Restoration-Mini

Technical Forums => Maintenance and Modifications => Fuel Injection => Topic started by: tmsmini on April 24, 2020, 09:53:22 AM

Title: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on April 24, 2020, 09:53:22 AM
Another variant for EFI:
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on April 24, 2020, 10:45:16 AM
Wonder if there would be any advantage to using that instead of or in place of an SPi unit?

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on April 24, 2020, 10:51:08 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on April 24, 2020, 10:45:16 AM
Wonder if there would be any advantage to using that instead of or in place of an SPi unit?

One likely advantage would be availability of the required sensors.  Most of the sensors used by the factory SPI system are NLA and old enough to be starting to fail.  This Holley system is likely to be using currently available sensors.

The SPI system does use a throttle position sensor and stepper motor for choke.  So the equivalent on the Holley would be needed if trying to use it as a replacement for the factory SPI system.

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: jedduh01 on April 24, 2020, 10:53:16 AM
The Holley essentially IS an SPI Unit... the big problem with the actual mini SPI itself is the MEMS ( British ECU) has little to no bandwith for adjustments or tuning.  it runs off of MAP ( Manifold pressure) but doesnt have the means for BOOST or operating outside of its set parameters of the NA Mini car.

ClassicMiniDIY - is my bud= Cole.  - Charlotte NC
  He got his mini about 8 years ago as a Complete basket case ... He reached out as a young buck,  needing all the help.  I helped him get it sorted way back and now he's on his own journeys of Mini ownership!    Now modifications and power!

Hes well on his way here= he WAS building an engine test stand to hook this engine up = but this week we discussed the pro's and cons.. and yesterday he put the motor in the car, Is underway making all the in car connections... This thing MIGHT run next week!

Props to Cole.

In learning and watching Cole do this project it has shown tome the vibrant mini life STILL happening in the UK...    Cars are much later model but there are still alot of enthuists and providers offering excellent mods that we just simply dont see over here.  Instagram has opened my eyes to these providers... I even won a raffle for a double sprung clutch for my next build.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on April 24, 2020, 11:21:49 AM
I met Cole thru you at the event a couple of years ago. I could see that he did not have a background in auto mechanics right away, but he had a good attitude and wanted to learn, so as you say - props to him.

I'm still disappointed by all the mistakes he makes in his vids because there are a lot of people no more experienced or even less experienced who regard this info as fact......facts that are frequently wrong.

I see he took a little umbrage at people calling him out for mistakes at the beginning of this vid....I stopped doing that as I felt it was better to contact him directly instead of publicly.

I know it takes a lot of effort to do these vids and I'm pleased that he's continued with the effort - good for him!

Interesting about the charge cooler, they guys at Mad Cars (?) in Australia did that with their supercharger installation too... although their radiator was a lot smaller - and to me I doubted that it worked as they hoped it would due to the small size. still I suppose anything is better than nothing for keeping the charge cool, but like Dan does for his Turbo RX, seems like meth injection would be far more efficient.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on April 24, 2020, 11:34:14 AM
The point of my comment was I wondered if this could be a better setup than carb(s) even without the supercharger?

Prices vary considerably and of course you'd need an MPi tank and equivalent pump to make it a neat installation, although you could use an external pump and modify a standard tank for the return line. And of course you'd also need a manifold, hence my question about SPi - there must be a ton of SPi manifolds just lying about from cars that were converted back to carbs.

This seems like a pretty complete setup, it would be fairly easy to use a crank sensor and get rid of the dizzy too - but I wonder if the ECU mounted on the injection unit has the capability to adjust the timing curve or if you'd need a separate ECU or electronic ignition setup to do that.....need to read more about it.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on April 24, 2020, 11:53:17 AM
The factory SPI setup uses a "dummy" distributor - the timing is electronically controlled.

I do seem to recall the SPI distributor does retain some mechanical advance though.

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on April 24, 2020, 12:08:30 PM
Michael, do you still have the SPi manifold from the engine you converted?
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: jedduh01 on April 24, 2020, 12:12:38 PM
Yep = Holley is ' todays' plug and play fueling option = pretty fresh.
     Vmax ( the supercharger kit suppler) offers basic starter kits even using a HIF44 piped to the intake of the supercharger. Pretty crude:   A step up from there is a Weber for fuel .. and finally for the 'computer smart" fueling option is the Holley.  for the Holley what i have read is the O2 sensor installed is doing all the tuning legwork plain and simple. YES SPI tank = return fuel system all installed in this application.

