Going to be an Interesting 4 years

[94touring]

Regarding who Trump destroyed.  94% of the media contributed to Hillary/democratic.  I've watched them skew and twist so many facts and words out of Trumps mouth, that alone would make me vote for him.  Establishment democratics and republicans are one in the same.  Trump ran against both parties, expecially when you saw how many of his own republicans came out against him or went right along with any garbage the media would spew.  You even had CNN moderators being fired for giving Hillary questions ahead of time.  I thoroughly enjoyed watching the happiness be sucked out of the biased faces on msnbc and cnn on election night.  I saw this upset coming a mile away and I've been vocal about it to those who have discussed politics with me this past year. 

[MPlayle]

To top it off, many insurance companies are not widely offering individual plans in a number of areas.

There are only two insurers offering individual plans in my area and only one of those has my doctor in it.  When my current COBRA benefit runs out, I'm screwed as that one plan will more than double my monthly premium, triple my deductible and reduce other coverages.  Forget the ACA "Exchange" plans, my doctor doesn't take them and only the most basic are offered by any sort of insurer in my area at 1.5 times the premium and quadruple the deductible..

Unless I get another full-time job to get employer supported health insurance, I'm likely to become one of those "self-pay" folks paying a penalty to the IRS for not being able to afford even ACA insurance.

[Jims5543]

I have to wonder if Trump will even make it to the inauguration in January?  Is there a line in Vegas on an assassination?

All the little snowflakes that received participation trophies all their life have no idea how to handle defeat.

These "protesters" reports are coming in that they are being bused in?  Where are they coming from? who is paying for the buses?  Are they being paid?

Very interesting next few days.

[MiniDave]

God no! Trump is bad enough, but Pence? Jeez louise

I'm glad you got your man Jim, and I honestly and sincerely hope things work out well for all of us, cause we all live here and we all live under the same rules.......

I was never a Hillary supporter either, to me two bad choices is no choice at all.

[BruceK]

No matter whether you were shocked, or pleased, about the election outcome, I ask that you read this article from a CBS News contributor. 

I think it is a pretty darn good self-reflection piece.  It's long, but worth it.



Commentary: The unbearable smugness of the press

By Will Rahn, CBS News, November 10, 2016, 6:00 AM

The mood in the Washington press corps is bleak, and deservedly so.

It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that, with a few exceptions, we were all tacitly or explicitly #WithHer, which has led to a certain anguish in the face of Donald Trump's victory. More than that and more importantly, we also missed the story, after having spent months mocking the people who had a better sense of what was going on.

This is all symptomatic of modern journalism's great moral and intellectual failing: its unbearable smugness. Had Hillary Clinton won, there's be a winking "we did it" feeling in the press, a sense that we were brave and called Trump a liar and saved the republic.

So much for that. The audience for our glib analysis and contempt for much of the electorate, it turned out, was rather limited. This was particularly true when it came to voters, the ones who turned out by the millions to deliver not only a rebuke to the political system but also the people who cover it. Trump knew what he was doing when he invited his crowds to jeer and hiss the reporters covering him. They hate us, and have for some time.

And can you blame them? Journalists love mocking Trump supporters. We insult their appearances. We dismiss them as racists and sexists. We emote on Twitter about how this or that comment or policy makes us feel one way or the other, and yet we reject their feelings as invalid.

It's a profound failure of empathy in the service of endless posturing. There's been some sympathy from the press, sure: the dispatches from "heroin country" that read like reports from colonial administrators checking in on the natives. But much of that starts from the assumption that Trump voters are backward, and that it's our duty to catalogue and ultimately reverse that backwardness. What can we do to get these people to stop worshiping their false god and accept our gospel?

We diagnose them as racists in the way Dark Age clerics confused medical problems with demonic possession. Journalists, at our worst, see ourselves as a priestly caste. We believe we not only have access to the indisputable facts, but also a greater truth, a system of beliefs divined from an advanced understanding of justice.

