MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI

Started by tmsmini, April 24, 2020, 09:53:22 AM

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jedduh01

hah.. ohh the interwebs.. post something and it really gets around...inside scoop.   Cole sent that to me before that hit Instagram. 
Some people want instant results.  plug it up  = slap it on and go.

  This so far hasn't been that... no matter what all these changes rack up to more changes. Last week he had it 'started' but it wouldn't run long. and a high idle.   This week more SC Take off ..  Check for intake leaks.. hes doubting the coil ignition signal.   Fuel line touched the belt providing a slice.... new fuel line on its way (braided now) of course.  Sort of typical project teething, just putting it out there for us all to see.  and just continual frustrations...

The finger picture was then followed to me if i would come take a look  help ., offer suggestions...I had to reply , hey bud   ... You're in a whole other ballgame from my experience but I would / could someday.

I dont know his diagnostics...  Is Fuel pressure happy?  Is the idle adjusted properly?  is the computer adjusted properly?   then ignition.. is it timed somewhere close to run right.. make adjustments does it help. All stuff im not diagnosing off site.

awaiting updteas.  He's borrowing one of my mini's for the local run we're doing tomorrow  4.gif

tmsmini

I think anytime you do something out of the ordinary, you are going to run into snags.
There are alot of interactions going on, each one can impact other components. Even with a simple system like the A series based injection systems, there are alot of places for something to not be quite right.

MiniDave

Yeah, he's doing a lot of changes all together....got to sort them out one thing at a time.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

tmsmini

I am still messing with my "upgrade" after a number of years

tmsmini

I seem to have lost track of the status.
It looks like he has been waiting on Holley for some help.

MiniDave

I understand that he has it running now? And says it works well?

Sure would like to see an update on this as I'm seriously looking at doing this on one of my cars - I'm looking at the single barrel unit tho - I think the 2bbl is way more than I need for a non supercharged car.

I've sent off to Holley for some info on the overall size, bore and stud spacing to see how I can adapt it to an SPi manifold or HIF side draft manifold, and to find out if it can be used sideways or has to be vertical. I'm thinking it will fit better if I can use it on the SPi intake.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MPlayle

In the video where Cole modifies the EFI unit to fit the supercharger, he does mention that the unit is initially intended to be a down-draft style and for his application he is using it in side-draft style.  As such, I would think it can operate in either position.

Another intake option to consider is the intake for the Weber 32/36 down-draft kit for Minis.


tmsmini

#32
Have you seen the thread on the Mini Forum where the guy in Australia is trying a modified throttle body on an SPI manifold?
I can't find the link on my phone at the moment

http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/343927-side-draughting-an-spi-throttle-body/

Actually he is using a modified SPi TB on a side draft manifold.

MiniDave

#33
I have not seen that.....seems like it would work just fine as long as the bores are right and so on....the attraction for me on the Holley is that it's all complete in one unit, no separate ECU to deal with and it's fully adjustable for mix and timing curve if you use the one built in instead of the dizzy. It will even control the vacuum advance....

Speaking of, the single bore Holley FI unit I was looking at is only a 1.5" bore......I would hate to go to the trouble of building this thing and lose HP, I asked what size the 2bbl is, if it's also 1.5" x 2 it might work better, at least on a built engine. For a 998 the single would be perfect I think.....not so sure on a built up 1275 or 1360 or something....even tho this carb was used on an engine twice the size of what I build. (170-200 cu in Ford 6 cyl)

Edit: the SPi throttle plate is only just over 1.5" diameter.....so little difference there. Interesting. This is just one thought as I already have an SPi intake to work with. For the 2bbl units I would have to either build a manifold or modify a Weber downdraft intake....or build a side draft style from scratch - I don't know if I'm up to that.....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MPlayle

Dave,

Which of the 1-barrel units were you looking at?


tmsmini

#35
I am no expert but I am not sure you can compare the diameter of the FI system directly to the diameter of the carb system. Basically an HIF 44 is 1.75 inches.
SC offers both 45 mm and 50 mm TBs. It is not clear to me at what point you need the 50 mm TB. The Rover MEMS MPi system used a 48 MM TB and Burlen offered a 52 mm upgrade. I am not sure the MEMS 2J could effectively use the 52 mm version.

Certainly the ability of the system to flow air is limited by the diameter of the throttle, but the ability to use the air flow is dependent upon the other components in the system. I am just not sure how to know when the extra flow is needed.

MiniDave

Quote from: MPlayle on August 19, 2020, 02:01:39 PM
Dave,

Which of the 1-barrel units were you looking at?

