Jen and I have been looking into getting a scooter recently, and so I started the research. We've very recently moved our business into an office a handful of blocks from where we live downtown. The idea is Jen uses it to get around downtown without having to walk or pay for parking with her car. Parking can be difficult to find occasionally too and the office has an alleyway and potentially a basement they might let us park it in. Plus we can use it to pop down to the riverwalk, rather than hoof it there from here or drive a car down there. It's going to be part of the camp equipment also. The bus will stay setup at the campsite and the scooter will be used to pop into town and up into the park. Hence the 4x6 foot trailer I recently put together. Not knowing anything about scooters it took some time researching what to look for and avoid. I flew with a guy who restores them and he had great advice that matched what the internet seemed to be saying too, which was don't buy anything from China. That narrowed it down to pretty much Tawain and of course Vespa from Italy. My buddy said skip buying a vespa because they're basically expensive fancy handbags with the same performance as a list of other equivalent scooters. I was all on board not paying extra for a vespa till we went and looked at vespas. I had it narrowed down to a few other scooter brands, all in the 150-170cc range and fuel injected. 50cc being pointless it's so slow. We don't plan to race the thing but it needs some oomph to go up a mountain with both of us on it. Doing 55-60mph if we needed to should we get on a highway is ideal also, rather than get run over. Couple perks to the vespa were we didn't care for the colors or styling of the other scooters. And if you're going to pay some money for something you intend to use and keep forever, you're going to want something you like looking at. Also it has a bigger gas tank. 2.1 gallons vs 1.5 gallons in many cases. They of course get 80 to 100 miles per gallon. The 150cc vespa has more power than the 169cc that the other scooters had. And it's a business expense so we'll write the thing off on our taxes anyways. This is what I think we're set on getting.
I have not ridden a Vespa, but have ridden a few different scooters over time.
Do not even bother with a 50cc, you are lucky to get over 30 mph on a flat road. I would only ride one of these around my neighborhood, nothing further (bit like a neighborhood golf cart).
The 125cc/150cc are good with a single person, but with 2 people they really struggle. I would not recommend riding them on a highway with 2 people as even a small incline the can struggle to maintain decent speed.
Vespa do a 300cc model, and I have ridden a couple of bigger engined scooters, and in my opinion, if you want to ride at highway speeds with 2-up this is the way to go.
They had some 300cc models there, but they're pretty big. You'd almost be better off just buying a motorcycle at that point.
Okay, they are not technically scooters, but the Honda Cub (the most mass-produced vehicle in the world) and the Honda Trail might possibly be of interest. Neither look like they belong on a sidewalk in a classic scene in Rome, but they would not be out of place anywhere else. The Trail has camping written all over it. Both have 125cc fuel injected engines, by Honda of course.
Yeah, no way Jen would be caught on one of those. She's pretty particular on the styling. There were a couple bikes at the dealership she thought looked nice enough though.
Having ridden a 200cc motorcycle in college as a "commuter bike" and "only transportation", I tend to agree with Craig about going with the bigger engines. I rode that bike everywhere (including from San Antonio to Austin for events/activities) and often wished it had just a bit more power to it.
A 300cc Vespa will keep the Scooter image/feel and have the power to handle the uses you've described.
If you pay attention to where you see the various sized scooters being ridden, you will notice very few on highways and those that are on highways are always the larger ones.
You will also want the extra power in the moutains.
A 300cc Scooter will likely still get the office management cooperative in allowing it inside versus a small motorcycle - the image thing coming into play.
The camp/trail types Bruce mentioned are okay for a single rider - too small an engine for riding two-up.
This won't be a highway cruiser. 25-45mph 95% of the time driving speed limits. Only time I can think it would be in a 55mph zone is if I'm broken down in BFE Colorado again and need to drive 150 miles to the airport to fly home and get my truck and big trailer.
It is more a recommendation for the "have it and not need it ..." philosphy. A 150cc scooter will "just" manage two-up riding around town in the 25-45 mph range, but not have anything for the rare instnace when more is needed. It will also barely handle one-up riding at 55 mph for distance in your "travel emergency" scenario and will be taxing on you riding much distance.
As a motorcyclist, I have not been a "fan" of the "as much power as possible" approach. I do believe in having a little "safety overhead" for however the bike/scooter is to be used.
Also, take a rider's course and get a full motorcycle endorsement on your driver's license.
There just aren't any scenerios where I need to do 80mph that the 300cc can do. Especially for the price tag. This 150 reading the forums can do 65mph in a no wind straight and level scenario. Vespa rates it for 59mph. Worse case driving scenerio I found was 38mph up a steep pass into the wind. It's 35mph in these parks with 25mph in some areas. A lot of these campers you get stuck behind are lucky to do 35. It's level ground from our house 5 blocks to the office. It will be just fine.
I think we all agree that the 50cc versions of pretty much anything are basically completely useless.
