Restoration-Mini

With the 2022 season in the books, I guess it's time to start a new thread for next year.

A few things are decided, the grid is mostly done now - all drivers in place and again we'll have a few new faces, a few familiar faces in new uniforms and a couple of old faces still hanging around, even if not on the grid.

New faces include Oscar Piastri and Logan Sargeant, along with super sub The Hulk at HAAS with his 'ol buddy KMag.

Binotto has left Ferrari with his replacement yet to be announced, but I'm told it will not be Vasseur but rather someone promoted from within.

Mercedes promises to be back with a vengeance, convinced they can win races, challenge for poles and maybe even the championship. Red Bull will come back strong as usual, building on their successful 2022 car and Ferrari says their new engine is "da bomb", according to Gunter Steiner of HAAS. If that's so, we may see some new faces on the podiums this season as both Alfa and HAAS will be using them too....

So, predictions?

I think the Mercs will be strong, Reds Bull will be fast, and Ferrari (if they can keep them running) will be challenging for pole all season.

I think Sainz is going to have a better year, LeClerc will get his shit together too. George will be even quicker than this year, and the HAAS boiz may surprise a few people in the midfield.

I think strategy will be even more important, and as this is Ferrari's perennial Achilles heel, I hope they get on top of it.

Tires are also supposed to be improved this season too.

What do ya'll think?

I am hoping that the gaps between the top 3 teams will be closer, with Merc and Ferrari regularly challenging Red Bull for victories. Lower down the order, I would like to see the gaps from the top 3 to close up, with some teams having the opportunity to challenge for podiums

This season will be a season of reckoning for a number of drivers:
Leclerc - 2 thoughts here 1) Ferrari need to sort their strategy decision making out, if the errors continue I cannot see Leclerc staying long term with Ferrari. 2) Leclerc made some unforced errors this year, he needs to remove those if he is going to challenge for a championship.

Sainz - Needs to show he can challenge Leclerc and others on a regular basis, otherwise he will be seen as a good second driver not a championship contender.

Russell - Has to build on his 2022 with more victories and push to become the defacto team leader if/when Hamilton retires.

Hamilton - If he has another winless season then I think his time in F1 will be coming to an end. He has so many interests outside of F1, I wonder how longer he will stay if he is not winning.  I do not see him dragging out his career like Vettel and Alonso in uncompetitive cars.

Norris - needs to beat Piastri, and show whether the difficulties that Riccardio had were simply driving style or was he able to adapt to a difficult car like the true greats can do.

Gasly and Ocon - one of them needs to demonstrate that they can lead a team and drive it forwards.  I have never rated either of them as potential future F1 world champions, but I would like to see the partnership be successful.

Sargeant - He needs to show that he is not another pay to play driver (he comes from a billionaire family).  His junior formulae he has never won a championship, but was pretty successful karter.

Hulkenberg - I was a little disappointed that they brought the Hulk back, at 35 he is in the twilight of his F1 career.  He holds the record for the most F1 races without a podium (not a great record to have!).  There are many drivers in the junior categories that deserve a chance in F1. 

And this brings me on to my final point, is the junior formulae ladder broken for the FIA.  Only the 4th place driver in F2 secured an F1 drive from 2022, in 2021 it was the 3rd place (admittedly the champion will be on the grid in 2023).  The other "rookie" F1 driver is Nyck De Vries who is 27 years old and did win the F2 championship in 2019, but is far from a rookie as he was Formula E champion in 2020/21.

I pretty much agree on all points, and I think this could be a pretty good year in F1, and maybe the last of the good years for a while if they're talking about making during race adjustments to the leading car to slow it down..... :embarrassed:

Then in 2026 it could be all new again with new players coming into the series.  :steeringwheel:

There is a Chinese billionaire who wants into the game, and Andretti says their entry is still happening, Audi is all in with the Sauber team and Porsche says they're not dead yet, just trying to see where their next play might be - I really thought the tie up with Red Bull was an interesting idea, now the talk is they might have an in with the Williams team, except that Dorilton Capital says it's not for sale, they're in for the long haul. Who knows?  :017:

The Chinese GP has been scrapped for 2023, and instead we'll see them in Portugal at Portimão, which I think is brilliant as it's a fantastically fun looking track!  :great:

Gonna be a long wait till Feb testing and the first race in March.

So we are now in team principal silly season.

Ferrari's Binotto resigned, he is being replace by Alfa Romeo/Sauber boss Vasseur.
Alfa Romeo/Sauber has recruited Seidel from McLaren
Mclaren have promoted Andrea Stella from within to Team Principal.
Williams have let go both Team boss Capito and their Technical Director

What I find interesting about all of this, normally it takes months to transfer senior management between the teams but there appears to have been something happening really fast and in a co-ordinated manner.

It reminds me of how NFL coaches change teams.....someone has a bad season and they get fired only to turn up at another team the following season, and getting paid even more than the losing team paid them.

I didn't see Siedel moving to Alfa, that's a bit of a surprise. I wonder if Audi had any influence on his hiring?

It will be interesting to see who Williams hires. I still think either Andretti, Honda or Porsche are going to wind up buying a team, and Williams is the next logical choice.

Honda is maybe going to be building engines again - separate from Red Bull - and may even start their own team again - wouldn't THAT be interesting? Even better if Ford or Chevy decide to give it a go too....or Hyundai - I've been reading that they really want to move further onto the world stage, maybe by branding their Genesis label on something much like Infinity, Aston and others have done.

Actually I'm a bit surprised Audi is coming in at this late era in combustion engines, let alone any other legacy mfr, when we are clearly moving away from them worldwide - yes it's going to take a while, but look how fast things have been moving already.....

Quote from: MiniDave on December 13, 2022, 09:43:48 AMI didn't see Siedel moving to Alfa, that's a bit of a surprise. I wonder if Audi had any influence on his hiring?

After I wrote that post, I saw a comment from Zac Brown, that Siedel had already told McLaren he would be leaving and going to Audi in 2025 so the negotiated for him to go sooner after Vasseur went to Ferrari.

Mercedes signed Mick as their reserve driver, so if something happens to either Lewis or George, he gets to drive the Merc and show what he can do in a "proper" car.

I say good for him.

I think he's angling for the Audi drive in 2026 if he doesn't get called up to Merc full time.

Mario says they're almost in the big show, funding is set, the shop is being built (in Indianapolis no less!). it will be run as Andretti Global out of a shop in England, and they have an engine supplier lined up...just waiting for F1 to give their blessing.

Let's see, Andretti Indycar uses Honda motors, and Honda says they're ready to get back into F1.....whadya think? Sure would be a lot easier on them if they could buy Alfa Tauri,  the Honda connection is already there at least.

I wonder if Renault will ever get another engine customer?

So, interesting things going on off-track in F1

Andretti announced they wanted to field an entry, F1 said no thanks

A few days ago F1 said sure, we'd like some new teams in F1, particularly an American team but we want it to be tied to a mfr like Audi

Andretti today says - How about Cadillac?

F1 replies.......hmmmmmm........ummmm.......well.......um.......

Again I don't understand why manufacturers going to a full electric-only lineup of models (like Cadillac and Audi) want to sponsor internal combustion F1 instead of supporting Formula E?  Must just be the number of eyeballs involved, eh?  And it's still 5 years or so before they switch to all-electric?

Anyway, it would be great to have another American team.

And Cadillac have admitted that they would be rebadging an engine, at least initially.  GM road cars did a deal with Honda to share their EV platform, so could it be the Honda/Red Bull Powertrain?

I've read that the Red Bull powertrains will be branded "Ford"!!!

Like Bruce, I'm not sure I understand the logic of them getting into F1 now, but with the engines running on synthfuel, maybe that's the tie-in?

Speaking at Autosport International, former Toyota F1 driver McNish explained: "[The] 2026 [entry] is because it is a new regulation change for the power unit and with that, there are a few key factors.

"One, that there is a big increase in the electrification, so there is a lot more electric power from the hybrid system. It's about three times what it is today and it's nearly equal with the internal combustion engine.

"The second is sustainable fuels.

"That is very road-relevant because, from an Audi point of view, as it has been with every single motorsport programme dating back to the rally and Quattro, whether it be TSI injection at Le Mans, they're developing technology in the most extreme circumstances that will have a road relevance."

Well, at least we know Audi is serious about their F1 team.....

https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/01/30/audi-buys-minority-stake-in-sauber/?fbclid=IwAR0SIh7C3A5pbDD3XD8A0o09RmGAkLcqEtKgBf8jDStcpS2nRAI7quiFMrU (https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/01/30/audi-buys-minority-stake-in-sauber/?fbclid=IwAR0SIh7C3A5pbDD3XD8A0o09RmGAkLcqEtKgBf8jDStcpS2nRAI7quiFMrU)

So, it looks like Ford and Red Bull are going to do a tie up of some sort - the engines in 2026 will be badged Ford, but they will be built by Red Bull's powertrains unit - much like the last time Ford was in F1 and Cosworth built their engines.

So IF Andretti and Cadillac can find their way onto the grid (still highly unlikely at this point) we could have two American teams in F1 and two American manufacturers in F1 - I think that would be a first?

All in all 2023 is shaping up to be an interesting season in F1, with all the driver swaps, rookies coming in, new blood in management and so on......and 2026 promises to be even more interesting, to my mind!

The interesting thing is that the FIA are pushing ahead with a process for new teams. However, F1/Liberty Media also have control who they can allow on the grid - so probably be something that ends up being decided by lawyers.

A lot can happen in the next three years, but I want to see what happens in testing this month, new cars, new drivers all getting a shakedown. Red Bull will be strong again, but the Mercs were definitely coming on strong towards the end of last season, so I expect a three way fight at the front, and a 5 way fight in the mid field.

Alonso seems to think the Aston has legs this year and the Alpine boys were the best of the rest most of the season....if Renault has gotten on top of their reliability issues they should be ready to pounce on a mistake and maybe take a podium or two. McLaren says they think they have their issues straightened out too, and Ferrari are supposed to have made a major gain in HP - tho Vasseur says that's nonsense, all they did was fix the parts that broke last year.

With all that said, I sure hope it's not another run away season - I don't really care who wins, I just want to see some new faces on the stand this season.

I do wish they would free up the engine design, so we could have 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 and even 12 cylinder powerplants again!

Agree with all of those points.

I have always been confused about the limited number of engines/power units and the lack of testing as "money saving".  I am convinced that approach does not save money as they just spend all the other money on at base testing e.g. wind tunnel (although that is getting limited now), engine dyno, etc etc.

I would like to see some more in season testing, even if it is an extra practice day on a Thursday or Monday of a race weekend.  Or at circuits where there is limited support races, give them the whole of Friday with an open pit lane.

Well, speaking of practice - this Fri, Sat and Sunday the 2023 season gets underway with pre-season testing in Bahrain

Lots of rumors going around, including some about Aston Martin. First is that Jr will not be there for the test as he fell off his bike, but he may make it to the first race. All expect Alonso to clean his clock regularly thruout the season, and more than a couple of drivers from other teams have said the 2023 Aston looks fast. Considering none of the cars have turned a wheel in anger yet, I'm taking this with the proverbial grain of salt. Their back up driver who will fill in for Jr is Drugovich.

Mercedes has stuck with their no sidepods look, no one knows what to expect from them but they were going good at the end of last season, so we'll see.