There is only the one - #550-552
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

#37
Quote from: tmsmini on August 19, 2020, 02:30:13 PM
I am no expert but I am not sure you can compare the diameter of the FI system directly to the diameter of the carb system. Basically an HIF 44 is 1.5 inches.
SC offers both 45 mm and 50 mm TBs. It is not clear to me at what point you need the 50 mm TB. The Rover MEMS MPi system used a 48 MM TB and Burlen offered a 52 mm upgrade. I am not sure the MEMS 2J could effectively use the 52 mm version.

Certainly the ability of the system to flow air is limited by the diameter of the throttle, but the ability to use the air flow is dependent upon the other components in the system. I am just not sure how to know when the extra flow is needed.

Actually, the HIF38 is 1.5", the HIF44 is 1.75.....FWIW.  44mm/.0254 = 1.73" and change.  38mm/.0254 = 1.49" and change
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

tmsmini

Quote from: MiniDave on August 19, 2020, 02:46:04 PM
Actually, the HIF38 is 1.5", the HIF44 is 1.75.....FWIW.  44mm/.0254 = 1.73" and change.  38mm/.0254 = 1.49" and change

I knew this, but that is what I get for coming from  98 degree garage and trying to respond...

MiniDave

#39
Ha! I know that feeling!  77.gif

And I agree, small valves, restricted ports and manifolds and the extra flow capability does nothing for you. Likewise, if you have a good free-flowing exhaust, larger valves, cleaned up ports, unshrouded valves and a good intake, then you can take advantage of the extra air and fuel - in fact if you don't go up some it will feel chocked, especially at higher rpms.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

tmsmini

#40
This what I was trying to do, but I seem to have misplaced some bracket hardware

MiniDave

#41
Building an engine test rig?

Looks good.....those HF dollies are handy, aren't they? I think I have 4 or 5 of them scattered around the shop with engines and transmissions on them
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

tmsmini

The engine test stand was built along time ago by Nick at Boot2Bonnet. Actually just the "dolly" to hold the subframe. I never finished the wiring off. I never really used it as I kept borrowing parts from the engine it held for other cars.
Now I have a fresh rebuild to put in it and will revisit the Micro/Mega Squirt.

tmsmini

I have to admit it is a whole lot easier getting engine mount bolts in place without a car in the way

MPlayle

Quote from: MiniDave on August 19, 2020, 02:44:52 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on August 19, 2020, 02:01:39 PM
Dave,

Which of the 1-barrel units were you looking at?

There is only the one - #550-552

I asked because a search of "Holley Sniper EFI" turned up the factory page (linked below) that showed three single barrel units.  One of the other units also has large bore and small bore options.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/

I suspected the one you referenced was actually the one you were considering, but could not be sure.


tmsmini

So with my limited experience with 289 and 327 engines, most Holley and Edelbrock replacement carbs are defined in CFM.
I am not seeing CFM listed for the all the Sniper variations.

Any one hazard a guess as to the CFM on an HIF44?

This Sniper seems to be for six cylinders:
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/sniper_efi_autolite_1100_one_barrel/parts/550-552

but no equivalent CFM mentioned. Lists 144 cubic inch to 300 CI, that is quite a range.

MiniDave

Michael, only the 550-552 is a single barrel, the other two are two barrel setups - the BBD and 2GC. The 550-552 is the one I'm investigating to use in place of a SPi setup, but on an SPi intake manifold
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

cstudep

This is an intriguing idea for sure. It looks like it would be plenty of "carb" for just about any mini engine, perhaps even too much maybe? The "self tuning" feature would make initial setup a lot easier I think but I wonder if you can then manually tweak things from there, or if you are stuck with the auto feature. Will have to do some more reading when I have more time.

Cost is not much more than a new single SU. Now you really have me thinking since I was already going away from the dual setup I have to a single carb. Fuel injection would be so nice.

94touring

Ideally you find a used spi or mpi tank for cheap, but you can always fab up a standard tank for fuel injection.

MiniDave

Yeah, the kit includes a return line bulkhead fitting for the tank, so fabbing that up is no issue - I do wonder if the outlet fitting is big enough since it's only 1/4"....I think they suggest 5/16 out and 3/8 back.

You can manually tweak the fuel map (and ignition if you use it) to your hearts content - one tiny tweak at a time, or adjust the curve in broad strokes - you can do it in percentages of movement or one point at a time. The software seems pretty complete - and the touch screen comes with the kit. Once you have the map you want you can lock it in but the unit will still compensate for altitude and temperature - just like a modern FI system should!  ;D

The documentation seems pretty complete, and the unit use a "wizard" to get things started, where you input how many cylinders, size of the motor and so on - however you do have to convert to cu in from cc.

I'm going to order one, I figure I can do a basic set up on my test stand to learn how to use it, then maybe transfer it over to my green 89. I have a dyno run on that car for a baseline, I can take it up and do another run and see if it made any difference - plus on the dyno we can really fine tune the map.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

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