You'd think that Trump's victory – the one we all discounted too far in advance – would lead to a certain newfound humility in the political press. But of course that's not how it works. To us, speaking broadly, our diagnosis was still basically correct. The demons were just stronger than we realized.

This is all a "whitelash," you see. Trump voters are racist and sexist, so there must be more racists and sexists than we realized. Tuesday night's outcome was not a logic-driven rejection of a deeply flawed candidate named Clinton; no, it was a primal scream against fairness, equality, and progress. Let the new tantrums commence!

That's the fantasy, the idea that if we mock them enough, call them racist enough, they'll eventually shut up and get in line. It's similar to how media Twitter works, a system where people who dissent from the proper framing of a story are attacked by mobs of smugly incredulous pundits. Journalists exist primarily in a world where people can get shouted down and disappear, which informs our attitudes toward all disagreement.

Journalists increasingly don't even believe in the possibility of reasoned disagreement, and as such ascribe cynical motives to those who think about things a different way. We see this in the ongoing veneration of "facts," the ones peddled by explainer websites and data journalists who believe themselves to be curiously post-ideological.

That the explainers and data journalists so frequently get things hilariously wrong never invites the soul-searching you'd think it would. Instead, it all just somehow leads us to more smugness, more meanness, more certainty from the reporters and pundits. Faced with defeat, we retreat further into our bubble, assumptions left unchecked. No, it's the voters who are wrong.

As a direct result, we get it wrong with greater frequency. Out on the road, we forget to ask the right questions. We can't even imagine the right question. We go into assignments too certain that what we find will serve to justify our biases. The public's estimation of the press declines even further -- fewer than one-in-three Americans trust the press, per Gallup -- which starts the cycle anew.

There's a place for opinionated journalism; in fact, it's vital. But our causal, profession-wide smugness and protestations of superiority are making us unable to do it well.
Our theme now should be humility. We must become more impartial, not less so. We have to abandon our easy culture of tantrums and recrimination. We have to stop writing these know-it-all, 140-character sermons on social media and admit that, as a class, journalists have a shamefully limited understanding of the country we cover.

What's worse, we don't make much of an effort to really understand, and with too few exceptions, treat the economic grievances of Middle America like they're some sort of punchline. Sometimes quite literally so, such as when reporters tweet out a photo of racist-looking Trump supporters and jokingly suggest that they must be upset about free trade or low wages.
We have to fix this, and the broken reasoning behind it. There's a fleeting fun to gang-ups and groupthink. But it's not worth what we are losing in the process.


Article here:   http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-the-unbearable-smugness-of-the-press-presidential-election-2016/

[BruceK]

At the risk of offending some by posting a lot of text, I will only include this well-written comment to the above article (found on the same CBS News site) and promise not do this again.

______________________________________________________________

Brett Vining 6 hours ago

Re: Unbearable smugness

Unbelievably accurate, but only the tip. As a lawyer who finally just shut up instead of listen to people call me a racist woman hater, I just shut up.  Then voted.
The left has dismissed the other side instead of debating.  So when you dismiss the other side you don't get a debate.  What you get is a bubble, an echo chamber, where all you hear is yourself and your very intellectual friends who are also smart like you.
You are a journalist. You should also be concerned that you created a public that in part went into hiding rather than tell pollsters what they think.  So don't be surprised when they vote it doesn't match what you had been hearing. You shut them up.

You are only half there. Go to the 100,000 foot level.  Your entire liberal worldview as journalists is exactly this...that the educated elite know better than the rest.  So don't be surprised you execute your job that way.

Further to the point...your own party (Democrats) gave superdelegates...the elite...all the power, so they could pick the successor when the 'less informed' electorate just can't be trusted. So don't be surprised that your worldview in journalism is just as arrogant and elitist.