A couple of teams have claimed improvements in their powerpacks "for reliability" wink wink, nudge nudge - the biggest gains are supposed to be at Ferrari. Vaseur has played it down saying they haven't done anything but go after the things that broke last season.....but Gunther says the new motor is "da bomb", whatever he may mean by that.

McLaren is rumored to be in talks with Honda for a motor in 2026, along with several other "un-named" teams. I'm not surprised at this as once they got their partnership with Red Bull up and running it was clear they had a competitive package. No idea how the intellectual properties situation will get resolved when Ford shows up later on, should be interesting. But Ford does have co-operative agreements with Honda on electric cars and such, so maybe there's a backroom deal going on. I do think Honda is a bit miffed with Red Bull right now tho.....

Sure would like to see Andretti buy Williams or maybe even Alpha Tauri and bring Cadillac with them onto the grid.

There is also a South Korean billionaire talking about bringing a team in with Hyundai sponsorship. I think the time is right for some new blood on the grid, well, new faces anyway if not exactly blood - don't want that!

One other interesting note, in the quest for weight savings, a number of teams have unpainted their cars, so there will be a lot of black on the grid!

I think we probably not know much until the final day, but it was good to see cars on track again. 

Rumor is that Stroll Jr broke his wrists falling off his bike, if true it seems unlikely he will be in the car for the first race of the season.

Couple of points I noted from first day results, could be something or could be nothing:
- Piastri was over 1.4 seconds slower than Norris and they did a similar number of laps.
- The spread across the entire field was only 2.3 seconds - which could bode well for a close championship.

Well FP1 and FP2 are done and some interesting things have come to the front - including Alonso with fast time in FP2 in the Aston! I will be fun to see some new faces at the front of the grid! Also, interesting vid of how Stroll with his wrist issues holds the wheel in really sharp turns.

Mercedes is not where I expected them to be, Ferrari may have high tire degradation to deal with, and how about the Hulk in P5? Whereas Kmag seems lost with his setup in his HAAS......

Red Bull and Ferrari look fast, Mclaren also looks lost right now, and the newbies are not exactly setting the time charts on fire, but again, given how little track time any of them have this season so far I expect some improvements as the season wears on. Speaking of improvements - top 14 runners within 1 second of each other is pretty wow to me!

Bahrain 2023

The more things change.....the more they seem the same.....

The big news this year was the resurgence of Aston Martin in the hands of Alonso, and there's no question they've made a good step forward but in the end, it was the two Red Bulls followed by the two Ferraris.

Alonso came 5th, pretty much where he was when driving the Alpine, and his teammate Lance did a great job putting his Aston 8th after missing all of practice last week and the team not sure if he even could drive this race - so a "well done" to him.

Russell just pipped the Hamster to take 6th and 7th for Mercedes, pretty much where they were last year which is also a bit of a surprise given how strong they finished at the end of last season but massively better than the start of last year!

Ocon and the Hulk rounded out the top 10 - Hulk has been way faster than KMag all weekend, somehow Kevin just can't get his car where he likes it. 10th for the HAAS is a decent start and I hope he continues to do well.....HAAS needs a good season.

The new rookies finished 16, 18 and 19th so none of them got out of Q1. No surprise there although after all the drama surrounding Piastri I think McLaren hoped he would be further up the order, but Lando only managed 11th so clearly they have some work to do again this season.

Alpha Tauri insist loudly that the team is NOT for sale - which probably means a deal to sell the team is already done..  :grin:

Well, it's almost like the 2022 season never ended, as we picked up right where we left off.....

The Reds Bull sailed off over the horizon, Ferrari had an issue and one car didn't finish, the Mercs finished 5th and 7th, pretty much where they ran last year. HAAS had a terrible race only in terms of performance, no issues with the car except that it's just not fast in race pace. McLaren also had a terrible race with Piastri dropping out early and Norris limping home after stopping 5 times to have his air topped up.

Sargeant had the best debut of all the rookies, bringing his Williams home in 12th while Albon managed 10th again.

The Astons were the real show, as foretold by the test and practice sessions, but I don't think anyone can run with the Reds Bull over a race distance yet. Aston finished 3rd (Alonso) and 6th, so well done to them. I think Alonso will be the spark this team needed to light this team on fire again, but the results were mostly due to Vettel's work with the team - credit due where it belongs. But before we get all giddy about Alonso's finish, as good as it was, it was still almost 40 sec behind Max at the end.....that's a LONG ways back

Gasly also needs a shout out for starting dead last and finishing in the points plus getting fastest lap in the Alpine.

Ferrari really seems to have gotten on top of their engine reliability issues (sarcasm) and they also seem to be harder on tires than either the Red Bulls or the Aston.

Well, at the end of last season with the improved pace of the Mercedes (they won a race after all!), the fact that Red Bull's #1 car guy after Adrian Newey was going to Aston along with his #2 from Mercedes, and the supposed reliability improvements to the Ferrari I thought it would lead to more and different winners this year, but after the Bahrain race there is talk that not only has Red Bull already won both championships but that they will probably win every race this year!

I think that's a little optimistic, but there's no question the only one who could run with Max at the Bahrain race was his teammate.

Some say that the Red Bull was more optimized for the peculiarities of the Bahrain circuit than any other team and that's why their race pace was so strong, and that once the series moves to other circuits it may not look so dominant......I don't know about that, but some teams clearly have lost the plot - Mercedes and McLaren the most obvious. Even worse for Mercedes is the fact that Aston is their customer team, using not only their engine/power unit but also their rear suspension setup and their wind tunnel to develop their car!

Perez quipped that the Aston was so close a copy of the Red Bull that there were three Red Bull drivers on the podium!

What do you think? Will Red Bull run the table this season? Can anyone beat them, and if so - who? Remember, even Aston was almost 40 sec behind at the end of the race....

Red Bull's race pace seems to in a different league to the rest of the teams. Maybe they have significant advantage because of the track, but regardless they were still 40 odd seconds ahead at the end and I imagine that Max and Checo had their motors turned right down for a large proportion of the race.

It looks like the race will be for 3rd place in the championship.  As the midfield does like hyper competitive this year, even McLaren had good race pace in the middle of the race when Norris was following Hamilton and Alonso.

I think the only way they will make the field truly competitive is to get Adrian Newey to retire!

I heard the Adrian has taken a "step back" from daily operations again

Quote from: MiniDave on March 06, 2023, 12:58:43 PMI heard the Adrian has taken a "step back" from daily operations again

Needs to be several steps back until F1 car design is a dot to him!

Well, 2023 is off to a bang up start - that is to say a lot of things are going "Bang"!

So tomorrow's grid was expected to be all Red Bull on the first row, but because Max broke a driveshaft in Q2, he'll be starting in 15th

Checo got his second pole at Saudi, and even tho LeClerc was second in Q3, because he had to replace his computer controller for the third time this season he will start 12th

Aston had a good day.....well Alonso did.....and he will start 2nd tomorrow and given how easy the Aston is on its tires, Alonso may have a shot at his first win in YEARS!

So with LeClerc and Max out of their usual positions, I expect them to come storming thru the field....I hope that doesn't lead to tears and recriminations!

Piastri easily out qualified Lando - he is not having a good season so far - and Sargeant actually had the measure of Albon till his first lap was deleted for just clipping the pit entrance line (or was it pit out?) and then he broke something when he brushed the wall on a later lap.

LeClerc being moved to the back means George will start third, it will be interesting to see if he can hold onto the place and Sainz will start 4th....so an interesting grid. The Hamster could only manage 8th.....

Should be a fun race tomorrow - can Max win from 15th? I wouldn't be surprised - he was fastest all weekend by a good margin, and he has won from 14th before.....but it will be a struggle - or maybe not!

Well, to answer the big question - No, Max didn't win, Checo did.
Because of the track layout, 2nd place actually had a better run to the first corner than pole does, and Alonso took full advantage to lead the first two laps, but as soon as DRS was enabled, Sergio surged ahead and never looked back.

Max had a good race to finish 2nd, about 6 seconds back but the last 10 laps or so he thought he was losing another drive shaft. But just to keep things in their proper order, he did the fastest lap on the last lap of the race, otherwise Checo would be ahead in the championship - now they're tied instead.

So congrats to Checo, great race drive.....

The finishing order was interesting, two Red Bulls, Alonso, two Mercs, two Ferraris, two Alpines and Kmag got the 10th place and final point. I think Stroll could have been 4th but his brake by wire system died so they retired the car.

LeClerc carved thru the pack on his soft tires in the first half of the race, but at the pit stop they went to the hards and both he and Sainz just didn't seem to be able to do anything from there.

So, 45 min after the race was over they took Alonso's 3rd place away saying that the mechanics had touched the car while he was serving a 5 sec penalty because the rear jack touched the car (and was immediately pulled back) much like they did with Ocon in Bahrain.

Now they have reversed again and reinstated Alonso's 3rd place (and 100th podium too) saying that there actually is no rule that says they can't touch the car, only that they can't work on it - it's ambiguous at best and I'm sure they will have a clarification in place by the next race.

But, even George said Alonso deserved his 3rd place.....

Australia qualifying:

Max does it again, but the real surprise are the Mercedes in P2 and P3! George ahead of the Hamster.....all it will take is a rain shower or an off and things could get really interesting.

Perez has had an absolutely terrible weekend so far, he never even made it out of Q3 and will start dead last. We'll see if he's got it sorted, btu not a good look compared to his teammate.

The Ferraris seem to have been passed by both the Aston and Mercedes teams this season....who all seem to be in better shape

A real shoutout to Alex Albon at Williams to get 8th, and the Hulk rounding out the top 10!

P1 Max
P2 Russell
P3 Hamster
P4 Alonso
P5 Sainz
P6 Stroll
P7 LeClerc
P8 Albon
P9 Gasly
P10 Hulk

What a mess!!!

So, George gets a super start and gets away first, the Hamster and Alonso followed thru and put Max in 4th, LeClerc wrecks out on the 3rd corner and within a few laps George's engine blows up, as soon as the track clears and they get DRS, Max motors past both and takes the lead, then motors out about 10 seconds and eases up to keep that gap.....until....

3 red flags, on the second red flag restart with 4 laps left about 6 cars wreck out - while they have the cars parked in the pits after the last restart they have to decide exactly how to end the race, as there is only the last lap left.

The decision is to go back to the running order of the previous last lap, BUT then they give Sainz a 5 sec penalty - which he can't defend because they're only going to run that last lap behind the pace car, and there is no passing behind the pace car! So, that means all the cars gridded behind him on the last lap will be well within the 5 sec! That takes Sainz from 4th to 12th

Checo drove a decent race from dead last to finish 5th, the Hulk finished 7th for HAAS, which is a great run for him but he def benefited from the red flags and Sainz' penalty. Lando 6th and Oscar gets his first points in 8th, but again both only because of Sainz' penalty.

The two Alpines were having a super race but wrecked each other out in the second red flag kerfluffle and came away with nothing.

Crazy race.....

3 teams went from having a great race to absolutely nothing - Ferrari, Alpine and Williams - Albon was running a terrific 8th but he caused the first red flag when he hit the wall.

Crazy race indeed. 

Who could have predicted Alonso getting a 3rd place in every race so far this season?  He's still very much got "it".

And he has a fairly competitive car to do "it" with....but the Alpine is not far behind.

Mercedes is the one that surprised me the most, they've gone from horrible to 2nd place in two races....what happened?

While I don't think they're able to beat the Red Bull once it gets DRS, it sure has improved.