Ignition is the other side I do question here.. Cole is using a basic electric distributor in this project as provided by Vmax.
In my turbo boost experience you should pull 1 degree of timing for every pound of boost added... I know cole was advised to run this starting at 10 TDC> which sounds retarded already... so interested to see how this goes.
   For this Mini application an Megajolt Programmable ignition is a common crank trigger wheel ignition for these unique applications.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on April 24, 2020, 12:19:49 PM
Well, most mini dizzys use about 24° of mechanical advance, add 10° initial that's 34° total advance - I doubt you'd ever need any more than that even with forced induction.

If Michael still has his SPi manifold, I was interested to see how this FI unit could be adapted to that manifold, for an easy, simple replacement for the SPi unit and ECU. Or to replace the carbs on a regular non boosted Mini motor.

I would consider investing my Stimulus check $$$ on one of these just for fun!
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on April 24, 2020, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on April 24, 2020, 12:08:30 PM
Michael, do you still have the SPi manifold from the engine you converted?

No, it is long gone.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on April 24, 2020, 01:46:49 PM
The SC system, the Holley Sniper and the SPi are all throttle body systems.

I believe that Vmax also offers an Emerald based system for the supercharger although this may been supplanted by the Holley.

The Holley appears to be a nice self contained system. It will be interesting to see how it deals with charge robbing in the supercharged environment.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on April 24, 2020, 01:50:03 PM
Interesting on this ad for Holley sponsored by Hagerty, one of the comments is this, "The point of EFI isn't more power, the point of EFI is better starting, better fuel economy, more accurate fuel distribution between cylinders, altitude compensation, fuel grade compensation, knock compensation and vastly improved reliability."

It generated alot of comments on how their Holley carbs work great...

Holley video
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on April 24, 2020, 05:31:04 PM
I wonder if it would also work using the intake manifold for the Weber 32/36 DGV downdraft carb sometimes used on Minis?

https://www.minimania.com/part/99003.808PMV/Classic-Austin-Mini-Weber-Intake-Manifold-For-The-Dgv-Carburetor-And-Lcb (https://www.minimania.com/part/99003.808PMV/Classic-Austin-Mini-Weber-Intake-Manifold-For-The-Dgv-Carburetor-And-Lcb)

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on April 24, 2020, 07:31:01 PM
Isn't that a progressive intake, where it runs on the small bore first then the second opens up under more throttle?
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on April 24, 2020, 07:50:26 PM
Certainly the quads work that way, but I don't know about this version. Were you talking about the Weber or the Holley?
I was looking for CFM and could not find it.

It seems that everyone with a 327 or 289 wants to put a giant carb on to get better performance. Those really big carbs may work well for the stroked and bored monsters, but I have found a smaller well tuned carb works pretty well. My son has an El Camino with a 327 in it, if I hit the lottery maybe I would pay for the conversion.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on April 25, 2020, 07:28:31 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on April 24, 2020, 07:31:01 PM
Isn't that a progressive intake, where it runs on the small bore first then the second opens up under more throttle?

The Weber 32/36 DGV is a progressive carb.

I was wondering if the manifold used by that carb (linked in earlier post) would work with the Holley EFI for mounting to an A-series engine.

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on April 25, 2020, 07:54:12 AM
I've not seen an SPi manifold without the attached fuel unit, but I'll bet it will work best since it's designed for the same operation. I'm confident the bolts won't line up of course, but any enterprising soul with a tig and some skills should be able to make a baseplate or adaptor or something that will let it fit.....
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on April 25, 2020, 01:13:34 PM
The SPi manifold is pretty unique IN the A series world as it has a coolant sensor in it. It might also duplicate another sensor that is bultin to the Sniper. The SPi MAP sensor is in the ECU
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on May 02, 2020, 01:19:55 PM
I finally finished watching more of the supercharger setup. It will be interesting to see how the Sniper deals with things.
If Stuart has been installing these, then I am sure it has a good baseline.