Further to the point...the republican party allowed their members to select their candidate, much to the chagrin of the party elite. Sixteen...that's sixteen...republican candidates of all backgrounds, black, white, old, young, women, hispanic....took a shot in the republican primaries, far more diverse than the democrats. Yet you journalists called the party non diverse.  These people know their party better than you, and they didn't think it a racist, woman hating party.  Contrast....the Democrat machine allowed one old white corrupt person...no other democrat was allowed...only an INDEPENDENT old white man came in, that they couldn't control, and almost beat her.
The democrate party worldview is NOT democratic.  Its elitist, which is why liberalism is much closer to totalitarianism than they realize.  It became, and remains, so arrogant, it calls the other side black and white, and intolerant, when in fact they are.

Its worse.  Its corrupt. There is no way any other President would get away with openly suggesting noncitizens can vote. They aren't concerend with voters rights and integrity of democratic voting (see above).  Its about getting power corruptly.  Don't even show an ID.  Every corrupt vote counts.  No way any other candidate who somehow got super rich off of government jobs would be treated so lightly and allowed to lead the country.  No way a candidate who had so many times lied to the American people while in office, would be asked to lead the country without a serious challenge by the press.  No way a candidate who admitted having a public and a private positions would get away with it by the press.  You worry about a groper? After Bill Clinton? Seriously?
May I suggest you take a more serious look at man made global warming skeptic positions now, instead of calling us 'denialists'.  This is the exact same thing going on. Some of your leaders in the democratic party, attorney generals, have tried to prosecute...yes prosecute... those challenging man made global warming theory....shut down opposing speech on this issue.  See above, liberals tending to shut down speech.  The first step is to dismiss the other side.  The next is to make speaking on the other side illegal.  Textbooks too...look at the Portland school board voting to take any reference to the opposing side on man made global warming OUT of school textbooks for a million students.  Shutting it down.

The democratic party is a machine that will take this country to a place where there is no free speech.  They would do so with the internet, just as they did with the Fairness Doctrine in radio and TV before Reagan shut that doctrine down.  It wasn't fair at all.
Thank god we still have an open internet. 


.

[Jims5543]

God no! Trump is bad enough, but Pence? Jeez louise

I'm glad you got your man Jim, and I honestly and sincerely hope things work out well for all of us, cause we all live here and we all live under the same rules.......

I was never a Hillary supporter either, to me two bad choices is no choice at all.

I was open minded with Obama even though I did not think either was a good choice Romney was bad too. After his first term I wanted him gone. He did most his damage to me during his second term. I knew Obamacare was going to suck, anytime government touches something it turns to shit.

If Trump turns out to be a lame duck I will be 1st in line to vote his ass out and will be very vocal that I made a mistake and he sucks. I am not a party tower that blindly follows. I did know Clinton was bad for this country and could not be in the WH.

I hear Kanye West is running in 2020. A porn star 1st lady sounds right by then.

If you read that above, watch this. If you have time.  Should make it clear what half of America wants him.

[jeff10049]

I will be forced to drop my insurance for the first time in my life next year I just got my Obamacare (as the insurance company and Obama himself call it) rate increase notice and it is totally fucking out of control over 5 times what I used to pay well over  my house payment now for shit coverage literally covers almost nothing at all. When I used to have a 20 dollar copay and zero deductible I will just pay the fine I can't and won't do it any longer even a major problem like a heart attack I only need to make it about three years to beat the system if I invest the money id be paying. plus the yearly out of pocket max id be able to negotiate cash for even a major problem and just pay. If I get cancer or something oh well Obamacare would fuck me anyway as the yearly out of pocket would kill me in about two years. My parents cost had tripled to 2800 per month for 2 fairly healthy people but they are old enough for medicare now and free from that burden.

[Jims5543]

No matter whether you were shocked, or pleased, about the election outcome, I ask that you read this article from a CBS News contributor. 

I think it is a pretty darn good self-reflection piece.  It's long, but worth it.

Not offended, I thought both the article and the lawyers comment to be very insightful. Thank you for sharing.


When GW Bush was running for his second term, I remember getting into a pretty good argument with a co worker over him, I was dead set against him getting in for a second term, he was an idiot and was playing this nation for his own enrichment and ruining us by running up our deficit at a breathtaking rate. Yes it was breathtaking back then, now it is just another day for us, we have grown complacent with this deficit spending.