So, can Checo challenge Max for the title this year? The way I see it the only way he beats him is for Max to have a run of bad luck, car failures, wrecks etc. Although like Seb did when he won his 4 titles, if you drive off into the distance from the first lap, it's pretty hard to have trouble in the race.

Once Max got clear of the Hamster, he pulled a 2 sec gap in less than a lap.

Seems like the new rules have done exactly what they were after (except for Red Bull) in that the whole field is now within a second from first to last, its just that the Red Bull has the straight line speed that no one else seems to be able to match that allows them to carve thru the field or run off and hide while the others duke it out for 2nd on back.

Ferrari is not that far behind, but I put them the best of the midfield now, not race win contenders.

The Hulk sure had a great race for HAAS, and yet it seems like Kmag has gone the other way since the Hulk joined the team....I wonder what happened there?

I felt bad for Carlos, as the impact to Alonso was wiped out, they should have done an alternative penalty than the 5 seconds.  Not sure if they could do that with the way the rules are written, but a fine and some penalty points seemed more appropriate. 

Not sure why we needed to have 2 of the red flags.  The Albon crash, the reason for the red flag was gravel on the circuit - really?  The KMag incident, could have been a safety car as well to clear his car and pick up the debris. I get that the world has become highly risk averse, but with the safety car and them having all lined up, they should have had plenty of time to clear everything up within a few laps.

The final lap behind the safety car seemed pointless, they should have just called the race or even just let them continue under the safety car rather than reset and then have the farcical single lap behind the safety car with no overtaking. 

Anyway - now there is almost a month to the next GP due to the cancellation of the Chinese GP.  Hopefully, this gives the teams a chance to try and catch up to Red Bull so there is a chance of some competitive races at the front this season!

Someone said they should have gridded them up and let them drag race to the finish line (a few hundred feet?)  Cause that's what drag racing needs, more passing!   :grin:

Someone tried that recently, it did not go so well.

So after a long spring break, F1 is back this weekend with a new Sprint race format.  The intent is to make the sprint races more exciting, so the results will not impact the grid for the main race on Sunday (unless there is a penalty from the sprint race). 

Lots of teams are bringing updates, so it will be interesting to if the order is shaken up at all.

Baku

LeClerc has pole for the Sprint race, but as soon as DRS is enabled Checo eases by on the straight......and that's pretty much the race. Max got hit in the sidepod by George in the first lap and the resulting body damage limited his performance in the rest of the race - or so they said -finishing third and NOT happy with George after the race.

Sunday and again LeClerc is on pole, and again as soon as DRS is enabled both Max and Checo ease on by.....and that's pretty much the race. This time Max's race was compromised by a safety car, after which he could not close up on Checo enough to pass him. George stopped on the last couple of laps for new softs so he could set fast lap and deny Red Bull that one point, but does it really matter?

With a 100 pt lead in the constructor's after only 4 races it's doubtful that anyone can catch them. Ferrari has great one or two lap speed but their race pace just isn't there. LeClerc said after the race that he doubts Red Bull is running full out, but Checo says he and Max were both going as fast as they could - proven by the fact that both clipped a wall at some point....so who do you believe?

Much has been made about Mercedes improved pace, but they still finished 6th & 8th, same with big Mac, and at least Lando managed to get into the points in 9th. Alonso and the Hamster had a couple of good dices with Alonso coming out ahead in 4th. He also took a moment during the race to pass along some helpful advice on brake settings to Lance.....

Next up is Miami, another street race and Checo seems to do well on those, this could really tighten up the driver's championship at least...... as there are only 6pts between them now. If Pez wins in Miami that should tie things up.

You missed the main drama of the race, when officials were setting up parc ferme in the pit lane and Ocon still had to pit.  And then the comical FIA summons to the race stewards of themselves!  Apparently a similar thing happen with Albon last year (might have been Australia), but nothing was done then.  The cynic in me thinks that was because it was not caught on the main TV feed!

On to the actual race, I was really disappointed as Baku usually creates some really good racing.  Maybe the shortening of the DRS on the main straight will be reversed for next year as it seemed only the Red Bulls could pass. 

In terms of the championship, it is Red Bull's - they just need to decide which driver is going to get it.

There was talk about them having only 1 practice session at this race was great, but if they want the rest of the field to close the gap on Red Bull - they need to give more testing not less.

Oh, I saw that! Unbelievable.....

I think it's terrible that the championship is already decided, so I was happy to see Checo giving Max some actual real competition....

I saw a funny meme, Horner whispering to Checo - "Just imagine there are walls around every track and the championship is yours"

Quote from: MiniDave on May 01, 2023, 08:02:52 AMI saw a funny meme, Horner whispering to Checo - "Just imagine there are walls around every track and the championship is yours"

If driver contracts allow Checo to win!

Red Bull seems to be going down the same path of previous partnerships with lead drivers:
- Vettel left after Riccardio started beating him
- Riccardio left after Verstappen started beating him
So if Checo starts beating Max on a regular basis, is that the end of Max's time at Red Bull?  Even if he has a contract until 2028.

Yes, it could get "interesting".....could Max start taking the "If I don't win, no one does" attitude and take Checo out - kinda Prost/Senna style?

Or would he pick up his marbles and go somewhere else?

Nah. He knows the best chance he has is with Red Bull, but now that he has a couple of titles under his belt, it doesn't seem to be as important to get more.....or so he says.

If Ferrari can keep their shit together can they overtake Aston and Merc to finish 2nd again?

Right now Alpine, McLaren, Williams, Alfa - Romeo and Tauri - and HAAS are just grid fillers......

Personally, I like F1 just a little bit more when the prima donnas like Hamilton and Verstappen get upset when things don't go completely their way. And it's even better when it's a teammate causing the upset.

Separately, I'm really enjoying Alonso this season.  Glad he's still in F1.   
 

Ex F1 driver is a mini fan!

I agree with Bruce, Perez taking it to Max this season is a fun thing to watch, and Alonso being in the Mix and fighting with the Hamster adds a little fun.....George is feeling his oats too and if one of the front runners slips back a bit he's ready to pounce.

I wish the Ferraris could find some more race pace, but right now they (and everyone else) are pretty much defenseless against the Red Bulls when they have DRS.

All in all, I think this season will still have some fireworks before it's all done - I'm up for that!

Quote from: Brit_in_TX on May 04, 2023, 10:29:35 AMEx F1 driver is a mini fan!

Karun is one of my favorite commentators - I like his style and insight.  And he was great as a presenter on Fifth Gear too.

Great to see he's also a classic Mini owner!

Miami

Well, this will be interesting......

Last part of qually and LeClerc is going for pole and backs it into the wall on the same corner he wrecked in during practice. Since there was only a minute left they ended qually early and to his surprise I'm sure, Checo found himself on pole!

So, the grid has a bunch of surprises, which should make things interesting for the race.....

P1 Checo
P2 Alonso
P3 Sainz
P4 KMag!!!!!
P5 Gasly
P6 Russell (Where's the Hamster?)
P7 LeClerc (Unless he damaged his gearbox and they have to change it)
P8 Ocon
P9 Max !!!!
P10 Bottas
P11 Albon
P12 Hulk
P13 The Haminator
P14 Zhou
P15 "Not quite as quick" Nyckk
P16 Lando
P17 Yuki
P18 Lance out for a Stroll
P19 Piastri
P20 The Sarge

Quite an interesting grid, we know Max will be charging as hard as he can but this track is not supposed to be good for overtaking - still the Red Bull on DRS is faster than any other car on the track. Alonso is loving his car right now and says the balance is perfect. Sainz has something to prove and really needs a good weekend. The mix of other quick drivers down the grid means there should be some passing during the race.

I love when there's a bit of a shake up in the qualifying lineup.  And boy does this count!  Perez is getting some momentum!  I'm loving seeing Alonso up toward the front this season.

Well, as expected Max simply was quicker than anyone else and managed his tire wear brilliantly too.....Checo has to be disappointed.

Speaking of disappointments - Ferrari just looks sad these days - tho not as sad as McLaren.

Mercedes seems to get stronger as the race goes along, with George's pass on Sainz and the Hamster's on LeClerc really putting the exclamation point down.

Kmag got everything he could out of the HAAS and did manage to keep 10th.

And once again Mini Mokes are part of the Miami race taking the podium finishers from Parc Ferme to the podium.

Well, fake Mokes anyway. They got a full 60 seconds (I timed it) of onscreen time to literally hundreds of millions of viewers on the worldwide F1 feed.  Plus Crofty mentioned the Mokes by name. That's some pretty impressive product placement! 

Quote from: MiniDave on May 07, 2023, 03:06:29 PMWell, as expected Max simply was quicker than anyone else and managed his tire wear brilliantly too.....Checo has to be disappointed.

Speaking of disappointments - Ferrari just looks sad these days - tho not as sad as McLaren.

Mercedes seems to get stronger as the race goes along, with George's pass on Sainz and the Hamster's on LeClerc really putting the exclamation point down.

Kmag got everything he could out of the HAAS and did manage to keep 10th.

Agree on all points.

The Red Bull DRS is so effective, the other teams need to work out how they are doing that.  Hamilton not being able to pass Albon easily with DRS is really a sign that they have not got it right.

 

I think it was interesting how Alonso's race was so quiet that he had time to watch the big screen TV's around the track and compliment Lance on a pass he made!

Those electric Mokes are selling so well (especially in Florida) that I think it won't be long till there are more of those on the roads than the real ones. First questions I see from new owners are "how do I get it to go faster?" (can't, it's speed limited to 25 mph) and "where can I buy parts/get it fixed, it's bricked and won't move now and the dealer won't take my calls"

A little window into attending an F1 race in person. At least in Miami.

Hungry for some nachos during the Miami F1 race?  Then you're in luck!  Nachos are only $275.  Sure, they say that's for a 4 person serving, but are they kidding? You're hungry! 

https://www.motor1.com/news/666110/formula-one-miami-grand-prix-food-prices/

Cheese Louise!!!!!!

Otmar's job is on the line if Alpine doesn't show improvement - fast. Current management will not accept anything less than they did last year - 4th place in the constructor's championship. Right now they are in 6th place.

https://racer.com/2023/05/08/szafnauers-future-under-threat-amid-alpine-struggles/ (https://racer.com/2023/05/08/szafnauers-future-under-threat-amid-alpine-struggles/)

I know it's early in the season, with 18 more races to go, but they are tied with McLaren on 14 pts, Ferrari is next up in 4th with 74 pts. I think that's one hell of an ask.....to get ahead of Ferrari.....I think the absolute best they'll be able to do is 5th since Aston is going so well - there are 4 solid teams ahead of them now, not just 3.

Quote from: MiniDave on May 09, 2023, 11:30:44 AMI think it was interesting how Alonso's race was so quiet that he had time to watch the big screen TV's around the track and compliment Lance on a pass he made!

Those electric Mokes are selling so well (especially in Florida) that I think it won't be long till there are more of those on the roads than the real ones. First questions I see from new owners are "how do I get it to go faster?" (can't, it's speed limited to 25 mph) and "where can I buy parts/get it fixed, it's bricked and won't move now and the dealer won't take my calls"

All the same issues with anything battery powered and the parts are sourced from the cheapest supplier.  One our neighborhood facebook groups is full of people complaining about similar issue with the electric bikes they bought.

Quote from: BruceK on May 09, 2023, 01:06:31 PMA little window into attending an F1 race in person. At least in Miami.