One of the issues I have with SC is the inconsistent support.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on May 06, 2020, 08:31:17 AM
I see where the facebook page or Youtube channel has an image of a familiar hand gesture indicating displeasure...
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on May 06, 2020, 09:14:30 AM
What are you referring to? I saw his vid where he dropped it in, but no displeasure other than almost "dropping" it in!  77.gif
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on May 06, 2020, 02:36:01 PM
I cannot find it again either.
The super charged engine was in the bay and he was flipping it off.

He has a number of venues where things are posted so I am not sure where it came from.

Found it
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on May 06, 2020, 02:50:59 PM
Wonder what the issue is? with the EFI or something else?
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on May 06, 2020, 02:55:30 PM
Not sure, it was on his Facebook Story(whatever that is).

I was looking for a new video, but have not found one.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: jedduh01 on May 07, 2020, 12:06:57 PM
hah.. ohh the interwebs.. post something and it really gets around...inside scoop.   Cole sent that to me before that hit Instagram. 
Some people want instant results.  plug it up  = slap it on and go.

  This so far hasn't been that... no matter what all these changes rack up to more changes. Last week he had it 'started' but it wouldn't run long. and a high idle.   This week more SC Take off ..  Check for intake leaks.. hes doubting the coil ignition signal.   Fuel line touched the belt providing a slice.... new fuel line on its way (braided now) of course.  Sort of typical project teething, just putting it out there for us all to see.  and just continual frustrations...

The finger picture was then followed to me if i would come take a look  help ., offer suggestions...I had to reply , hey bud   ... You're in a whole other ballgame from my experience but I would / could someday.

I dont know his diagnostics...  Is Fuel pressure happy?  Is the idle adjusted properly?  is the computer adjusted properly?   then ignition.. is it timed somewhere close to run right.. make adjustments does it help. All stuff im not diagnosing off site.

awaiting updteas.  He's borrowing one of my mini's for the local run we're doing tomorrow  4.gif
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on May 07, 2020, 12:36:26 PM
I think anytime you do something out of the ordinary, you are going to run into snags.
There are alot of interactions going on, each one can impact other components. Even with a simple system like the A series based injection systems, there are alot of places for something to not be quite right.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on May 07, 2020, 12:50:16 PM
Yeah, he's doing a lot of changes all together....got to sort them out one thing at a time.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on May 07, 2020, 05:22:00 PM
I am still messing with my "upgrade" after a number of years
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on July 01, 2020, 12:20:49 PM
I seem to have lost track of the status.
It looks like he has been waiting on Holley for some help.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 19, 2020, 09:02:39 AM
I understand that he has it running now? And says it works well?

Sure would like to see an update on this as I'm seriously looking at doing this on one of my cars - I'm looking at the single barrel unit tho - I think the 2bbl is way more than I need for a non supercharged car.

I've sent off to Holley for some info on the overall size, bore and stud spacing to see how I can adapt it to an SPi manifold or HIF side draft manifold, and to find out if it can be used sideways or has to be vertical. I'm thinking it will fit better if I can use it on the SPi intake.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on August 19, 2020, 10:02:02 AM
In the video where Cole modifies the EFI unit to fit the supercharger, he does mention that the unit is initially intended to be a down-draft style and for his application he is using it in side-draft style.  As such, I would think it can operate in either position.

Another intake option to consider is the intake for the Weber 32/36 down-draft kit for Minis.

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on August 19, 2020, 10:17:44 AM
Have you seen the thread on the Mini Forum where the guy in Australia is trying a modified throttle body on an SPI manifold?
I can't find the link on my phone at the moment

http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/343927-side-draughting-an-spi-throttle-body/ (http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/343927-side-draughting-an-spi-throttle-body/)

Actually he is using a modified SPi TB on a side draft manifold.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 19, 2020, 12:18:43 PM
I have not seen that.....seems like it would work just fine as long as the bores are right and so on....the attraction for me on the Holley is that it's all complete in one unit, no separate ECU to deal with and it's fully adjustable for mix and timing curve if you use the one built in instead of the dizzy. It will even control the vacuum advance....