When Obama was running for his second term I was against him too, he is / was trying to turn this county into a poor socialist nation with their hands out waiting for the government to feed them.  Hungry dependent poor people make good voters.  The last 8 years have been VERY anti small business and to be honest anti business in general, many have spoken out over this.  While our "official" unemployment rate is 5-6% it is really 19-21% which is staggering. 

I said this once, I will say it again, if Trump is not effective in the WH, I will be one of the first to scream to get him out of there. The sad part is, what alternative do we have? I shudder at the thought of what Clinton would have done in there. I am pretty worried as to what will happen if Trump cannot follow through on his promises and we go back to the same ol same ol career politician / liar.

If Trump does not come through, I will wonder if it is because he was full of shit, or is he being railroaded because he is not in insider. One thing is for sure, he will let the nation know. Because of that, I am wondering if he will even make it to the inauguration.

All this unrest we see is way too organized, the lines of buses and as I found out last night  the craigslist ads hiring protesters. Something is at play here behind the scenes and I am not sure what the end game is yet. I do know this, and I am not being a drama queen here, Trump is in grave danger. He may not live to see the office.

Such a sad state of affairs and the Media is fanning the flames and cheering it on. Also notice this interesting tidbit, where is everyone from celebrities to the masses threatening to leave the USA to?  Canada right?  No one wants to go to Mexico?  Interesting, who are the racists?

[Jims5543]

This is gold.

[jeff10049]

Ha ha  :D That was the first thing I thought when people were saying that. HOW tell me just how are you going to get in? Just tell them you're mad at this country and expect to be greeted with open arms? Morons.

I also have to wonder why I haven't heard a single one say they are going to Mexico are all those people racist or something? If you invest in Mexico and create 3 local jobs you can get a tempory residency permit and go from there, it's easier than Canada and you're helping a local economy.

Oh, that's right you'd have to have money to invest and know how to run a business and take care of yourself...Nevermind not a good choice for the average flee the U.S.A. type.

Or like New Zeland they also have a skilled trades points system but I don't think cry baby is a skill they are looking for right now. :D you have to actually know how to work.

[Jims5543]

When Obama made his second term I was quietly looking at moving out. I was looking at Italy, my motherland you could say.  Then I read up on what it takes to move there, money in the bank, a good marketable trade, a sponsor to vouch for you. Bonus if you have an employer lined up to sponsor you.  In other words, you are not coming in and getting on their social services.

When I say I was quietly looking I did not make posts on FB or any other social media that I was pissed and was leaving. I was just weighing my options. I knew I could survive Obamas 8 years, but did I want to?  This thread is the first time I am ever mentioning what my intentions were back then.

To be honest, I am glad I stayed, looking at the immigration problem Europe is having we should be appreciative that the folks from Mexico that are flooding in do not want to kill all us infidels.

[jeff10049]

We, Wife and I have been looking at New Zeland for a few years it didn't start due to any political reason just a love for New Zeland.

But we looked especially hard during obama same reason as you. Do we want to tough it out? it has been very hard on my business to the point of considering closure. And what he's done to cut the benefits for disabled people, like my wife's adopted sister that we care for people, who don't know or supported his administration  try and dismiss it or look up some bs on the net. But the cuts are real we see the reduction all the time, he is more interested in taking care of white trash and deadbeats than those that truly need it .
I'm going to wait and see what happens if the crap quits coming down the pipeline from above I will be very very happy it's getting to the point we should just send employees a pay check and they just sit home on their asses. The past 8 years of regulation are now costing me an additional 25k a year in employee freebies and other BS and they lost their health care because a business my size can't afford it anymore also pulled all bonuses to cover the mandatory crap. My employees are wishing things would go back to the way they were everyone was happier. Except the deadbeats of the world. I don't know if or what it will take to reverse any of this..  (just a note that all the business owners I know are fighting the same problems so it's not just us) Anyway enough of that rant back to New Zeland.


She lived there for 5 years and can go back anytime she has a permanent resident card there as well as here I looked into it as well and can get in on the points system being married to a resident is good for points my age is good and I have an in-demand skilled trade to top it off.