Hungry for some nachos during the Miami F1 race?  Then you're in luck!  Nachos are only $275.  Sure, they say that's for a 4 person serving, but are they kidding? You're hungry! 

https://www.motor1.com/news/666110/formula-one-miami-grand-prix-food-prices/

If you want to sit in a grandstand at the Vegas F1 race and like Max, you can pay $3500 for a 3 day pass!  Even the GA tickets at COTA are now almost $500 each when you include all the fees.

https://wtf1.com/post/heres-what-a-ticket-in-max-verstappens-las-vegas-f1-grandstand-will-get-you/ (https://wtf1.com/post/heres-what-a-ticket-in-max-verstappens-las-vegas-f1-grandstand-will-get-you/)

F1 is not happening this weekend due to the weather around the Imola circuit.  I saw photos on Reddit earlier that showed that parts of the paddock were flooded.

The press release did not say if it was cancelled or postponed, I imagine with the congestion in the calendar it will be cancelled eventually.

Disappointing......I think you're right, it won't be re-scheduled for this season.

Monaco-

The race started as expected, everything moving along at a good pace until....

RAIN!

The whole race got scrambled with cars hitting each other and hitting the walls all around the track. At first it was only wet on three corners so most drivers tried to stay out and just tip toe thru the wet parts, but eventually the whole track was under the cloudburst.....it didn't last too long and there was crazy action in the pits as teams first went for inters, then full race, then back to inters....

Verstappen and Red Bull called it right and kept his lead - Perez had to start from the back as he wrecked out in Q1 and had a difficult day - with 5 laps to go and from 16th place he changed to slicks again as the track was drying out to see just how far he could improve. He wound up in  17th, so definitely not a good day for him.

Alonso was within 5 sec of the lead most of the race,, but by the end Max had almost 30 seconds on him for 2nd. Hamster got close to Ocon for the podium spot at the end, but just couldn't quite pull it off. Still, both Mercs finished in front of both Ferraris, so they can take heart in that improvement.

So, at the end in the top 10 we had both Mercs, both Ferraris, both Alpines and both McLarens...

Nothing like a little rain to scramble things up!

Max takes another win, Alonso get's second and Ocon gets another podium - and well earned.

Rumor mill......HAAS Alfa Romeo????

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/alfa-romeo-to-partner-with-haas-f1-team-in-2024-report/ar-AA1bSWC6?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=e3f26136dc79446ba43ed05e20941d9d&ei=24 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/alfa-romeo-to-partner-with-haas-f1-team-in-2024-report/ar-AA1bSWC6?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=e3f26136dc79446ba43ed05e20941d9d&ei=24)

Espana

What an interesting grid.....pretty much one of everything, and notable by the absence of a couple of "names"

So, once again Max does the trick, at one point he was over a second quicker than P2, but towards the end of Q3  Sainz managed to get within 1/2 second.

So
P1 Max Red Bull
P2 Sainz Ferrari
P3 Lando  McLaren
P4 Gasly  Alpine
P5 Hamster  Merc
P6 Stroll Aston Martin
P7 Ocon  Alpine
P8 Hulk  HAAS
P9 Alonso  Aston
P10 Piastri  McLaren

Now the shocker - the best LeClerc could do is P19, behind Albon's Williams. He said the car was undrivable in left turns and unpredictable in right turns. Betting money says they'll pull an all nighter and he'll start from the pit lane.

Perez could only manage 11th and was also off the track as much as he was on it. Russell said pretty much the same things, the car was bouncing and he couldn't keep the back end behind him....he'll start 12th

Alonso was disappointed to only come 9th, no idea why he was so slow in qually... and behind Stroll no less.

After having good seasons compared to his teammates, the Hulk is making Kmag look slow this year, tho he usually manages to finish close or ahead on race pace.

Should be a fun race, the track is well known to everyone, it's not supposed to rain so we could have an interesting day. I expect Max to run off and leave the field, but the rest of the race could be a corker!

Spain....the rain in Spain mostly stayed away, although Russel was convinced it was raining in turn 5, turned out to be sweat inside his visor!

Max as expected ran away from the crowd, and while Mercedes did well to finish 2nd and 3rd, they were still 24 and 32 sec back at the end, and that's with Max easing off in the final laps. I can't see any way that Max and Red Bull can lose this championship at this point, only tho we're only 8 of 24 races.....the performance difference is just that great.

Perez had an OK race to finish 4th, Sainz came 5th and Leclerc was a nowhere 11th at the end. Stroll drove a good race to finish just ahead of Alonso, who I think "allowed" him to finish ahead of him.

McLaren's race was over in the first lap as Norris and Hamster touched and Norris had to pit for a new wing.....

One interesting note, several teams pitted 4 times in this race, most did at least 2 pit stops, definitely not the norm. I don't know what it is about this track that caused such tire wear but that def spiced up the running order for everyone except Max, who led from the bell and never gave up the lead, even during the pitstop rotation.

Don't feel that George Russell for the recognition for an awesome race. Starting 12th and finishing 3rd.  Should have been driver of the day in my opinion.

Biggest disappointment of the day goes to Sainz starting 2nd and finishing 5th.  Race pace and perhaps race strategy was terrible.

Agree that Max and Red Bull have this championship all but won.  No sure how quickly he can have it wrapped it, but will be will before the end at this rate.

Canada

FP1 cancelled due to unspecified problems with the timing, scoring and TV cameras.

FP2 - headed by the two Mercedes to the surprise of almost everyone - including Mercedes. But to point out just how far they've come in evening up the field - the top 14 places in FP2 were covered by one second!

Then it rained in the last 10 min or so.

Somehow the opening races promise shown by Aston seems to have faded just as the Mercedes has made leaps and bounds towards the front. However, in the last race they were still half a minute behind the Reds Bull.

Tomorrow FP3 and qually - where we'll see whether the Merc pace is real, and whether the Ferraris have anything for any of them.

Gasly and the Hulk both had major problems and retired from practice early in the session, but it looks like both cars were repaired and will be back out on track tomorrow

Canada Qually

Think it'll rain, eh?

Yes indeed it will and it did!

Qually turned out to be a strategy tire call as it rained all thru P3 too, so by the time qually started the track was drying, but there was more on the way, by the time it got towards the end of Q3 it was really pouring it down.

Good timing and keeping it on the track meant Max got pole again, but the surprises included the Hulk in P2!

So, for the race tomorrow

P1 Max
P2 The Hulk
P3 Alonso
P4 Hamster
P5 Russell
P6 Ocon
P7 Norris
P8 Sainz (but he may get a grid penalty for impeding)
P9 Piastri
P10 Albon
P11 LeClerc (once again a victim of Ferrari's poor strategy calls)
P12 Perez (likewise, Red Bull missed the call for him to go to slicks)
P13 Stroll
P14 KMag
P15 Bottas
P16 Tsunoda
P17 Gasly (victim of Sainz's impeding)
P18 DeVries
P19 Sargeant
P20 Zhou (victim of his car's transmission in Q1, fixed in time for to get back out, but by then the rain had started again)

So, tomorrow's race could be interesting for some of the faster cars out of place. Interesting to see how far the Hulk will fall and how far Kmag might come forward. Can Alonso stay ahead of the Mercs?

Lastly - will it rain again?

Well, that one went pretty much as expected - the race was dry so no rain dramatics. The finish was a little closer because of a mid race safety car which closed things up again and gave Lando a penalty for trying to back up the cars behind him to get a run on them when they got the green again. That penalty took him from the points and left him in 13th as things were really bunched up from 7th on back.

Speaking of 7th - Alex Albon took the Williams there, so they def have made some real improvements to that car.

Demoting Lando put Stroll and Bottas into the points in 9th and 10th.

The Ferraris were able to move up to 4th and 5th, but all race Sainz was told not to pass LeClerc, and they were coaching LeClerc as to where Sainz was quicker and where he could improve. Sent a pretty clear message to Sainz, didn't they?

Russell hit the wall and had to retire later in the race, his lack of points coupled with Stroll getting into 9th let Aston get a little closer in the points to Mercedes, Ferrari bringing up a distant 4th but also helped by getting both drivers in the points

I was amazed that Russell managed to continue after that impact with the wall.  The rear suspension and gearbox must be strong on the Merc.

Norris' penalty was a strange one.  I thought that he was already far enough back to not have had an issue with double stacking anyway.  And I thought that the drivers had a time to drive to on there steering wheels. 

New livery for Alpine

Silverstone

Mad Max again on pole, his 5th in a row......but not by much.

Encouraging to see - both McLarens in P2 and P3, the two Ferraris behind them and the two Mercs behind them.

The crowd gave a mighty roar when "give it a go Lando" went fastest of all, a few moments later you could also hear the groan as Max pipped him for P1.

Still, a fun qually, and should be a good fight tomorrow.

Well, that was a corker!

Lando getting ahead for the first few laps was fun to watch, but just as Alonso did earlier in the season, it was fait accompli as soon as Max got DRS.

Lots of strange tire strategies, and - as usual - Ferrari got it all wrong.

Good race to watch tho! Seems like it was over pretty quickly - I guess the combination of a long track but really fast made for a quick race.

And the safety car generated a little bit of excitement when Hamilton was on used soft tires and Norris on new hard tires.

The other driver/team that did well was Albon and Williams with a competitive finish in 8th in front of both Ferraris and pushing Alonso all the way to the line.

Ferrari have had terrible race strategy all year.  Also, from the casual observer, seems that Ferrari engines are down on power.  The highest placed Ferrari powered car was 9th.  Does not bode well for Monza later in the year.

Yeah, putting the McLaren on hards seemed like a real gamble, but it paid off. The Hamster was amazed that he couldn't pass and later couldn't even catch Lando....

Ferrari has been woeful all season, I DO wonder what they heck is going on over there. I look at the condition Fred left Alfa in and really wonder if he was the right choice for Ferrari.

I guess it could be that Alfa has just stopped developing the car or spending money till Audi does their final takeover and the flood of Deutschmarks can start washing over the team.

McLaren clearly has made a big step forward, almost like Aston seemed to do early in the season.

Max is saying that he can win both championships for the team by himself - heck of a jab at Perez, wasn't it? I don't expect to see Checo at Red Bull next season even tho he has a 2024 contract in his back pocket. I'm not sure it will be DannyRic tho......even tho Max seems to think he'd be the better teammate at this point.

I doubt Red Bull will pull Checo mid season, he is experienced enough and has an experienced enough team of advisors to make the contract iron clad, so he will see out the season to the end.  Next year they may just pay him off, not the first or the last time that has happened (Ferrari paid Kimi his full salary so they could sign Alonso in 2010).   

De Vries on the other hand, I don't see him lasting the whole season.  Helmut Marko does not tolerate bad choices well, so I wonder if we will see De Vries after the summer break.  Two rumors I saw 1) Danny Ric will get the seat effective as a test/competition with Tsunoda for the second seat at Red Bull next year or 2) Liam Lawson is currently top of the Red Bull juniors pile and is racing in Japan in the Super Formula series, he could be slotted in to De Vries seat for the second half of the season. 

Danny Ric has openly said he would take an seat at Alpha Tauri, if he was certain it would provide a route to the Red Bull team.

Turns out one of my predictions happened sooner than I thought!
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricciardo-to-replace-de-vries-at-alphatauri-f1-with-immediate-effect/10494749/ (https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricciardo-to-replace-de-vries-at-alphatauri-f1-with-immediate-effect/10494749/)

Brutal. I wonder what the "valuable contributions" were that DeVries gave AlphaTauri, as Tost commented?

