", no room for shades of grey.  No wiggle room.  Before entering the country I had to sign a document acknowledging that I understood the penalty for breaking the law for things such as possession of drugs would be death.  No appeals in the western sense.  Just a Saturday afternoon appointment in "chop chop square" for my public beheading.  That kind of reality is a bit sobering.  And it sure makes you watch every step you take. 

So from the Saudi perspective there will be a race or there won't. And there will be a race as planned and promised.  Otherwise they would lose so much international "face". 

I hope the race takes place without incident. 
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

MiniDave

Well, a couple of interesting trends have shown up again this weekend on track - the bottom half of the order are all Mercedes powered cars - including Mercedes itself in 11th and 14th.

LeClerc looks strong again but they say Max has about 3/10'ths in his pocket still. I think the Red Bull is well suited to this track and will get in first and stay there with the Ferraris right behind them and Perez in there too.

The rest of the top 10 field is a toss up between the Alfa, Alpha and maybe even the Alpine, with Kmag thrown in the middle there somewhere.

It has been interesting to see the guys who were out of the car come back so strong as someone pointed out in the last race - and they're doing it in this one too.

Qually later tonight should be fun to watch.

Mercedes has to be scratching their collective heads about why they're this far off the pace.....but it's not just them.....McLaren and Aston are right there too along with Williams.

OTOH, all the Ferrari powered cars are running at the top or near the top of the order - quite a change from 2 seasons ago, isn't it?
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

HECK of a qualifying today!

After the horrifying crash of Mick Schumacher in Q2 (he's OK but won't run tomorrow) Q3 promised to be a real fight, and in an absolute surprise after the Ferraris had been setting the pace all weekend, Checo came good at the end by only hundreths to take his first poll in 225 tries!

I'm glad to see Perez getting better and better with the Red Bull.....

so the order for tomorrow's race

P1 - Perez in his Red Bull
2 - LeClerc for Ferrari
3 - Sainz also Ferrari
4 - Verstappen Red Bull
5 - Ocon Alpine
6 - Russell Mercedes - and having less issues with it than the Hamster
7 - Alonso - Alpine
8 - Bottas Alfa
9 - Gasly - Alpha Tauri
10 - KMag - HAAS

notables - Hamster in P16 - he's looked miserable all weekend so far, the 2 Big Macs in 11th and 12th

I'll bet Aston can't wait for Vettel to come out of quarantine!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

gr8kornholio

Was so glad when Red Bull picked up checo.  He did amazing stuff in the pink car the years he was in it.  Now he's got real equipment and doing good.  I still believe if he hadn't fought the hamster sooo hard at the last race then no way on earth would max have won it.  Even with fresh tires and one lap cause instead of fighting checo, hamster would've been out front cruising. 
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BruceK

Well I enjoyed that race!  The new regulations this year really have allowed much closer racing, and it's great to see it.   It was great that Alpine allowed it's drivers to really dice with each other.   Really tough luck for a lot of drivers including Perez who was doing so well then just got caught under the safety car.  Last year I thought Hamilton did a lot of whining and complaining but this year it's definitely Verstappen who's taking over in that regard.
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

MiniDave

#63
Whew! That was fun!

I see what you mean about Max taking over the Hamster role of complaining about everything!

Too bad for Pez, he had a good race anyway.... Russell is showing the Hamster how to make the Merc run, isn't he?

Hell of a good race all the way down the order. Ferrari jumps out to a Mercedes style lead in both the driver's and constructor's races.

The drivers are saying that they think this type of racing (being able to overtake and yet be overtaken again) will continue all season.

I'm a little surprised at the reliability issues given this is what, the eighth year they've run these basic power units?
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Brit_in_TX

This got a little bit long!

Race
Really enjoyed the race, the ability for the cars to run closer seems to have been a success, really enjoyed the battles up and down the running order.  The do need to do something about the DRS detection point on the entry to the last corner, as it was comical watching both Max and Charles trying their hardest not to be first to that line. 

Really felt sorry for Perez as the Safety Car really screwed him, but then again the Safety Car has screwed others before.  Also Lewis gambled on there being a late Safety Car or VSC and had terrible luck that when it came the pit lane was closed, if he had been able to pit under the VSC he would probably have finished 6th - with the speed they currently have in the Merc, that would be the best he could have hoped for.

The Race Director making the teams responsible for giving places back seems to be working as well. 

TV Coverage
For me the race was let down a bit by the TV Coverage.  When they a covering a brilliant battle, why did they cut away to a pit stop, a replay or shots of the crowd? Need to make more use of screen in screen technology where they can show two different parts of coverage at once.

Track Safety
Schumacher's crash on Saturday was horrible.  Although he did not walk away (understand no injuries, but he was lifted from the car), the safety of the cars is stunning as it was not long ago where an accident like that would have resulted in serious injury.

There are a few things I really do not understand in terms of track safety.
1 - Most modern circuits require acres and acres of run off in the high speed sections.  However, all of this gets thrown out of the window if an organization wants to host a street race.  Looking at Jeddah, Baku and Singapore. 
2 - Still having solid concrete or steel barriers with no form of protection around the circuit and using the excuse that "we didn't expect someone to go off there".  This has happened a number of times in the last couple of years - Grosjean in Bahrain, Bottas/Russell at Imola, Verstappen in Baku and now Mick in Saudi.  I understand the argument that tire barriers are not effective in certain areas as they grab the car and make the accident more violent.  However, there are other options out there, for example NASCAR and Indycar oval circuits all have the SAFER Barrier installed.  The track in Saudi could learn a lot from looking at the technology they use on ovals as they seem to have zero options for adding in run off.
3 - The desire to have the average speed of temporary circuits higher than most permanent circuits that are on the calendar.  Seems stupid to go faster on circuits that are less safe. 