I receive job offers weekly from Armstrong motors as I signed up to a site called New Zeland now. It's still another 5 plus years after getting there to become a permanent resident Immigrating to any country other than U.S.A. is tough.

We may move on this in the next few years before my age becomes a point reducer I would like to spend winters there summers here at some point. The really cool thing is if we outright move there and I start a business  taxes are less than I pay here and I get health care. The next couple years will help the decision. 

We want to be part timers no matter what if we can make it happen. Wife is also finishing up a bachelor's degree over the next year or so and wants to have that done before we make any decisions.

What started as a personal choice to try something different was/is starting to become a more affordable lower BS living choice. When She first looked at moving back we decided we couldn't have the lifestyle this country offers that has been rapidly changing we'll see what happens.

I hope things get back on track and my business can grow i'm not ready to jump ship yet. You get tired of busting your ass for little reward after a while.
I know I would not want to be an employee in my field right now the shops are struggling and the mood is poor but employees and employers alike are pushing on I'm still moving forward with a growth phase fingers crossed.
The mood has been all smiles in the working class since the election things seem way more upbeat in the whole business complex I'm in the landlord just trimmed up everything did some painting, the empty units are filling up I'm getting job applicants again finally.
Looking forward and hoping like hell Trump isn't a Joker.




 

[John Gervais]

Jeff, what type of business do you have?

[Jims5543]

Jeff, I went from 25 employees in 2004 to 6 in 2008 then 1 (me) in 2011 and then considered closing shop and doing something else.

Then in late 2011 I saw some life in the Mortgage industry and in 2012 houses were being built for the 1st time in 4 years.

In 2015 I had a very good year, BUT, with only a staff of 3 employees. It is not what is was nor will it ever be for a long while.

In 2016 I am seeing it slow down again, hence by Tin Foil Hat thread.  I am not going to have the year I had last year which was a good year for me.  I also see things before everyone else, therefore I feel we are at the turning point already, there is a downturn coming and this time I think it is going to be the ugly mess that Obama pushed off by dumping a metric fuckton of money into the banking system. There is no more money to give and I honestly do not think Trump is going to push for it. Banks are going to fail see Greece and Venezuela for reference. 

What sucks is, like you Jeff, my employees are suffering. I no longer offer Health Insurance, I no longer give out RETARDED bonuses.  I do give out yearly bonuses but it is not like it used to be.

I honestly do not see how things are going to be better.  We stopped the bleeding, maybe, I hope Trump can take a sensible approach to this 20 Trillion in debt that will never be paid.

He ran his campaign with 1/5 the personnel, and  1/2 the money and won.  What does that tell you?   He did more with less. Washington must be shitting themselves because a man that everyone rallied against, and out spent 2 to 1 won.

What is to come?  I have been pondering that myself, I feel like whoever won, just took the helm of the Titanic..  It really does not matter, the last 16 years have destroyed this country and the only glimmer of hope we have is that a crooked New World Order (yeah I typed that) politician has been ousted, and a non-politician non-insider has been put in high power and he has an itchy twitter finger.  Which I love.

I, for one, have been investing in precious metal. Gold and Silver. I have depleted my bank accounts and keep very little in them. I think the next crash is banks. Trump may unwittingly usher that in. Clinton would have given us 4 more years of the same head in the sand nothing to see here move along living.

I saw this post on another forum where a guy I respect a lot and has called a lot of financial events correctly posted.  It is a discussion on the housing market vs. the Fed interest rates and if it is going to crash. I highlighted a clue hie gives in his posts. I agree with him, Gold is artificially low right now, Good time to invest @1200 an ounce, I think it will head up to 5K an ounce. At the very least 3K.

With a sub 2% growth rate for the year the FED CAN NOT raise rates...The Equity market is still virtually flat since the end of QE3 in December 2014 SP500 is at 2181. Bonds interest rates when there is palpable fear drop into the cellar of 1.4% on the 10 year...now they have moved to the higher end of the recent trading range at 2.38%...last qtr GDP was 2.9%...hmmm. Oil has been falling off as of late, with a stronger USD. If you note the USD got stronger after the end of QE3...in 2014. Gold is off because of the USD as well.