I thought it might happen after the summer break like you said, and DannyRic has been dropping broad hints about it practically all season.

Still, is driving an underperforming car the rest of the season really going to get him in shape to challenge for Checo's seat?

I thought Verstappen's comments were pretty brutal too - he's saying in essence 'I am the team", the rest are irrelevant.

This is Danny Ric's opportunity to relaunch his career.  I think his weakness is showing he can support a car that needs development, he did not show that he excelled at that at Renault or McLaren.  He probably has a couple of seasons to prove he still has it.

Verstappen's comments were what I expect from him.  He does not believe he needs the support of a second driver.  And right now he is probably correct.  The way he is out performing Checo shows that he has something special.  I do not like the guy, but he is really on another level right now. 

 

Hungary

Looking forward to this race as it's a very different track from what they've run at so far. I also want to see whether McLaren's surge forward was at the expense of Ferrari, Mercedes and Aston or just a one time thing on a track that favored their package.

And what of Aston? They went from track darlings to "where the heck are they?"

All in all, I think this will be a good weekend to sort out the run order - but a lot of teams are bringing big improvements after the summer break - so who knows? The one thing that seems fairly certain is Max's dominance......can it continue the rest of the season?

Danny Ricky Bobby had better have a great weekend, too....

One last comment - the Hamster has become pretty vocal about how Red Bull's dominance is bad for the sport.....which is just amazing considering the 7 seasons HE had when no one could touch Mercedes.

Quote from: MiniDave on July 18, 2023, 02:31:55 PMOne last comment - the Hamster has become pretty vocal about how Red Bull's dominance is bad for the sport.....which is just amazing considering the 7 seasons HE had when no one could touch Mercedes.

This is hilarious as Mr C Horner is now saying that he sees no need for rules about this.  3-4 years ago he was saying exactly the same thing as Hamilton!

Yep, they're all a bunch of hypocrites.

I'm reading that Red Bull has a bunch of upgrades for this weekend's race at the hungry-ring, the Hamster might be even more unhappy after this weekend. Who knows?

It will be interesting to see if Aston bounces back, and if McLaren's new form has some staying power. I've completely given up on Ferrari - so watch, they'll win this weekend or something!

I'm also reading that whether the big 10 like it or not, Andretti Cadillac and another team will be on the grid at some point......probably in '26.

I'm also reading that if by some strange chance Danny Ric comes in and lights up the field, it could spell the end of Yuki's F1 career too, in favor of Liam Lawson.

Norris said that McLaren was still had problems in slow speed corners, so will not be surprised if they are lower down the order than Silverstone.  Really depends on how far down they are down.

Ferrari needs to make a change, just not sure what that change is.  Rumor mill this week is they are trying to Albon to replace Sainz in 2025.  However, not sure if Leclerc will want to stay much longer with all of the frustration he going through. 

Yuki is doing a pretty good job, I think if he does lose his drive at Red Bull/Alpha Tauri, he could get a drive with another team.  He has proven he was a match for Gasly. 

I wonder at what point Aston Martin's sponsors demand a better number two driver and Stroll Jr is forced out.  He has had some great moments, but he is very inconsistent.

He is, but I doubt the board will be able to override Daddie's wishes, and I think daddy is firmly in Jr's court. In fact, I'm pretty sure that despite what the media says he originally bought a racing team so that his son could wear racing jammies.

I'm thinking that unless the kid starts costing them either sponsors  or championships, he's safe. That's not to say Pops can't encourage his son to move to endurance racing or something like that instead.

Hungary Qually - shocker!

Hamilton beats Verstappen and gets his record breaking 9th pole at the H-ring.....

I don't know if Verstappen was just playing it cool as he had a lap deleted in Q2 and wanted to make sure he was at least at the front or if the track kept improving as the Hamster was the last man over the line, but whatever......it worked.

Looks like the McLarens are definitely in the mix too as Lando and Oscar are P3 and P4, and now an even bigger shocker - Zhou in P5 for Alfa, and backing him up P7 for Bottas, P8 for the Hulk who is def having a better year than Kmag, especially where qually is concerned as he's P19.

More shocker - Russell not having a good time as he couldn't get out of Q1 and landed in P18. Hamster in 1st and his teammate in 18th.

Checo couldn't do much, only able to get to P9, Leclerc in P6 a little better for Ferrari, but Sainz way down in P11.

So, a real mixed grid on a difficult to pass on track and no love lost between the top 2. I expect Hammy to get away and keep 1st, but I think DRS will get Max by at some point, then it will be up to tire strategy, and the woman who runs Red Bull's strategy has been really sharp the last few years.

DannyRickyBobby did out qualify Tsunoda 13th vs 17th, so a decent start for him with AlphaToroTauriRosso....

The race tomorrow should be interesting - as is the usual for this race, they expect it to be HOT and dry.

OH, I almost forgot - the big change for qually - everyone on the same tire - Hards in Q1, Mediums in Q2 and Softs in Q3......I'm not sure yet but I think that may be a good idea - although some cars may be better on one tire than the other (the Macs are really good on mediums at this track) it does even things out a bit. Oh, and they get 2 sets fewer this race, maybe that will have some effect on strategy too?

Well......that didn't go as planned, at least for Mercedes. Still they can take comfort in the improvements they've made since the first of the year.....same for McLaren.

So, at the start, Lewis went from 1st to 4th, then proceeded to work his way backward for a while.....

Red Bull set a record for the most wins in a row, Perez had a stormer of a race and the McLarens made a terrific start and held on to finish 2nd and 5th

Verstappen had his usual race, got in front by the first turn and never looked back. At some point the team was "just checking in" as they hadn't heard a word out of him....his reponse "everything's OK"

Zhou had a miserable race, starting 5th but getting a horrible start and was in 15th by the first corner and finishing well down the order in 17th. Only Kmag was slower. I don't understand what has happened to the HAAS and why they haven't been able to make progress on their tire issues.

Margin of victory P1 - P2, around 33 seconds. If Red Bull (and Max) win in Monza they will have clinched both championships - just past the halfway point in the season! Not so good for the sport, but good for Red Bull!

Spa

Last race before the summer break.....and this has been an interesting weekend. It rained a bunch.....1st practice practically rained out. Sprint qually a complete mess as it rained, then the sun came out and dried the track - teams were scrambling to change tires and take advantage of a rapidly improving track.

The Sprint race was more of the same, tho once the track started drying out Max was gone, gaining 1 sec a lap! Piastri finished 2nd for his best result of his F1 career.

Today's race looked like it would be dry, which in a way also threw a wrench into the teams plans as they didn't have hardly any dry running to calculate fuel use and tire wear....and then about half way thru the race it rained! The forecast called for heavy rain but it didn't, just light rain and enough that teams could still run slicks....but tire degradation was a factor, some teams pitting three times, most twice and only a couple of runners able to do it on one stop.

McLaren thought it might rain all weekend so they set their car up for maximum downforce, which worked great when it was raining, but not so much when the track dried out, leaving them slow on the long straights.

At the end Max was ahead of 2nd place Checo by 22 sec, and 3rd place LeClerc by 10 more, so it was business as usual for him.

The Red Bull/Max train rolls on!

The team points standings have changed quite a bit....Red Bull so far out in front that only some sort of major catastrophe can keep them from winning both championships now.

Mercedes has come on strong - benefitting from getting both drivers into the points on almost every race. Aston has dropped back after the strong start, hampered in part by Stroll's (lack of) performance.

Ferrari only a few points behind Aston in 4th, but suffering from the same issue, only seeming able to get one car in the points in each race.

McLaren way back and kind of alone in 5th...I'm not sure they can bridge the gap to Ferrari in 4th and Aston in 3rd, tho if Ferrari can start getting both drivers in the points consistently I think they can take third from Aston.

Alpine so disappointed  in their lack of performance this season that they fired their top 2 team managers after Spa.....they are a long way back from McLaren in 6th after finishing 4th last year.

The other 4 teams are so far back as to not be a factor.

LeClerc agrees to a new 5 year deal with Farrari, said to be worth $200 million!

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/1001325/charles-leclerc-ferrari-new-deal-f1-record-breaking/#:~:text=According%20to%20Sportune%2C%20the%20new,all%2Dtime%20record%20for%20F1. (https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/1001325/charles-leclerc-ferrari-new-deal-f1-record-breaking/#:~:text=According%20to%20Sportune%2C%20the%20new,all%2Dtime%20record%20for%20F1.)

F1 is back this weekend in the Netherlands. 

Danny Ric crashed in FP2 and broke a bone in his hand/wrist and will not be taking part in the rest of the weekend. Red Bull junior Liam Lawson is going to take over for the rest of the weekend.

They've been talking about getting him in a car since last season, so it will be interesting to see how he does......Yuki was going well tho. Really bad timing for DannyRickyBobby tho.....

Well, that was a corker! Nothing like a little rain to spice things up - tho it appears there is no stopping Verstappen this season!

Lawson did well in his first race, staying out of trouble and off the walls to finish 13th, we'll see how he does at Monza as I doubt Danny Ric will be able to drive by then, but who knows? Look what Stroll did in the first race this year.....

The Red Bull train keeps rolling on, can they win every race this year?

Lawson will be in the Alpha Tauri at Monza. 

Red Bull also favored Max this weekend when the pitted him first and he undercut Checo. Also Checo is continuing to make too many mistakes, it probably will not be an issue this year as Max is running away with everything, but if the constructors title fight was closer it would be bigger issue for his future with the team.

McLaren had a really good race and if their luck had run differently they could have been on the podium.

Hamilton felt he had the pace at the end where he could have challenged Verstappen, the issue was he was no where near him!  However, he did have a good race from where he started.  It does seem that the Mercedes are making incremental gains that are adding up to a decent improvement in performance.

Gasly lucked on to the podium with Checo's penalty, but he had a good race overall.

Albon was a contender for driver of the day in my opinion, he stayed on slicks through the first part of the race and was doing pretty well until some others had better tires and a slow stop if I remember correctly (there was so many I may be wrong).  He is really outperforming Sargeant, Albon deserves a drive with a better team, I am sure he has a clause in his contract that would release him if a faster team came knocking.  Not sure who that would be, but Sainz is reported to have signed a letter of intent with Audi so maybe a Ferrari seat could be available.

Albon should replace Checho, but that might be a hard one for him to consider.....isn't he on loan from Mercedes? Seems like the Hamster's seat is the one he should shoot for. He's been punching well above his weight all season long....

I think it's encouraging how many constructors are tightening up the fight at the front now.

I'm not convinced Vasseur is the right fit for Ferrari.....if they keep having such a dismal performance, I can't see them keeping him. Not having the right tires out AGAIN speaks poorly to their organization as whole. I mean, who's driving this bus? LeClerc tried to rally the troops during the race, then they screwed up his stop......not that it would have mattered in the end as he clearly had damage. Meanwhile Sainz just keeps doing the best he can with what he has, and at least finishes races.

After last year's successes, it's a hard pill to swallow for George this season, to see all these mistakes and poor strategy decisions. I hope they get on the same page before the season gets too much further along.

Ferrari just seem so good at dropping the ball.  And there has been no noticeable improvement with the arrival of Vasseur.

In the commentary they mentioned the reason the tires were not ready is because LeClerc just came in and only told the team he was coming in when he was already entering the pit lane.  Rumor has it LeClerc is close to signing a long term deal which is going to put him on the same level of money as Hamilton and Verstappen, but he must be having second thoughts with all of the issues they have with strategy. 