Speaking of, the single bore Holley FI unit I was looking at is only a 1.5" bore......I would hate to go to the trouble of building this thing and lose HP, I asked what size the 2bbl is, if it's also 1.5" x 2 it might work better, at least on a built engine. For a 998 the single would be perfect I think.....not so sure on a built up 1275 or 1360 or something....even tho this carb was used on an engine twice the size of what I build. (170-200 cu in Ford 6 cyl)

Edit: the SPi throttle plate is only just over 1.5" diameter.....so little difference there. Interesting. This is just one thought as I already have an SPi intake to work with. For the 2bbl units I would have to either build a manifold or modify a Weber downdraft intake....or build a side draft style from scratch - I don't know if I'm up to that.....
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on August 19, 2020, 02:01:39 PM
Dave,

Which of the 1-barrel units were you looking at?

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on August 19, 2020, 02:30:13 PM
I am no expert but I am not sure you can compare the diameter of the FI system directly to the diameter of the carb system. Basically an HIF 44 is 1.75 inches.
SC offers both 45 mm and 50 mm TBs. It is not clear to me at what point you need the 50 mm TB. The Rover MEMS MPi system used a 48 MM TB and Burlen offered a 52 mm upgrade. I am not sure the MEMS 2J could effectively use the 52 mm version.

Certainly the ability of the system to flow air is limited by the diameter of the throttle, but the ability to use the air flow is dependent upon the other components in the system. I am just not sure how to know when the extra flow is needed.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 19, 2020, 02:44:52 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on August 19, 2020, 02:01:39 PM
Dave,

Which of the 1-barrel units were you looking at?

There is only the one - #550-552
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 19, 2020, 02:46:04 PM
Quote from: tmsmini on August 19, 2020, 02:30:13 PM
I am no expert but I am not sure you can compare the diameter of the FI system directly to the diameter of the carb system. Basically an HIF 44 is 1.5 inches.
SC offers both 45 mm and 50 mm TBs. It is not clear to me at what point you need the 50 mm TB. The Rover MEMS MPi system used a 48 MM TB and Burlen offered a 52 mm upgrade. I am not sure the MEMS 2J could effectively use the 52 mm version.

Certainly the ability of the system to flow air is limited by the diameter of the throttle, but the ability to use the air flow is dependent upon the other components in the system. I am just not sure how to know when the extra flow is needed.

Actually, the HIF38 is 1.5", the HIF44 is 1.75.....FWIW.  44mm/.0254 = 1.73" and change.  38mm/.0254 = 1.49" and change
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on August 19, 2020, 03:06:21 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on August 19, 2020, 02:46:04 PM
Actually, the HIF38 is 1.5", the HIF44 is 1.75.....FWIW.  44mm/.0254 = 1.73" and change.  38mm/.0254 = 1.49" and change

I knew this, but that is what I get for coming from  98 degree garage and trying to respond...
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 19, 2020, 03:23:53 PM
Ha! I know that feeling!  77.gif

And I agree, small valves, restricted ports and manifolds and the extra flow capability does nothing for you. Likewise, if you have a good free-flowing exhaust, larger valves, cleaned up ports, unshrouded valves and a good intake, then you can take advantage of the extra air and fuel - in fact if you don't go up some it will feel chocked, especially at higher rpms.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on August 19, 2020, 03:27:54 PM
This what I was trying to do, but I seem to have misplaced some bracket hardware
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 19, 2020, 03:32:42 PM
Building an engine test rig?

Looks good.....those HF dollies are handy, aren't they? I think I have 4 or 5 of them scattered around the shop with engines and transmissions on them
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on August 19, 2020, 03:46:20 PM
The engine test stand was built along time ago by Nick at Boot2Bonnet. Actually just the "dolly" to hold the subframe. I never finished the wiring off. I never really used it as I kept borrowing parts from the engine it held for other cars.
Now I have a fresh rebuild to put in it and will revisit the Micro/Mega Squirt.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on August 19, 2020, 05:37:55 PM
I have to admit it is a whole lot easier getting engine mount bolts in place without a car in the way
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on August 19, 2020, 06:49:45 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on August 19, 2020, 02:44:52 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on August 19, 2020, 02:01:39 PM
Dave,

Which of the 1-barrel units were you looking at?