Housing has totally been a rigged market since 2012. I still go by lots and lots of dark houses and empty shopping centers....GET A GRIP...

The FED was buying 45B a month in mortgage backed securities for almost 2 years...that is roughly $800B in mortgages that they own...and those are apparently off the market...shadow inventory.

QUESTION has BO or Congress said BOOO about anything concerning fiscal policy since 2012???

Answer is no they have not.

Why?????

Answer, Every time that they do something the Herd gets spooked and the economy and markets get real jittery and fall off the cliff. Nobody trusts the government to act as adults anymore.

Hence the FED and other Central Banks are the locus of power in the world. When they speak Markets react.


There is the Central Banks and there is the Herd...which all of you are part of even if you are not the prime movers. Since 2008 when GW SPOOKED THE HERD it has been a different world as now they get real nervous...

And NOTHING HAS BEEN FIXED, just STABILIZED at the cost of undermining the USD and Credit worthiness of the USA...From 11T in 2008 to 20T in 2016, From 800B on the FED balance sheet to 4.5T in 2016 and a 0.25% over night lending rate...Yep that is sure an economic recovery with that 1.8% year over year growth rate for the last 8 years...and ya dumb fks it ain't BO that is causing it...while BO did't help and maybe just maybe Trump will????? There are long term systemic forces at work...forces that you know put the economy on a trajectory to oblivion.

..they have cover with a 3rd qtr 2.9% growth rate....so as they have been itching to pull the trigger...

But I have influenced them before...do I have to show you again what did it?

Your thinking is so prosaic.

That is the problem that no matter how intelligent, educated or accomplished I find almost everybody's thinking to be prosaic... It is as if you are working, living and thinking in a valley and can not see the long view as ordinary daily events consume your thinking. You are not free from your own internal constraints to be able to stand on the hill and get an overview.. Then it helps to be able to abstract spatially to be able to see process and how mechanisms work.

[jeff10049]

Jim you replied while I was typing this so I stopped and read it befor posting your reply reflects some of what I say below. The head in the sand is the holding pattern we've been in for 6+ years.

RV Repair and service and RV towed vehicle setup is our main business.
Bought a CNC plasma table about a year ago and is going well we are incorporating and making it a separate business we make a lot of our own parts now and bring in a fair amount of outside work for it along with press brake capabilities we can fab our own compartment doors for the collision repair side of things. And have been doing so for other RV shops as well.
Might also make some classic mini panels at some point.

I have also done automotive repair for most my working life we have a small referral only base of customers mostly new MINIS that we service the automotive side of the shop does about 1 complete high-end restoration a year as well (have to brag a little here we have pebble beach top winning cars out there) in the shop now is a 64 fuel injected corvette out of New York.

We also do fab work and Some automotive repair/ upgrades for the USDA Forest Service and maintain some well site generators for them.

We have a fairly diverse business and stay busy for all my bitching above I still have a lot to be happy about.

But my bitching isn't just me spewing BS it has been tough and when you work closely with some government agency's like we do Forest service, ODF, and law enforcement you see a lot on that side as well.
I can't even begin to describe the shit show created during the last 8 years when it comes to federal contracting and payment and on and on. It says something when every single person you talk to in all of the above agency's 100% disliked the current administration. It trickles down to guys like me and it's no fun for us either.

That's why I'm hopeful for the future of this country and my company something needed to give. it's kinda still been business as normal the world has to keep going but the last 6 years it's been going down hill the first couple were ok everyone thought lets give it a chance. Then things started to suck then we he got a second term the mood really went sour the last 4 years have taken a toll.

I was at the Forest Service right after the election and you couldn't have wiped the smiles off everybody's faces for nothing haven't seen a good mood like that down there in 6 years. Everything has just sorta been in a holding pattern waiting to see what's going to happen for like 4 years maybe now we can get back to work.