I would like to see Albon somewhere else than Red Bull, I think he could be a good fit for Ferrari as Sainz is meant to be going to the new Audi team. 

George and Lewis have signed to stay with Mercedes until the end of the 2025 season. A large chuck of the grid is settled for next season, with only 4 seats remain at Sauber, Alpha Tauri (2) and Williams.

I predict that Williams will retain Sargeant for 2024, James Vowles has indicated they are happy with his performance.  The only wrench I see in that is if Mercedes work to put Mick Schumacher in the race seat there.

Sauber (not Alfa Romeo after this season) is a little more complicated with Audi now having a stake in the team.  And there were rumors that Sainz had signed a pre-contract to race for them in 2025 after his deal with Ferrari is done.  I think their are two options, they stick with Zhou for consistency or they run a Ferrari junior as part of a deal to reduce their engine bill and allow Ferrari to prep for when Sainz leaves.

Alpha Tauri, Toro Rosso, Minardi or what ever they will be called next year.  Although Yuki has done a good job, I am not convinced he is a prospect for a promotion to the main Red Bull team.  I would like to see Riccardo and Lawson there as a battle for the 2nd Red Bull seat in 2025 (Checo's contract is up at the end of 2024).

Wow! That was some race at Monza.  Too bad Carlos could not maintain the lead after starting on pole but I guess that was inevitable. 

I thought for sure the inter-team rivalry between Charles and Carlos would result in the teammates running each other off the track in the manner of Lewis and Nico. Or Prost and Senna.

The race was great.  I think Liam Lawson did a great job subbing for Riccardo after the chaos that was the race in Zandvort.

The other driver that did a great job was Albon, he managed to hang on and keep Norris behind him after the team pitted him early.

Hamilton showed that the strategy of putting the faster tire on towards the end worked to allow him to climb up the leaderboard a little, even if he did drive into Piastri on the way!

Singapore next, which I always enjoy.

What in the world has happened to Aston Martin, and in particular Alonso? After such an incredible start to the season they have dropped off the map, with Stroll unable to even get out of Q1......

First Mercedes passed them, and now Ferrari has gone by in the constructor's standings. While they still could beat Ferrari, it's looking more and more like they'll be lucky to finish 4th after being 2nd thru the early part of the season, and looking like they might even get lucky and win one or two.

Mercedes has a pretty strong grip on 2nd, being almost 50 points ahead of Ferrari, but a few more weekends like this one and it could get pretty tight for 2nd in the championship.

The only question left now is can Red Bull run the table this season?

Alpha Tauri has signed a deal with Hugo Boss for the next couple of seasons, so I guess they'll be the "Boss" team?

Aston Martin has seemed to be a car that works or simply doesn't, no in between.  Only Alonso's skill is dragging it along, and they need a decent driver in the second seat, although Stroll is going to retain that because Daddy owns the team. Are they suffering from lack of resources for in season development?  I know they are investing in new technology at home base, wondering if that not being available yet is hurting them.

The championship run for second is pretty interesting.  If Verstappen was excluded from all results it would be a super interesting season.

The only way Red Bull are not going to when everything this season, they are going to have to screw up.  I cannot see anyone beating Max and Red Bull in a straight fight.

Interesting on Alpha Tauri, wonder if this is the beginning of the end of the second Red Bull team.

I think it's very possible that Alpha Tauri/Hugo Boss will become Andretti Global/Cadillac F1, that sidesteps all the mess about dilution of earnings the big 10 are worried about, and lets them hit the track running, with the major pieces already in place.

Well, isn't that an interesting change of events? Red Bull having an absolutely miserable weekend, qually and - I'm betting - race tomorrow.

I think Lawson is doing a stellar job, and if he finishes well here and at Suzuka, will there be any reason to put DannyRickyBobby back in the car this season?

A real conundrum at RedBull/Tauro Rossi/Alpha/Boss for the end of the season......

I wonder if old man Stroll will pull his son out of the car at the end of this season over concerns about his life being at risk? Good excuse to send him to the tennis courts and get someone stronger in the car?

Carlos has been on a tear lately, I'm really pleased to see him killing it like this, and a win would really put the exclamation point on this part of his season with Ferrari....as well as put him in serious contention for a seat at Audi, if he wants it. Although, everyone is excited for Audi coming into the championship, but I don't really expect them in the front row right off the bat.

Plus, too and also, it's looking more and more like Andretti Global will be on track in 2026 too.

Wow!!!

What a race !!!!

Amazing how the racing improves when a Red Bull isn't in front.....

It was awesome, but F1 still has its perennial issue that overtaking is just impossible.  It seems ridiculous that you need a 2 second per lap advantage to overtake.

Carlos tactic of giving Lando DRS was awesome and really showed how much capacity the drivers have to think whilst driving the car. 

See if it is back to regular scheduled programming in Japan with Red Bull at the front.

Yep, Singapore has proven to be an aberration, just as we all thought.....Max on pole by a significant amount, most everyone else bunched up tightly behind him, the two Big Macs the best of the rest and if they get the strategy just right, might be able to pull off an upset?

They're suggesting that this could be as much as a 3 stop race due to the aggressive race surface and high tire wear.....so that could give rise to mistakes or under/over cuts.

Or Red Bull (at least Max, since Checo was .7 sec/lap slower in qually) will drive off into the distance and they'll win the constructor's this weekend.

Is this LeClerc's weekend to run in front and Sainz to run support and interference?

Too bad about little Liam Lawson losing his ride later this year in favor of DannyRickyBobby, but it was to be expected I guess. With Honda paying his way, I always expected Yuki to get another season or two, and it's nice to see he pulled up into Q3 in response, now if he can avoid a 1st lap incident and finish ahead of Lawson, their support will look somewhat justified.

All in all, the end of the season is looking better at least for competition, despite the Hamster's doom and gloom prognostications, there they are in 7th and 8th and poised to jump up if someone (Ferrari) messes up.

Rumors getting stronger that Mick the Younger will be taking the Sarge's ride away next season. Although Vowles still gives him strong verbal support, I have a feeling Mercedes is pushing buttons offstage.

I know in every race someone has to be last, and it's been encouraging seeing the occasional Williams, Alpha Tauri or even HAAS in the top 10, it would be nice if the order got shook up more often. Maybe Bernies idea of putting the sprinklers on wasn't so crazy after all?   :cheesy:

(yes, it was!)

Honda wins in Hondaland!

Max did exactly as he has all season and simply drove off into the sunset, but the real story to me is the resurgence of McLaren who finished 2nd and 3rd.....although they were 19 seconds back, so they still have some work to do to catch the Red Bulls.

Checo had a miserable day, getting banged around and doing plenty of banging back (replacing 2 front wings!) till the car had to be retired. One interesting note, they repaired Checo's car just enough that he could go back on track for one lap......he had a 5 sec penalty and by doing that lap he's served the penalty and it won't carry over into the next race!

McLaren's improved performance means they could overtake Aston in the championship, especially since Stroll hasn't posted any points in many races, and doesn't look like he will the rest of the year based on his current performance. Aston certainly has fallen off from their strong start at the beginning of the season.

Ferrari also has a shot of passing Mercedes in the championship too, based on both cars finishing every race ahead of the Mercs, but it's going to be close with only 4 (5?) races left. Something I wouldn't have expected earlier in the season when they surged so far ahead....

Logan Sargeant didn't do anything to help further his career, retiring yet again, although his teammate did as well.

Lots of rumors that Norris will wind up driving a Red Bull at some point, and everyone thinks he will be able to give Max a real run for the money. Won't happen till the 25 season as Checo has a contract for next year - tho we all know just how much F1 contracts mean.....

Christian Horner basically said that Checo, DannyRic and Yuki are all auditioning for the second Red Bull seat for 2025. If Checo continues they way he is going, in the first part of next season, he will get demoted or even fired from Red Bull.  If the constructors championship had been closer I suspect he would have lost his drive some time ago. 

He may even be at risk for next year if he does not finish second in the drivers championship this year.  Checo is only 43 points ahead of 3rd place, with 6 races remaining - Red Bull has never finished 1st and 2nd in the championship, given how dominant they have been, this must be a target this year.

There is only one seat remaining on the grid for next season.  Right now, I cannot see Logan Sargeant retaining the seat at Williams - he really seems out of depth in an F1 car. Mercedes/Toto Wolff has made some comments about getting Mick Schumacher in an F1 seat, but recent there has been reports about him driving for Alpine in WEC. Williams are not under pressure to make an announcement as it is the final seat, likely it will be after the season has ended.

Is Logan Sargeant being money to Williams - as that could influence things?

Lawson is making a strong case for winding up in a seat somewhere, he finished ahead of Yuki this weekend too......I'm sure the Honda connection is helping Yuki's case as I know he's bringing lots of under the table money, and DannyRickyBobby has the marquee appeal as well as being a "seasoned" driver. Funny how the Sarge just isn't cutting it in F1 while Lawson is flying.....and they're both in back-marker cars.

If I were Red Bull and I could get him now, I'd get Norris signed up for 24 and send Checo to the showers.....maybe Red Bull and McLaren could do a dealer trade?  :grin:

I sure hope HAAS brings some new stuff as they have been pretty woeful the last couple of seasons.

I doubt McLaren would do a deal.  They locked Norris in with a contract extension to the end of 2025, which was driven by him still being on his rookie contract and Red Bull and others sniffing around offering big bucks. He went from around a $1 million a year to $20 million a year (and a move to Monaco as a tax exile followed!).  I suspect the recent Oscar Piastri contract did something similar.

No doubt Lawson should get an opportunity in F1, mind you everyone thought that De Vries deserved one as well!

Haas need to sort out their in season development, last year they had to cut back due to Mick Schumacher's crash bill. Not got that excuse this year. Did you see that Guthner Steiner could be taking Gene Haas to court over promises to give him a percentage of team ownership?

I did, which is all the more reason why I think Andretti is on the verge of buying a team.....

Andretti has been approved by the FIA to be the 11th F1 team.  Now they need to negotiate with F1/FOM.

First the sprint, it was good and seemed to be more like what they wanted a sprint to be.  Lots of overtaking and drivers coming together . 

The race was different as they put limits on all the tires (max of 18 laps) so everyone was forced to do a 3 stop race.  There were some good fights up and down the field, but I did not like the amount of math that I was doing during the race working out who was fighting with who.  Ultimately, Max still won and was heavily managing the pace.  Mclaren's were on the podium, and that is a great turnaround from the beginning of the season.  Mercedes crashed into each other, Lewis took the blame for that. And Perez is doing his best to be fired by Red Bull.

Another talking point after the race was the conditions that caused a number of drivers to be severely dehydrated and have heatstroke.  Logan Sargeant (who was not feeling well before the race) retired, had to be helped out of the car and went to the medical center.  Ocon admitted to throwing up early in the race. Stroll needed medical attention after the race, getting help from a ambulance crew in parc ferme (and said he was blacking out in some of the high speed corners).  Albon ended up in the medical center with dehyrdration.  Alonso asked for water to be thrown over him in the pit stop (which they could not do as adding weight to the car during the race is illegal).  All drivers were impacted, but some of the worst impacted were from the same teams - so wonder if car design had an influence in it.  In some of the tin top racing, the drivers use cool suits to help keep them cool during the race, but that would add weight!  Anyway the FIA have announced an investigation into the circumstances and to see if there is something they can do to prevent it happening again.