There is only the one - #550-552

I asked because a search of "Holley Sniper EFI" turned up the factory page (linked below) that showed three single barrel units.  One of the other units also has large bore and small bore options.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/ (https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/)

I suspected the one you referenced was actually the one you were considering, but could not be sure.

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on August 19, 2020, 07:06:00 PM
So with my limited experience with 289 and 327 engines, most Holley and Edelbrock replacement carbs are defined in CFM.
I am not seeing CFM listed for the all the Sniper variations.

Any one hazard a guess as to the CFM on an HIF44?

This Sniper seems to be for six cylinders:
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/sniper_efi_autolite_1100_one_barrel/parts/550-552 (https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/sniper_efi_autolite_1100_one_barrel/parts/550-552)

but no equivalent CFM mentioned. Lists 144 cubic inch to 300 CI, that is quite a range.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 19, 2020, 07:57:23 PM
Michael, only the 550-552 is a single barrel, the other two are two barrel setups - the BBD and 2GC. The 550-552 is the one I'm investigating to use in place of a SPi setup, but on an SPi intake manifold
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: cstudep on August 20, 2020, 05:53:10 AM
This is an intriguing idea for sure. It looks like it would be plenty of "carb" for just about any mini engine, perhaps even too much maybe? The "self tuning" feature would make initial setup a lot easier I think but I wonder if you can then manually tweak things from there, or if you are stuck with the auto feature. Will have to do some more reading when I have more time.

Cost is not much more than a new single SU. Now you really have me thinking since I was already going away from the dual setup I have to a single carb. Fuel injection would be so nice.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: 94touring on August 20, 2020, 06:01:05 AM
Ideally you find a used spi or mpi tank for cheap, but you can always fab up a standard tank for fuel injection.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 20, 2020, 07:51:40 AM
Yeah, the kit includes a return line bulkhead fitting for the tank, so fabbing that up is no issue - I do wonder if the outlet fitting is big enough since it's only 1/4"....I think they suggest 5/16 out and 3/8 back.

You can manually tweak the fuel map (and ignition if you use it) to your hearts content - one tiny tweak at a time, or adjust the curve in broad strokes - you can do it in percentages of movement or one point at a time. The software seems pretty complete - and the touch screen comes with the kit. Once you have the map you want you can lock it in but the unit will still compensate for altitude and temperature - just like a modern FI system should!  ;D

The documentation seems pretty complete, and the unit use a "wizard" to get things started, where you input how many cylinders, size of the motor and so on - however you do have to convert to cu in from cc.

I'm going to order one, I figure I can do a basic set up on my test stand to learn how to use it, then maybe transfer it over to my green 89. I have a dyno run on that car for a baseline, I can take it up and do another run and see if it made any difference - plus on the dyno we can really fine tune the map.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on August 20, 2020, 08:10:50 AM
Alright, another flirting with the dark side...

I think alot of being successful is what your expectations are going into the project.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on August 20, 2020, 11:14:37 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on August 19, 2020, 07:57:23 PM
Michael, only the 550-552 is a single barrel, the other two are two barrel setups - the BBD and 2GC. The 550-552 is the one I'm investigating to use in place of a SPi setup, but on an SPi intake manifold

I had to take another look at the others to understand what you were indicating.  The topside pictures show what looks like only 1 barrel, but the underside shows the two barrel arrangement you were describing.

This conversion is definitely a tempting thought.  I'll keep watching this discussion to see how it turns out.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 20, 2020, 12:04:52 PM
I will have to build an adaptor to mount the FI unit to the SPi manifold, glad Dan is practicing his aluminum welding Fu, but I might take it to a guy I know here in town - he's an amazing tig'er   ;D

I think welding cast aluminum is a little different from welding aluminium plate, but I'm more used to welding steel so I'll take it to a pro. I do have to find a chunk of aluminum to carve out the baseplate and I'll need a new 1 1/2" holesaw blade. Or I might design it to simply bolt onto the studs in the manifold.....I won't be able to make that decision till the unit gets here - I'm waiting to get confirmation of the shipping date.