Reliability
I quite like the reliability issues we are seeing. To me it shows that the teams are pushing the envelope of performance. 




Brit_in_TX

Quote from: MiniDave on March 26, 2022, 08:35:36 AM
ended by the Saudis who told organizers the race would proceed or they would not be allowed to leave SA.

Little reminder to the drivers that they are guests in the countries they race in!

MiniDave

#66
Some people are suggesting that the change in the fuel this year is what's causing some of the reliability issues, and also the extra power the Ferrari engines seem to have over the Mercs.....clearly there is something Ferrari has found as they have not been this close to the front since the FIA made them change their engines a few years ago, so the fuel could be the simple answer.

I think this could be a banner year for racing in F1, and if it is, you will definitely see Audi and Porsche involved in 2025/26 when the engine rules change again.

I wonder if the FIA will mandate 4 cyl engines - cause that is right in Audi/VW's wheelhouse - in a quest for even better fuel economy and as a potential way to slow the cars down (Ha! Remember the 1500 hp 4 cyl BMWs?)
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Brit_in_TX

Quote from: MiniDave on March 28, 2022, 10:09:41 AM
Some people are suggesting that the change in the fuel this year is what's causing some of the reliability issues, and also the extra power the Ferrari engines seem to have over the Mercs.....clearly there is something Ferrari has found as they have not been this close to the front since the FIA made them change their engines a few years ago, so the fuel could be the simple answer.

In one of the practice sessions this year, I have no idea which one.  A commentator said that the Ferrari engine was all new this year, to the extent the could not transfer over a single bolt.  So could also have something to do with that. 

One thing I wondered, is if Mercedes aggressive packaging to achieve the "zero pod" design as compromised the engine design.  Russell said that they are missing downforce rather than it being a power issue, but with all the Merc cars being slow, there must be a power issue somewhere.   

MiniDave

I wonder the same since pretty much all of the Merc engined cars are at the bottom of the order and almost all of the Ferrari engined (and the Renault and Reds Bull) are at the top
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Brit_in_TX

The US is get a 3rd GP from next year.  A street race in Las Vegas.  It will also take place on Saturday night at 10pm (pacific).

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/when-is-the-formula-1-las-vegas-grand-prix-date-track-information-and-more/9480827/

Not sure how I feel about another street race, there are some awesome circuits here that could be upgraded.


MiniDave

#70
I dunno, I was following a discussion about this very thing this morning....

The Glen - needs a TON of updates (armco) to be ready for F1, plus no real hotel etc infrastructure nearby

Road America - seems like it could work as is - but also out in the middle of nowhere - not billionaire friendly

Road Atlanta - short course, would need a lot of updates, not too far from infrastructure

Indy - BTDT, doable I suppose

VIR - not ready for prime time - also out in the sticks

PIR - def not an F1 ready track - plus we already have a race in "the west"

Where else? The main takeaway I got was they want them to be in "destination locations" and none of the classic road course race tracks are.......
Complete failure at retirement

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2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Willie_B

Barber in Alabama? Never been there but I think Indy car has had races there.

BruceK

Geez, I remember learning about the disaster of the previous F1 races at Las Vegas in the early 1980's.  Held in Caesar's Palace parking lot. Yes, really.  Layout of the "track" shown below. 

In my opinion, F1 on a temporary street circuit is kind of like having a herd of motocross riders chasing each other through the maze of a Las Vegas hotel's corridors. 

Monaco makes sense only because of nearly 100 years of racing tradition there.   Singapore, Sochi, Saudi, etc. simply don't.

But I guess the real reason for three races in the US is to gain more American eyeballs to F1. So, in that regard it should increase the popularity of the sport. 
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

BruceK

Quote from: Willie_B on March 31, 2022, 03:36:00 PM
Barber in Alabama? Never been there but I think Indy car has had races there.

According to this older article Barber is FIA approved for F1 testing, but not F1 racing. So sounds like with some upgrades it could be made ready.

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/barber-motorsports-park-the-hidden-diamond-of-american-motorsport.121287/

Of course, nearby Birmingham, Alabama does not have the same cachet or worldwide recognition as Las Vegas or Miami.
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

Brit_in_TX

I am not sure that the standard that Barber has is still valid. 

The current list of Grade One circuits in the US are:
Circuit of the Americas
Indianapolis Motor Speedway
Miami International Autodrome (provisional)

Grade Two circuits are:
Barber Motorsports Park   
Detroit Belle Isle Street Circuit
Lime Rock Park   
Long Beach Street Circuit
Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
Nashville Street Circuit
New Jersey Motorsports Park
Portland International Raceway   
Road America   
Road Atlanta   
Sebring International Raceway
Sonoma Raceway
St. Petersburg Street Circuit   
Virginia International Raceway   
Watkins Glen International
WeatherTech Raceway Laguna Seca

From driving some of these in video games, I really like Sebring and Sonoma.

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