I have an idea of how to fix this, don't race in the middle of the effing desert! What a miserable track, stands in only one place, sand all over the track (Sainz quipped during the Sprint race that his dad would do well on this track - a nod to his dad's desert and off road racing past) - I'm sure referencing how much sand was on the track surface.

I loved when Alonso went off and found the support road to come back on track!

The teams used this race as a setup for the Mexican GP, even tho that race won't probably be as hot it will have even less cooling for the cars because of the altitude and thinner air density.

Congrats to Max (the only driver who did not exceed track limits during the race! Not one penalty.....so clearly, it can be done.) on his third championship. Next season is shaping up to be a corker with McLaren sniffing at Red Bull's gearboxes now, Ferrari occasionally able to run with them and Mercedes making progress too.

Next up is Austin which I don't think favors any one team a lot (well maybe Red Bull) so it might turn out to be an interesting race too. Also HAAS will be bringing their new B spec car, and while KMag doesn't expect radical changes, he's hoping it will be better balanced and allow them better tire wear so they can challenge the mid pack ....

So, while the overall championship was a forgone conclusion from about race 4, it has been interesting to see the resurgence of McLaren, sad to see Aston fall off so much (or did the others just catch up and go on by?)

Stroll Sr. really has a quandry on his hands now.....some say the reason they're going ahead with the Valkyrie endurance program is to give Lance a way to gracefully leave the F1 team. If so, I wonder who they'll target to pair up with Alonso?

And now Stroll Jr is under investigation for his strop of Friday!

Aston Martin could be losing out on a big chuck of prize money as they could end up dropping below McLaren in the constructors championship.  Alonso has scored more than 4x as many points as Stroll. The only other pairing that has a bigger difference is at Williams.

Also when do the sponsors start questioning the driver choice, when the difference is so great?  There must be performance clauses in the sponsorship contracts that his lack of performance is costing them 10s of millions.

Would not surprise me to see him eased out of his seat......but who will they get to replace him? Perez? DannyRic? Everyone thinks he's going to wind up back with Max.....

Would Aston go with another rookie? Would an experienced driver work well with Alonso? I hear Vettel misses F1.....

Oh.....and McLaren does a 1.8 sec pitstop!!?!?!?? how is that even possible? Freakin amazing is what that is......and I thought Red Bull was quick to change tires.....

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/38678266/patrick-mahomes-travis-kelce-rory-mcilroy-200m-alpine-f1-investment (https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/38678266/patrick-mahomes-travis-kelce-rory-mcilroy-200m-alpine-f1-investment)

For our members who may not know who these two guys are, they are the quarterback and tight end players of the Kansas City Chiefs football team. Why is this significant? Well - it shows just how damn much money is involved in sports - they must really pay these guys!

Travis Kelce has also been in the news lately for his choice of female companionship - or is it her choice? Well, at any rate the world seems to think they're an item (for those who don't know he's been dating Taylor Swift, and she's been to at least three Chiefs game s in recent weeks.)

Just more links between F1 and the NFL.  Hamilton is part of the Broncos ownership group and Danny Ric is a big Buffalo Bills fan (not sure if is part of the ownership group).

I am going to a Chiefs game in December with a friend from Austin who is KC native and a big fan.

Well, both Ferrari and Mercedes have to be sick about having Lewis and Charles disqualified from the race in Austin after they found the wear plank below minimum thickness......Ferrari still came out better than Mercedes tho, after all the scores were re-tallied up they outscored the Mercs 24 to 18, Sainz is on the podium and they move to within 22 points of them overall with 4 races left. Looks like there could be a real scrap for 2nd place in the championship yet!

Aston has lost 4th place to McLaren, and Alonso having to retire the car when both he and Lance were in the points has to hurt too. Their form has really dropped off in the second half of the season after a terrific start - or else other teams have just caught up and passed them by.....I don't know the real answer.......but McLaren has 4th locked up as long as they continue they way they have. With lameduck Lance driving I don't expect Aston to charge back, but who knows?

HAAS didn't see much benefit from their updated car, but in a Sprint weekend they really don't get a chance to set the car up properly - they're just guessing with only one short 1 hour practice session. I don't know if the next race will really help them either, since it's in the rarified air of Mexico City.

Did anyone find out what Max was bitching about on his brakes all weekend?

Quote from: MiniDave on October 23, 2023, 08:36:19 AMDid anyone find out what Max was bitching about on his brakes all weekend?

Red Bull changed the brakes after the sprint (which is within the rules) and during the whole race the brakes "gave no feeling".  So at the big stops Max did not have confidence.

And Logan Sargeant was gifted his first F1 point! I guess gifted is a little strong, he drove hard to finish 12th......either way he's in the club now!  :13:

Quote from: MiniDave on October 23, 2023, 04:08:28 PMAnd Logan Sargeant was gifted his first F1 point! I guess gifted is a little strong, he drove hard to finish 12th......either way he's in the club now!  :13:

I was surprised by that stat that he was the first american to score F1 points since Michael Andretti!  I thought Scott Speed or Alexander Rossi had nicked a point somewhere.

Someone speculated that they hadn't gotten the cooling right, but they'll have a regular 3 practice sessions in Mexico, so I expect more Max-imum effort!  :grin:

I did see an interesting graphic of Lewis, Charls and Max's cars all at the exact same spot in the same corner during the race, the other two were dragging, you could see daylight under Max's.....I wonder if things like this drove their choice of which cars to check?

Lando thinks the next 4 tracks are good tracks for their cars.....I think he's thinking there might be a possible win at one of them. I think possible is probably more like wishful, but who knows?

Posted without comment.....   :cheesy:

Not sure what I am looking at, but something seems off about the composition - almost photoshpped.

It may be, but it's a humorous take on using the wood planks from under the cars as surfboards.....note Charles and Lewis are in wetsuits with bare feet.....

The planks in the picture also have exactly the same wear/staining patterns.

I think it either photoshopped or GenAI created. The original plank picture is taken from this article.

https://www.wtf1.com/post/why-is-f1-becoming-obsessed-with-wooden-planks/

Mexico qually....

Wow! what a surprise finish! All day the Ferraris had looked mediocre, then in Q3 it all came together...LeClerc on pole, Sainz right beside him in P2 as they both pulled out monstrous laps out of nowhere.

Verstappen came P3, but the next shocker is Ricky Ricciardo in the Toro Rosso....erm Alpha Tauri in 4th! I think Verstappen will probably win because the Red Bull is easier on its tires, but as he said in the interview "we'll see how it goes".

The rest of the top 10 are Checo, Hammy, Oscar, George, Valterri and Zhou.

All thru practice the Williams of Albon was punching way above its weight, but when it came to qually it was nowhere. He did manage to get thru Q2 but 14th was the best he could do.

Norris had an absolute nightmare of qually, and will start 19th, so it will be fun to see him working his way thru the field. The Astons and HAAS were miserable all weekend, and since both brought new major updates recently I'm a bit surprised at their lack of pace.

There may be some readjusting of the grid before tomorrow's race as there were shenanigans going on during a yellow and with cars bunched up behind Russell at pit out....we'll see if anything comes of that.....but neither of the Ferrari drivers were involved in any of it, so I think their grid spots are solid.

Since it's a looonnnnggggg way down to the first corner, Max thinks he'll get a tow and might wind up P1 by turn 2. Or it could all end in tears. Should be a fun race no matter what happens as tire wear and strategies will be important......

Well, somehow the shenanigans didn't seem to be a problem and the grid mostly stood, except Stroll's Aston started from the pitlane as they decided it was better to make some changes to the cars and as they were so far back it didn't really matter. Yuki also started from the back due to power unit changes.

So, starting from 17th now, Lando drove like a man possessed all race long and provided most of the entertainment of the race, especially in the closing laps as he chased down and passed Russell and Ricciardo.....

Checo made a great start but both Ferraris didn't, and as they arrived at the first corner Charles found himself the meat in a Red Bull sammich, with no where to go Checo tried to turn in but Charles was already there......they clashed and poor Checo's race was done, to the extreme disappointment of a million Mexican F1 fans that had come to cheer him on.

In the meantime Max - who had gotten a great start - simply did what he's done all season and drove off into the sunset - at least till Kmag had his rear suspension break, clouting the safer barriers. They red flagged the race so they could repair the wall.....this allowed the teams to change tires (those that had any left) and repair some of the damage they might have gotten in the course of the first half.

This set the stage for the second race, as they had another standing start. Max again got away clean and the rest followed....Hamster was behind both Ferraris and made his way thru to 2nd place, Charles in 3rd and Sainz in 4th with Russell closing hard, but unable to make the pass work. They went on like this till Russell's tires began to fade.....in the meantime Lando had been driving thru the field making pass after pass.....he closed in and passed Ricciardo, then Russell but that was as far as he could get in the remaining laps.

So Max wins from the Hamster with Charles coming third after starting on pole - and for all the talk about how much better the Mercs are going Hammy still finished 16 second behind Max, in basically half race distance - so the Red Bulls still have at least 20-30 secs on the field over race distance.

Despite Horner's arm around Checo's shoulders to console him, if Ricciardo continues to have race weekends like he did in Mexico, I think Checo will "retire" next year and DannyRickyBobby will be Max's teammate.....he clearly was in his old form this weekend!

Both Aston's retired before the end of the race, only Stroll was able to make anything of his race getting as high as 11th at one point, but falling back as the race went on till he also crashed. Alonso retired earlier and I don't see any way they can finish higher in the constructors than 5th now, with McLaren 20 pts ahead and charging forward, while they seem to be heading backward and all Alonso's great work at the start of the season falling aside.

The Mercs are still some 22 pts ahead of Ferrari in third place due as much as anything to the consistent points finishes by both drivers. I think the only way Ferrari can make up this deficit is if the Mercs have a double DNF, which is very unlikely.

There seems to be loads of rumors that could create "silly season part 2".
- Alonso has a performance clause in his contract and could leave.  Could head to Red Bull!
- As Dave mentioned, Checo could "retire" and Danny Ric gets the second seat, this opens up the 2nd Alpha Tauri seat for Liam Lawson.
- Lawrence Stroll is going to get bored with F1, and sell Aston Martin.  This leads to Lance Stroll "retiring".

All of these seem pretty far fetched!

Yep the rumor mill is in high gear! Yet every one of these ideas has merit.....whether any of them come true or not remains to be seen.

I thought the idea of Lance going to the LeMans team was a good way to get him out of the F1 team and to get someone in that could perform - if not on Alonso's level, at least score points on a regular basis. That would also make it easier for Daddy Bigbux to ease himself out of the F1 team too, and yet still keep his hands in Aston. Although I read today that they think Daddy Stroll sold his stake in Aston to the Saudis

I feel for Checo......just as when VW says they fully support the current CEO that means he's at that very moment cleaning out his desk and on his way out the door.....I think all the "support" Red Bull is showing Checo is the same idea, and he'll decide maybe it's time to "retire" on his own. With a little push from Horner et al.

DannyRickyBobby needs to have three more races like Mexico before that will have any teeth IMHO.

Wow, that was a stunning race - from 3rd place on back! Alonso and Checo goin at it, poor George had an up and down race - mostly down, the Mercs seemed to be really off the pace with an 8th the best the Hamster could do.....even Lance had a decent race to finish 5th. I heard Aston ditched all their updates and went back to the earlier spec car - seemed to work with Alonso on the podium once again.

Both Alpines in the points, Yuki too tho Ricky Ricciardo got caught up in the first lap kerfluffle.....Sargeant York finished 11th but I think that was mostly due to the 6 cars that DNF'd.....including LeClerc on the formation lap!