Other decisions to make - do I need the little heat plate in the bottom of the manifold? Do I set that up on a time relay to only heat when the engine is cold or something? Do I run the hot water thru the manifold - all the time or only when it's cold enough to run the car heater? Or not at all and just let the FI unit do the compensating? I'm also looking at the idea of tipping it sideways and mounting to a std Minispares HIF44 manifold.....

Parts are on order and should arrive in 2-3 weeks.

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on August 20, 2020, 01:18:09 PM
This is the manifold I had in mind:

https://www.minimania.com/part/99003.808PMV/Classic-Austin-Mini-Weber-Intake-Manifold-For-The-Dgv-Carburetor-And-Lcb (https://www.minimania.com/part/99003.808PMV/Classic-Austin-Mini-Weber-Intake-Manifold-For-The-Dgv-Carburetor-And-Lcb)

It looks like it might support use of the small 2-barrel units.

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 20, 2020, 03:56:03 PM
Yep, I'll bet I can find them for a whole lot less than $350 bux tho!

I didn't know if those were the same size hole or tapered, as the Weber carb has two different sized throttle plates....but before I go there I want to see if I can run the single barrel one on its side.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: cstudep on August 20, 2020, 04:07:41 PM
I will most definitely be following your progress on this Dave! It almost seems like it might be too easy, has to be a snag somewhere LOL
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on August 20, 2020, 04:33:13 PM
I used the Mini Mania link as I knew they usually had it on their website.  I also knew they would probably be rather expensive.

Here is the same manifold offered by a different vendor (also out of California) at a much better price.

https://www.piercemanifolds.com/MANIFOLD_FOR_MINI_SPTITE_948cc_1275cc_99003_808PM_p/99003.808pm.htm (https://www.piercemanifolds.com/MANIFOLD_FOR_MINI_SPTITE_948cc_1275cc_99003_808PM_p/99003.808pm.htm)

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: BruceK on August 20, 2020, 06:03:44 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on August 20, 2020, 04:33:13 PM
I used the Mini Mania link as I knew they usually had it on their website.  I also knew they would probably be rather expensive.

Here is the same manifold offered by a different vendor (also out of California) at a much better price.

https://www.piercemanifolds.com/MANIFOLD_FOR_MINI_SPTITE_948cc_1275cc_99003_808PM_p/99003.808pm.htm (https://www.piercemanifolds.com/MANIFOLD_FOR_MINI_SPTITE_948cc_1275cc_99003_808PM_p/99003.808pm.htm)


Wait.  Minimania is charging double the prices of another vendor for the same item?!   Shocked! I am shocked to find that.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 20, 2020, 06:23:23 PM
A US vendor too!

Pierce is who makes those manifolds now, and who sells the "Weber" carbs.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 20, 2020, 06:28:47 PM
Quote from: cstudep on August 20, 2020, 04:07:41 PM
I will most definitely be following your progress on this Dave! It almost seems like it might be too easy, has to be a snag somewhere LOL

I think the snag could be cost, time I buy all the parts for the 2bbl it will be close to $1500......plus make the adaptor to mount it to the sprite manifold.....

I'll start another thread on it when I get the parts and start building it. I have a test motor available to me unless Dan sells it! I'll set it up on that motor and make sure it all works, get the base maps set up and so on, plus I'll see if I can mount it sidedraft style too. Much easier to do this R&R on a test bed than in the car, but the actual mapping won't happen till I can drive it and put it under load.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on August 21, 2020, 06:35:24 AM
I like Dave's idea of exploring multiple mounting options: side-draft style (1-barrel) for on HIF/HS style manifolds and down-draft (1- or 2-barrel) for on the Webber manifold.

Thoughts on providing "patronage" to the R&D effort?

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 21, 2020, 07:51:56 AM
What do you mean by patronage? You want to contribute to the costs?

I have an SPi manifold for the downdraft set up and I have an HIF44 manifold for the sidedraft single barrel setup in stock right now - so all I need to do is make the adaptor plates and sort out the mounting

My plan is to sort it out on the test bed, then on my green Mini.....I may have a customer for one of the single barrel setups already assuming it works as we hope. If that deal goes thru OK I'll buy the 2bbl and run it on my green car to see the difference......