I think the 150-180cc versions are absolutely brilliant for zipping about "downtown", piddling about around campgrounds, state parks, that sort of thing. They are small and light so easy to handle but big enough you don't feel like an adult riding a child sized bicycle. Never been on one with 2 people but I can't imagine it wouldn't still be sufficient for the above usage. I would probably never get on an actual highway with one, but these days with everyone on their cell phones 24-7 that is a risky proposition on any 2 wheeled contraption.
If you think you need something bigger than the 150 range you might as well just buy a motorcycle, I don't personally see the usefulness of a "scooter" that large.
I don't have much use in my area for a scooter of any type though and I have always been a more power is better kind of bike guy so I certainly don't have a lot of experience with lower CC stuff.
Edit to add that I have always liked the styling of the old Vespa's and always thought it would be neat to restore one if I ever ran across one that was cheap. It looks like the newer ones still have that classic look so that is cool!
Who made the "Burgman" scooter? Or how about a Honda Elite? J/K
I like the look of that Vespa
Quote from: MiniDave on February 21, 2023, 02:48:09 PMWho made the "Burgman" scooter? Or how about a Honda Elite? J/K
I like the look of that Vespa
Lol. Had to look those up. Jen distinctly despises the sport bike looking scooters. That would be a tough sell lol
LOL on the Burgman. I have no idea what they were trying to accomplish with that thing but whoever was in charge of that design work should be fired for sure. It's like they took a Goldwing fairing and attached it to a scooter chassis/power plant......absolutely hideous.
Yes but....650cc of raw powah!!!
Honda Elite's were pretty cool, 250cc
(https://cdn.cycletrader.com/topics/honda-elite.png)
Here's my scooter !
I live waay out in the country - but - - If I lived in a city/town, I'd love me a 300cc Vespa however.
I love the whole look of them.
Quote from: MiniDave on February 21, 2023, 03:52:55 PMHonda Elite's were pretty cool, 250cc
Yeah those are not terrible, they at least look like a scooter!
I had a Honda Metropolitan (50cc) almost 20 years ago. Fun, but you needed to have clean oil, overfilled tires and skip breakfast to maybe hit 38 mph. Worked ok for my 40 mile round trip Maine back road commute in those days.
I would get a Vespa 150 if I ever went back to one.
Quote from: ADRay on February 22, 2023, 06:32:51 AMI had a Honda Metropolitan (50cc) almost 20 years ago. Fun, but you needed to have clean oil, overfilled tires and skip breakfast to maybe hit 38 mph. Worked ok for my 40 mile round trip Maine back road commute in those days.
I would get a Vespa 150 if I ever went back to one.
I've watched a couple YouTube reviews and it definitely can do 65. Seems to get up to 40-45 pretty quickly. Interesting to see you can come to a complete stop and not have to put a foot down to not tip over too. Low cg I guess.
Any of the scooter experts familiar with swapping out rollers? I was reading through various modifications and seems as though on this particular model that going from the stock 15g rollers to 12.5 really makes a difference in acceleration and hill climbing. Those not familiar with what these are, it allows the engine to shift later so you're in a higher rpm and ideally weighted to the fat part of the powerband. Sounds like every 6k miles they get replaced anyway and are only about 25 bucks.
Quote from: 94touring on February 24, 2023, 07:31:49 AMAny of the scooter experts familiar with swapping out rollers? I was reading through various modifications and seems as though on this particular model that going from the stock 15g rollers to 12.5 really makes a difference in acceleration and hill climbing. Those not familiar with what these are, it allows the engine to shift later so you're in a higher rpm and ideally weighted to the fat part of the powerband. Sounds like every 6k miles they get replaced anyway and are only about 25 bucks.
Swapping springs can help too you can tune the clutch with springs and weights and even grind custom weights. It's not just the amount of weight but its position as well it will become very apparent as soon as you open it up for a look. It's fun to tune a clutch and variatior and affordable enough that it doesn't matter if you screw up. We had one all screwed up it would wheelie all day long but wasn't much good for riding LOL.
Well we bought the 150 today. Then about 2 hours before I was set to go get it, work called and said they needed me in Dallas for the night. I'll grab it on Monday probably. Jen took a check down there today and signed some stuff.
Fun to be had with it. Looks good in that color.
Nice! The body color and seat color really complement each other.
Yeah the color combo and styling was a big seller. I found non china scooters that fit the bill, but they just didn't look as good.
I love it Dan!
Went and picked up the scooter. After a quick tutorial on how to start and stop it, loaded it up on my small trailer and brought it to the shop to test drive and see how it does on the hills. I've never actually driven any kind of motorcycle or scooter before. After some awkwardness and short learning curve on how to slowly accelerate and make a turn, I was off. Gets up to 55-60 pretty quickly. Top speed was 68mph. The hill climbs were good. Steep hill A from a dead stop to the top it got up to 45mph. This is the steepest and shortest part of road. Steep hill B started at 50 and it maintained 50 up most of it and got to 55 by the top. Steep hill C I started at 60mph and it pretty much maintained it the whole way up, dropped slightly. In fact it is on par with the bus performance on the same hills. Of course with the new go fast parts on the bus that will change.
Nice, I have to say it looks a hell of a lot bigger sitting there next to the bus/mini than it did on the showroom floor LOL.