Next up a 2 week break then on to the spectacle that I expect the Las Vegas "race" to be.....which may turn out to be the final race of the season due to the "unrest" in the middle east......

Perez was in such a better form than he's been in the last races easily passing so many other cars. But even with the most capable racecar on the track and with DRS (!) Alonso was just incredible in holding him off for so many laps!!  I literally jumped out of my seat when Fernando was able to pass Perez and then hold him off (just barely!) on the final run to the checkered flag.

Too bad they weren't racing for the lead!

I speculated way back when that Red Bull could run the table, and they almost have with the one exception that Ferrari won. Their cars have been dead reliable too, all season long, which has to contribute to their success this year as well.....

So with one race to go - the Hamster says they will probably dominate next season too, and maybe even 2025 as well. I hope not - and it does look at times like Ferrari or McLaren or maybe even Aston or the Mercs can challenge them. But I don't expect anyone to make any magical huge leaps forward - there already have been some pretty impressive improvements. Alfa Tauri has stepped up their game, Albon is able to get into the points for Williams frequently and about the only team still languishing in the basement is HAAS. They have shown the speed from time to time but their race pace is nowhere to be found.

But here we are at the end of the season and Red Bull still seems able to win with ease, and often by as much as 30 seconds on the field.

Las Vegas could be anyone's game tho, as no one has been on the circuit, it's a street race, it's at night and who knows what can happen! I'm looking forward to it...... :steeringwheel:

I saw this somewhere on the interwebs, it puts Verstappen's dominance into context.  Perez (currently 2nd) is closer to Logan Sargeant than he is to Verstappen!

Are you planning to stay up late Saturday night to watch the race?

I'm undecided, since Google will record it for me, but I don't have anything pressing on Sunday so I might.....it starts at midnight here I think?

One thing the race organizers didn't think about is that it gets cold at night in the desert in winter! They're expecting track temps around 40*F! Won't be any overheating issues, but getting the tires warm enough to work is a real problem. That alone could make this anyone's race. I'm pretty sure Vegas is the only place they could throw a race at midnight in winter and 120,000 people will still show up!

Still haven't heard if they're having the other race in the desert, or if Vegas will turn out to be the season ender. I know they like to do next year's tire testing after the AbuDabi race, so that could be interesting

I won't be staying up the watch the race.  Having a toddler means that sleeping late is not an option.

It being cold should help some of the teams that have high tire wear issues - looking at you Haas.

What do you meant about them cancelling the final race?

Because of what's going on in Israel - plus there have been demonstrations in Abu Dabi - lots of unrest in the area is what I'm hearing. They don't know if it would be safe to bring such a high profile bunch into the area....I mean, having a race in the middle of a war would be strange, and hard to justify.

Israel is over a thousand miles from Abu Dhabi. In context Budapest is around 500 miles from the Ukraine/Russia front line.

Whilst the protests might be a cause for concern, the Saudi GP  last year took place after a terrorist missile strike during FP1 on a nearby oil facility.

At this stage I would be surprised if they cancel it.

Vegas practice 1 did not go well, especially for Carlos Sainz and Ocon ........as sometimes happens on street circuits they don't understand the incredible amount of downforce these cars generate especially at higher speeds - the suction didn't just lift a manhole cover out of its hole - they're bolted down - but literally tore the support ring out of the asphalt. I haven't heard yet whether Sainz' car can be repaired in time for tonight's runs or not as it was torn up pretty bad. In-car video you can hear it hit and see the car lift up.....it was crunched but good......reports are that it damaged not only the floor but also the battery and engine itself and will be a real hit on the cost cap this late in the season to repair it.

So FP1 lasted all of about 10 minutes, and FP2 might not happen either as they have to ensure that none of the other drain covers can come off. If that's the case....qually should be really interesting as the only other team that got any laps in was HAAS.

I just read that neither driver will be able to run FP2 either, so they are definitely on the back foot when it comes to qually, with no real actual track time or set up time. It's been suggested that the FP3 time be extended to compensate.....to add insult to injury, Sainz is given a 10 place grid penalty for changing his "energy source (battery), even tho it wasn't a failure of the car - the track caused the problem.

Edit: FP2 did take place and was extended to 90 min

Edit2: it was not a manhole cover but a water valve cover, only about 6" in diameter

FP3 things were pretty much back to normal, the track improving as the session closed, and drivers becoming more used to the layout.

Today was qually, and a little later we'll see the race, by morning it will all be back to normal Vegas traffic.

LeClerc and Sainz topped the charts, but since Sainz will get a 10 spot penalty, it will be Verstappen along side him into the first turn. The Ferrari still has the one lap pace over the Red Bull, but we'll see if LeClerc can translate that into a win. Tire graining is an issue, especially on the rear, so I expect to see a lot of "drifting" around the track - some guys are better at it than others.

It's great to see both Williams in the top 10, Sargeant seems to have come to grips with his car and is running every bit as fast as Albon now.

The Big Macs had a terrible time of it, not getting out of Q1. The Hamster didn't make it out of Q2 but because of Sainz' demotion, he'll start 10th, while Russell will start 3rd. Kmag also had a good run, he will start 8th.

Overall I expect it to be a fun race, with lots of position changes, some banzai passes at the end of the long straight and lots of wild angles coming out of the corners as they try to get the power down on cold tires. I'm going to try and stay up for it, but I may not make it and may have to watch it on the "VCR" tomorrow.

I just hope LeClerc and Verstappen make it thru the first corner!

Underestimating the cold weather by having the Vegas race in late November reminds me of the original, provisional dates for the first Austin race. If I remember right it was to be in July. It could have been about 105°F had they done that.  I think they got enough feedback about Austin to realize how stupid that would've been. But apparently they didn't get that needed feedback about Vegas.

Well, while it might have had a hand in some of the spins and such, ultimately the cold weather had no real effect on the race - no more so than at any other track IMHO....but the track itself made for some really interesting battles!

I think overall the race went off really well, tho taking a Rolls to the Bellagio for the interviews and podium ceremony was a bit odd. I wonder if this will move to a different casino each year?

Checo has to be feeling a bit of deja vu only this time it was a red car instead of a green one that passed him on the last lap and held him off to finish 2nd ahead of him. Still, a Red Bull 1-2 in the driver's championship has to be a powerful instigation for them to keep him next season.

There are a lot of close points battles both in the drivers and the constructors championships - and a lot of money on the line in those finish places.

For example, it's possible that if he were to win in Abu Dhabi, LeClerc could go from 7th to 4th.....for that matter LeClerc, Norris, Alonso and Sainz are all close enough in the pts that a good or bad race could really affect their final standing.

So while both championships are already sewn up, there is still a lot to race for in the final round.

Once again, I thought Vegas turned out to be a good race, with lead changes and lots of different strategies. I thought it interesting that in the qually and prelims the announcers said that the hard tire wouldn't feature in the race, and yet it turned out to be the winning choice.

Sometimes I think I enjoyed watching the sphere as much as the race.

It's pretty cool!   :grin:

I'm still hearing rumblings about terrorist threats in UbbyDubby, threatening not only the race but synagogues, churches of all denominations, shopping malls, sports stadiums and all sorts of places where large crowds might gather.

F1 says "piffle" and they're going ahead with the race this weekend - period.

Still a lot to race for, especially between Merc and Ferrari to be #2, Big Mac and Aston going for the #4 slot.....as always, there is a lot of money involved to those who can step up. I personally would like to see Ferrari smack down the Mercs just this one more time, then all bets off for next season. There have been a number of places that could have gone to either team over the course of the season, I can't really say either team has performed well, tho they both have had good sections where they did. Right now it seems like Ferrari have a little better form and strategy, but I don't know if that's really true or if the other teams have just done worse allowing them to look better.

We'll know more tomorrow, but I expect a pretty good fight come race day.

Argh!  I am watching, but not listening to, the Abu Dhabi race.  Am I the only one whose DVR recorded the "F1 Kids" version of the race!?  It's got simplistic race graphics and unfortunately it's dumbed down with literal adolescents doing the race commentary.  What fresh hell is this!?

Was there a grownup version of the race also broadcast?

Just turned it on.....what the sam hill???? I've never seen this before, something they're trying out?  :017:

I don't think mine recorded an "adult" version.....I wonder what school of broadcasting has determined that the announcers must talk constantly with hardly a breath.....even the kids?

I also wonder what age group they're trying to appeal to with this broadcast?

ADNOC = Abu Dhabi National Oil Company, in case anyone was wondering......

MSC Cruises = MSC Cruises is a Swiss global cruise line based in Geneva, with operations offices in Naples, Genoa and Venice. It was founded in 1970 in Naples, Italy, as part of the Mediterranean Shipping Company. Wikipedia.

YAY! Found the "Adult" version on ESPN vs ESPNU?  U for Utes? As in - the two utes? 

Wow, well.....the winner was pretty easy to figure, but some interesting shenanigans going on in the last lap, but unfortunately for Ferrari it didn't finish out in their favor.

Still.....some really close finishes in the points after 23 races, and next year there could be 24 !

I see that the Abu Dhabi race will be rebroadcast at 7:30 this evening, (hopefully the adult version ), so I'll watch that. I only got about five laps in with the kiddos, and I decided to bail. Couldn't stand it.  I had turned it to mute, but I really did not enjoy watching the race that way.

If it turns out the 7:30 PM broadcast is the kiddos again I will just give up entirely on watching it and assume Max won. Again. 

It was a decent race, lots of different strategies, some worked some didn't.....lots of passes for position. Look for it on ESPN, the kid race was on ESPNU for me.....never heard of the "U" before.....

I ggogled "What is ESPNU?" and got this from Wikipedia:

"ESPNU is an American multinational digital cable and satellite sports television channel owned by ESPN Inc., a joint venture between The Walt Disney Company (which owns a controlling 80% stake) and the Hearst Communications (which owns the remaining 20%). The channel is primarily dedicated to coverage of college athletics, and is also used as an additional outlet for general ESPN programming. "

The Disney connection plus targeting college sports audiences would go a long way to explaining the "kids" flavor Bruce encountered.

They have been doing the "kids" option at a few races. 

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-and-sky-to-create-bespoke-f1-hungarian-gp-coverage-for-children/10476216/ (https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-and-sky-to-create-bespoke-f1-hungarian-gp-coverage-for-children/10476216/)

And they rolled it out across different geographies. Apparently was well received to get new audiences engaged.

Totally annoying that your DVR recorded the wrong one.  My virtual DVR did record both and I got to watch the adult version.

Quote from: MiniDave on November 26, 2023, 09:09:26 AMJust turned it on.....what the sam hill???? I've never seen this before, something they're trying out?  :017:

I don't think mine recorded an "adult" version.....I wonder what school of broadcasting has determined that the announcers must talk constantly with hardly a breath.....even the kids?

I also wonder what age group they're trying to appeal to with this broadcast?

ADNOC = Abu Dhabi National Oil Company, in case anyone was wondering......

MSC Cruises = MSC Cruises is a Swiss global cruise line based in Geneva, with operations offices in Naples, Genoa and Venice. It was founded in 1970 in Naples, Italy, as part of the Mediterranean Shipping Company. Wikipedia.

YAY! Found the "Adult" version on ESPN vs ESPNU?  U for Utes? As in - the two utes? 

F1 has been battling an aging audience, so they are trying to get more kids engaged to build the future generation fan base.