Those are my plans at the moment.....I appreciate the interest - we can talk about the patronage idea - call me or send a PM so we don't muck up this thread any more?
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: 94touring on August 21, 2020, 08:07:07 AM
I have one of these if it's something you want to experiment with.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 21, 2020, 08:10:51 AM
Perfect, I'll be happy to buy that from you....is it for a Mini or a Sprite, or are they the same? I've never heard of Nikki....
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: 94touring on August 21, 2020, 08:52:45 AM
It's for a mini.  The carb that came off is a 2 barrel thingy.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on August 21, 2020, 09:29:41 AM
Did they make the SU copy that came on early 240Z or was that someone else?
This had to be for Mazda:
1969 Development of a two-stage, four-barrel carburetor for rotary engines.

https://www.nikkinet.co.jp/english/corporate/history.php (https://www.nikkinet.co.jp/english/corporate/history.php)
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: 94touring on August 21, 2020, 09:40:52 AM
The Nikki carb for the manifold has a 1-1/4" and a 1" butterfly. The 1 inch opens first and about halfway open the larger side opens up.  Probably makes great low end torque.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on August 21, 2020, 10:01:50 AM
That is the Nikki equivalent to the Weber DGV!

I also found on the Pierce site that they have an adapter for the DGV to Jeep BBD.  The adapter seems to be about 1/2" thick and "should" potentially let the Sniper EFI for BBD mount to that manifold.

https://www.piercemanifolds.com/JEEP_ADAPTER_258_CID_FOR_DGEV_99004_551_p/99004.551.htm (https://www.piercemanifolds.com/JEEP_ADAPTER_258_CID_FOR_DGEV_99004_551_p/99004.551.htm)

Then it is a matter of whether that arrangement sits too high for under the Mini bonnet?





Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: cstudep on August 21, 2020, 10:06:54 AM
I also have one of those Nikki carbs and manifolds if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 21, 2020, 10:18:37 AM
That's funny that two people on this tiny forum have a carb and manifold for a carb I've never heard of!
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: cstudep on August 21, 2020, 06:16:51 PM
It is most certainly odd that is for sure.

Here is the proof just in case you don't believe me LOL

(https://i.ibb.co/34Yh0BT/20200821-195849.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/vjpRDW1/20200821-195826.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/7JRNNdv/20200821-195758.jpg)
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: BruceK on August 21, 2020, 07:29:15 PM
Quote from: tmsmini on August 21, 2020, 09:29:41 AM
Did they make the SU copy that came on early 240Z or was that someone else?


It was Hitachi that built licensed SU carbs for Datsun/Nissan models. 
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: 94touring on August 21, 2020, 08:57:14 PM
Wonder if rebuild kits are available for these Nikki carbs.   8.gif
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: BruceK on August 22, 2020, 03:20:09 AM
Those Nikki carbs and manifolds for Minis used to be sold by Mini City out of upstate Fairport, New York, which was the only US-based Mini parts supplier in the 1970s to early 1980s, before Seven Enterprises opened up in Newport News, Virgina in the late 1970s.  Later on, an upstart California business first called Don's Mini Mania began operations in the 1980s.

MiniCity still exists (barely), but for long while it was the go-to place for Mini parts.   In the old pre-Internet days, they produced a yellow-bound paper catalog with a cartoon logo that just about every Mini owner kept near their home landline phone to place orders.

http://www.minicityltd.com/

(http://www.minicityltd.com/pgGetPartsBook/books/miniopen2.gif)

(http://www.minicityltd.com/miniCityLogo/bouncing-mini.gif)


.

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: cstudep on August 22, 2020, 05:30:31 AM
Well I just happen to have one of their old catalogs sitting right here so I took a look. I do not ever remember seeing them in there (of course it's been forever since I looked through it) but sure enough they are.

(https://i.ibb.co/TLqzkJv/20200822-072303.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/bdywk4b/20200822-072242.jpg)
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: BruceK on August 22, 2020, 07:12:27 AM
Cool!  Nice time capsule.

I wonder if Mini City still has some old Nikki stuff hanging around?
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 22, 2020, 07:59:08 AM
I remember MiniCity, I bought parts from them in the 60's for my first Mini - I bought a set of cosmic wheels, new seat covers and some arches......I was able to get engine and transmission parts thru the local BaP Geon parts house.