Some deals obama made with the UN involving our public forest land really set a bad mood with some of the forestry law enforcement they outright refused to uphold the law and tell people to stay off the land.
I'm really hopeful this stuff can/will be reversed it's hard to be happy joy when you can't even legally take a drive on most public lands around here anymore.

That also took a huge toll on the smaller rv sector of our business no more dispersed camping more than x feet from a main road but oh by the way we closed most those so you're SOL sorry have to go to a camp ground with 10,000 other people.

Trump has a shit ton of work cut out for him if he wants to make America great again I wouldn't know where to start.

[jeff10049]

RE-reading your post Jim is depressing I almost have a feeling of  too little too late. Some days just want to liquidate everything and GTF out of here to somewhere with a brighter outlook. I'll feel a lot better if some shit starts getting done right away next year.

Looks like every working person in the us has an extra $166,666.00 or so dollars to pay back to get us out of the red that could take 100+ years.

[Jims5543]

RE-reading your post Jim is depressing I almost have a feeling of  too little too late. Some days just want to liquidate everything and GTF out of here to somewhere with a brighter outlook. I'll feel a lot better if some shit starts getting done right away next year.

Looks like every working person in the us has an extra $166,666.00 or so dollars to pay back to get us out of the red that could take 100+ years.

Yes it is scary and depressing and the worst part? Everyone thinks of us as the "stupid" Trump voters. Most of this nation has no clue what is going on how much the government is invested in the housing market and banks. How these last 4 years have been artificial. We are going to crash hard and when we do, there will be no more lines for iphones and there may actually be lines for food and basic daily needs.

I hope I am wrong, the problem is I see too many brilliant financial minds that think this is coming.  I posted a video in the Tin foil Hat thread where even Trump knows.

The only glimmer of hope I see is that he has this idea, the USA has to stop being the world police for free.  If you want us, then pay.  This may be a windfall of either a lot of money coming it to subsidize our military budget or we pull in troops, stop wars, close bases and not need to spend as much on the military fighting useless wars with no end in sight.

I am too busy to really gather my thoughts right now. I do know we may have made a turn in the right direction. It may be too late though.

[MiniDave]

I would really like us to become a country that others aspire too rather than fear...to that end sticking our noses out of other peoples business would be my top priority - and that means stop spending trillions of dollars (and even more importantly - American lives) in the sandbox trying to change millennia's of in-bred hatred between people with our bombs and guns and soldiers lives.

However, our arms and munitions business is second in size only to the car business in this country, I seriously doubt they'll all give up such a lucrative endeavor to build a better fry pan or something.

Point being - big business runs this country and one of the biggest is the military industrial complex, they will not give up their piece of the pie....consequently they need a few wars going on to keep in bidness......and if they don't supply the "insurgents", someone else will....might as well keep the money flowing here, huh?

[MPlayle]

You can bet Russia would love to take over the world arms supplier business from the US.

One wonders where groups like ISIS keep getting their supply of arms?  They should have long ago used up the supply from when the US first tried to leave Iraq and left behind stuff for the Iraqi army to use.

[MiniDave]

Russia, Israel, France, China, Germany......there is no shortage of countries making war stuff.....but I'll bet we make more than any of them, maybe more than all of them combined.

You know how it is, build a better gun, sooner or later you want to go try it out in "real world" conditions..... ::)

[Jims5543]

You guys must watch CNN an lot. It is pretty common knowledge that Hillary was behind arming our "enemy".

This election result stopped a trojan horse from being deployed in our country. While I am sure we have our share of home grown terrorists and illegal immigrants that have come in from our southern border, it does not compare to what would have been if she was elected. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3833844/Marc-Turi-says-Clinton-Obama-accidentally-gave-guns-ISIS-Al-Qaeda-Benghazi-attackers-tried-scapegoat-screw-up.html


http://www.angrypatriotmovement.com/hillary-sold-weapons-to-terrorists/


http://dailyoccupation.com/2016/10/05/wikileaks-hillary-sold-weapons-isis/

I can keep posting links all day. It is widely reported..... from everyone except main stream media.