Curious to see how it will do with a passenger and stuff loaded on it.....
Quote from: cstudep on March 14, 2023, 12:18:43 PMNice, I have to say it looks a hell of a lot bigger sitting there next to the bus/mini than it did on the showroom floor LOL.
I thought maybe it was light enough and just lift the front end up onto the trailer since the trailer is so low. Nope. Ordered a 6 foot long narrow aluminum ramp. I need to fab up the wheel chocks before I bring it home too. They strapped the thing up for me before I left but I sure was skeptical.
The older I get the heavier things seem to be so I am with you there.
You would be surprised how well a cycle stays in place with just 2 straps, one on each side of the handle bars and something to nose the front wheel up against. Of course if you can provide something more/better it of course wont hurt!
I found a wheel chock I'm going to use for the trailer. Watched several YouTube vids on various chocks and then after some consideration went with this style. The scooter wheels being 12 inches is a limiting factor on some chocks. This one will need to be modified to work too, but mainly that's just going to involve cutting down the vertical end so it isn't hitting the fender, and then drilling holes for the rear flip part thingy to move forward far enough to secure the back of the front wheel. The cool thing is I can roll it in place and it holds the scooter upright, meaning I can strap it down solo without needing a 2nd pair of hands.
Quote from: 94touring on March 18, 2023, 06:04:21 AMI found a wheel chock I'm going to use for the trailer. Watched several YouTube vids on various chocks and then after some consideration went with this style. The scooter wheels being 12 inches is a limiting factor on some chocks. This one will need to be modified to work too, but mainly that's just going to involve cutting down the vertical end so it isn't hitting the fender, and then drilling holes for the rear flip part thingy to move forward far enough to secure the back of the front wheel. The cool thing is I can roll it in place and it holds the scooter upright, meaning I can strap it down solo without needing a 2nd pair of hands.
I used one of those and 2 straps to tow a Harley on a trailer. It was rock solid. The biggest issue was getting the dam thing on the trailer as it was a none runner and are not light!
This had popped up in my feed yesterday so I watched the last hour of bidding. Strong price for a scooter!
Working on the bike stand and trailer. Only had to drill a couple extra holes on the stand to fit the small wheels of the vespa. Put one of the camp gear bins on the trailer to situate it all in the best configuration. So far it's all working as planned.
Everything bolted down and straps tested. It's as secure as it's going to get.
Looking good!
Made one last mod to the ramp, well a few mods. I changed the angle of the lip so it's more flush with the trailer bed. It was designed for a higher pitch. Welded it up where I sliced the back side to bend it. Added a bolt on each edge of the plate because it was bending the aluminum due to flexing. Last and most importantly I added a through bolt to make double damn sure the ramp can't slide out on me. It has a rubber bottom but it still wanted to slide here and there on me. Just need to find a way to secure the ramp to the trailer when it's not in use and it's all done.
I love da mods Dan.
Quote from: ve9aa on April 06, 2023, 03:14:15 PMI love da mods Dan.
Thanks. The last thing I did was add a stud off the one fender to secure down the ramp.
Took Jen to a parking lot to practice today and then around the block of the parking lot to expand out. So far so good. First time I drove it with a passenger on the back, but it's not at all difficult. Still peppy taking it up hills too.
I've put 155 miles on it so far, 75 around Tulsa and 75 up here in the Rocky Mountains the past 2 days. I'm not sure which I like more, the gas mileage or ease of parking. Speed wise up here between 8000 and 10000 feet, it has kept up with traffic. The steepest roads it chugs along at 30-35mph with both of us riding and some gear, but the speed limit so far in those areas have been between 25 and 35mph. Haven't held anyone up and more often than not I'm slowing behind an rv or people driving slower than the posted limit. Hardest part for me so far is stop and go traffic barely creeping along in town. There's a fine line between going slow enough to walk it along or needing to pull my feet up because it's going too fast to have legs dangling. It's a balancing act to maintain balance basically. Still working on my technique there.
The vespa has really been amazing up here especially when popping into town. Since it's a tourist spot, parking is a real issue, but not with the vespa! While the lines are long and the lot is at a standstill, we can just park off a bike path. Or, corner pocket bike parking. Top of the mountain trail head you typically have to park off site and be bussed in. With the vespa the front row to the trail head has spots for bikes. Had a couple people ask where they could rent a scooter!
12,183 feet going over the top of the Rockies.
What was the temp change from 7K to 12K?
On top of Independence Pass there was 4-5 ft of snow on July 4th, when we did the MMW Aspen trip
It was probably low 50s high 40s up there. But a sunny day so wasn't bad at all. I've been up there in snow and hail before.
Put right at 275 miles on it this week zipping around the area. I had topped it off after a couple days with about a gallon, then once it was down to a quarter tank another 1.5 gallons. Gas gauge currently showing 7/8 full, so maybe a quarter gallon low. Considering I had to be full throttle many times that's not bad at all, and somewhere around 100mpg. I've also gotten really good at driving it!
Now if you could figure how to take it with you as carry on luggage when you are working. :13:
The vespa is due for it's first oil change after the recommended break in period.