Most exciting car thing in awhile

[94touring]

Yeah typically it's a degree per psi but going up 5psi with water/meth is a different ballgame.  I've met Steve several times back when I put on rotary car shows. 

[94touring]

After more research am thinking a split system that injects pre and post turbo.  Ideally you have some pre injection to keep the turbo at it's peak efficiency, gaining big top end power, but the more you spray will cause a lag simply due to friction of water on the impeller.  This is why the dyno graph with pre injection has a lower midrange as the turbo spools slower.  Guys are dividing it up and getting best of both worlds. 

[94touring]

Ta da

[MiniDave]

It's ............................................a snail!

[John Gervais]

If you put an 'S' on the back, we could say "Hey, look at that escargot!"

[MPlayle]

Nissan made an 'S Cargo'!

[John Gervais]

Yikes!

My 'escargot' joke was a feeble attempt at trying to tie in with the movie quote thread.  In the film 'Trading Places', an 'S' car go joke was told by a not so funny 'stuffy' character.   :-[

[MPlayle]

That is alright, John.

The Nissan was reputed to be a bit of a snail in performance.

[MPlayle]

Here is something rotary powered for Dan or Jim to maybe enjoy:

http://www.wirewheel.com/1992-Maxton-Rollerskate-for-sale.html

[94touring]

Not my cup of tea but I did see a cosmo for sale recently that would be cool.

[Jims5543]

Not my cup of tea but I did see a cosmo for sale recently that would be cool.

A Cosmo would be cool, you could make a hell of a 600+ HP sleeper out of one, except one problem they are all Automatics.  I may be wrong but I have never seen or heard of a manual Cosmo.


That Rollerskate is a couple towns north of me.  That 12A rotaty may be making 100 HP on a good day, I am sure the car is light and nimble and fun... and noisy as hell.

[94touring]

Didn't know the cosmos were only automatics, but I'd probably use it as my family car/grocery getter/airport car anyways.  Then smoke everyone on the street.

[Jims5543]

I am 90% the Cosmo only comes with an Auto.  The problem then is how much can the slushbox take HP wise?

It is super easy to get 550 HP out of a 20B, can the rest of the car handle it. I think they have about 300HP stock.

[MiniDave]

Early Cosmos were 5 speed manuals - later cars were a lot larger and I don't know about the transmichigan.......but I can't image it being impossible to swap the gearbox along with the engine.

[Jims5543]

Yes the early models came with a 5 speed manual and a 2 rotor engine. Once they dropped the 3 Rotor in I am 90% sure they did not offer it with a Manual transmission I have no idea why I just know Mazda did not offer it

I want to say the 20B Cosmo came out in 1991, I think it was a year or so before the FD or 3rd Gen RX7 came out, you could get the 2 rotor twin turbo or pay a bunch and get the 3 Rotor twin. It came stock with 300HP but with a few upgrades 500+ HP was very easy to get and you were not even pushing the engine hard. When you started to push like Dan is sort of doing with his 2 Rotor you started to hit the 800HP mark with them.

Every single 20B I have even seen imported from Japan was Auto, the first thing you had to do with them was pull the flywheel and put a Manual one on. That is not to say there were not Manual engines, maybe those cars were even rarer since it was a luxury car, but I have never heard of anyone getting a Manual Engine from Japan.

My dream has always been to drop a 500+HP 20B into a Factory Five Cobra, the sacrilege factor alone makes it worth it. Plus I think an 1800 lb FF5 chasis would be a blast with a low torque rotary in it.  Less of a tire smoke machine and more fun to drive.

[94touring]

I assume guys are putting fd trannies on the 20b's when the do engine swaps?

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

But the cosmo came with the 20B from the factory.
I mean, if they're swapping it into an FD sure.

Dat 3 rotor goodness. Dat sound.

HNNNNG.

[MiniDave]

Wiki says the third gen Cosmo 1990-1996 only came with a four speed electronically controlled auto transmission. The car was marketed as a high performance luxury coupe - hence the auto.

also the most expensive car Mazda has tried to sell to date.......

[94touring]

3 rotors are mean sounding.  But the ultimate is a 4 rotor pp port!

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Someone do a 20b swap into a mini. And a 787 swap into... anything.

[Merlin]

looking at the pre/post graph, i would be interested to know if they tuned for the meth before running it on the dyno. The meth increases octane, so more timing is in order, however if it is not tuned in, it just displaces oxygen and richens the mixture. Probably why there is a boost in torque in the mid-range but a loss at the time where lean power is preferred.

I have had nothing but good luck with meth (or green windshield washer fluid) The water reduced temp and meth increased octane, but tune too aggressively and you better have some sort of method of determining if your reservoir is empty. I have always preferred the windshield washer reservoir, especially if it has a low level switch.

Edit:

I just realized that the statement was pre or post turbo installation. disregard the graphs and my statement would be to install post turbo.

Since the heat of vaporization won't happen at ambient temperature, I would think that spraying it pre turbo would not be as beneficial than post turbo where the air is compressed and can be cooled through heat transfer of the water without pulling heat from the turbine housing which would be the first hot thing in contact with the water. This would flash the water and reducing the effectiveness per lbs injected. I would also be concerned with shock cooling the turbine wheel.

[94touring]

I'll have to redial in my air/fuel as the meth richens the mixture.  There is a low fluid sensor so you don't run out, go lean, and blow up.  My understanding is pre injection will momentarily bog the turbo down, but increase efficiency to top performance on the top end.  So you loose some spool initially.  I'd probably do a twin setup where there's some pre injection and more post injection.  Try to get best of both worlds.

[94touring]

I'll add that guys were doing full pre injection on smallish turbos  (60-1) and making ridiculous horsepower just because the efficiency is increased dramatically.  Like 100hp over what you normally see on the same turbo.