[MiniDave]

Jim, I don't understand your point......I would like us to get out of the "going to other countries and forcing some freedom on them" business. My point is that the people who make wars parts don't want us out of that business.

It's clear how you feel about Obama and the Clintons, continued blasts like this aren't necessary.

[Jims5543]

One wonders where groups like ISIS keep getting their supply of arms?  They should have long ago used up the supply from when the US first tried to leave Iraq and left behind stuff for the Iraqi army to use.

I was answering this question.  You alluded to it as well Dave. We sell weapons to our enemies, fight "wars" with them, telling them we are coming to get them when and where are are going to be, then have "battles" with them where a staggering amount of civilians are killed and displaced.  Sell them more weapons.  Repeat.

This shit has to stop. I hope this is the turning point where this ends.


For the record I think GW Bush  was a retard that was pushed into that Iraqi war by Rumsfeld and Cheney.  When he took his second term he ruined this nation more than he did during his first. Same goes for Obama and thank god we did not get Clinton in there. Lets hope and pray we have a combo breaker in the WH.

[Jims5543]

Dave,

First and foremost I love this country and am proud to call myself an American. I am very happy my family immigrated here in the early 1900's to make a better life through the opportunities this great country can provide.

I am registered as a independent, I do not identify with general policies of either a Democrat nor Republican.  I thought GW Bush was a flaming idiot, I think Obama had good intentions with Obamacare but let politicians do what they do in order to get it passed. Sadly, special interest groups who paid politicians to be interested in them, ruined what could have been good.

I have been slowly writing my thoughts on Obamacare and what went wrong. One day I will copy paste here. I am still doing research on some items pertinent to my opinion.

I think typical government policies over the last 20+ years suck. I think if we, as a nation of people that love this country, do not put a stop to what is going on in Washington, the United States as we know it, will cease to exist. I fear that time may occur when my kids are my age and I am long gone.

There is going to be a reset, if things do not change, and it is not going to be pretty.

I greatly disliked Hillary as a presidential candidate, I was not fond of Bernie, free shit for everyone, Sanders, he at least was not to the core corrupt like she is. I think a Dem would be in the WH if Bernie had been permitted to run. If you bother to look at Wikileaks you would know Bernie was never running for POTUS, he was a pawn on the game board.

I do not hate Obama, I do not like how he has impacted my life and I do not like a lot of his policies, I think he has set back race relations in this country (along with MSM) many years. I think he has not been looking out for the best interests of this country and neither would the Clintons.  NAFTA was a Clinton baby, PTT was a Obama baby, notice how both are about to collapse and Trump has not even stepped foot in the WH yet.


To be fair, I also applauded Bill Clinton for balancing the budget while in office, it was a step in the right direction.  GW the moment he took office reversed all that, remember him sending out surplus checks to every taxpaying American?  I shook my head at the stupidity of that, he set the stage of what was to come, no regard for our nation and a spending spree that was indeed breathtaking.  Sadly, as I have mentioned before it is no longer shocking that trillions are being run up in nation debt with no hope of ever paying it off.

They are all idiots, I really hope and pray things are changing.  If Trump turns out to be a lame duck, as I have said many times, I will be very vocal. I do not like Pence at all, I do not like that Romney is floating around now too.  I dislike Gingrich VERY much he is a POS more of the same politician.

If you only watch MSM, then you have no clue how big of a bullet we ducked with Clinton.  She was dirty to the core and they both always have been.  I am not saying Trump is the ideal president, he has no idea what he got himself into.  All I can say is I am happy a man with a itchy twitter is in office.

When someone ponders where ISIS is getting its funding or weapons I have to wonder how anyone today can ask a question like that, it has been plainly spelled out in Wikileaks. (yes I have read a lot of it and it makes House of Cards on Netflix look like non-fiction)

I hope it is not too late to save this country, while are all busy buying the new iphones and being distracted by whatever BS the MSM deems is important to us, we are on the brink of a total global financial collapse.  I hope we can find a way through that is painless. I fear we may not.