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on August 22, 2020, 12:01:29 PM
I used to keep one of their catalogs for years, no idea what happened to it.

A couple of updates on the Mini Forum thread:
http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/343927-side-draughting-an-spi-throttle-body/page-3 (http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/343927-side-draughting-an-spi-throttle-body/page-3)

I wonder how the Sniper will handle the issue with the shared ports. I know about ten years ago there was an update to the Megasquirt software to allow for it. I am not sure what changes were required.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on August 22, 2020, 12:41:02 PM
Yeah, I read that this morning too.....

I don't think my setup will work any differently than a carb does.....in that the fuel is introduced before the throttle plate, just like on an SPi or a carb - which is why I'm going this route - to my mind it's an SPi unit in a different package - with a built-in modern ECU to run it and a potentially easy to use interface to tune it - we'll see!  77.gif
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on September 01, 2020, 10:32:55 AM
Further discussion on the Nikki carb setup.....

Bill sent me a Nikki manifold and measuring the bores it's 1 1/4", which is prefect for a 998, and adequate for up to about 80 hp on a 1275, tho I think 1 1/5" bores would be better for a big block engine.

So we need to measure the other two manifold setups and see if they're the same.

According to the Mini City catalog they had setups for everything from and 850 to a 1300....chances are they all used the same intake and carb, just different jets - but it would be worthwhile to check if you two wouldn't mind.

Does that logo look like Dunlop to you all?
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: cstudep on September 01, 2020, 02:08:21 PM
1 1/4" on mine as well. Like you say I would assume they had only one manifold and the only thing that changed was the jetting in the carb but you certainly never know.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on September 01, 2020, 02:24:23 PM
The carb jetting is what would have to be changed.

I had a couple Minis over the years that had the Weber DGV.  That carb usually came from Weber jetted for a 2.0L Ford engine.  The Weber conversion would be used on Triumphs (Spitfires, Heralds, GT6s), MGs (MGB and Midget/Sprite) among others.  Most people converting to the Weber DGV would have to rejet for their application.  Few would publish their results for the benefit of others.  I know from researching for trying to bring each of my Minis with the DGV into proper tune (both were way too rich - overjetted).  I still have a tuning kit and selection of jets in my stuff.  I went the "easier-at-the-time" route of converting back to a SU carb and manifold.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on September 01, 2020, 02:44:31 PM
The conclusion I'm coming to is that the Nikki manifold would be fine on a 998 running the single bbl EFI unit, but the 2bbl unit might be a bit much as the smaller bores would tend to restrict airflow - it could work, it just wouldn't be optimized.

I don't know if the weber downdraft manifold would be better - have larger runners or not - anyone have one of those they could measure?

I have no idea what kind of manifold it would take to make this into a side draft 2bbl, I suppose I could weld one up out of steel tubing but I'd have to figure out a balance tube too.....but if I buy a 2bbl unit later I'm definitely spending the extra $100 or so to buy the one that has software for boost as well as normally aspirated - cause that will be the next challenge!    4.gif
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on September 01, 2020, 08:24:01 PM
I would have thought the Nikki and Weber down draft manifold would perform about like twin HS2's?  Aren't those good for a stock-to-mild 1275?

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on September 01, 2020, 09:20:03 PM
Yes, that's what I said - a 1275 up to about 80 hp.  I think the single bbl will work great on a 998

It will take an adaptor to mate the 2bbl to the Nikki (and probably the weber) manifold, as the 1.5" throttle won't open in a 1.25" hole
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on September 02, 2020, 07:19:04 AM
Ah, I misunderstood your comments.  I thought you meant the diameter of the ports at the head were 1.25".  You meant the width of the opening at the carb mount was also 1.25".

I do not know if the adapter plate I referenced earlier would work for the Nikki carb then.  It may still work fine for the 2-barrel on a manifold for the Weber DGV.  The Weber is a 32/36mm which means the primary is 32mm (~1.26") and the secondary is 36mm (~1.42").



Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on September 02, 2020, 08:04:33 AM
I see one potential issue with using the Weber manifold, the direction of the bores under the carb mean the EFI unit would have to sit sideways compared to the Nikki. I'm sure I could come up with an adaptor to turn it back around, but I question how that would affect the efficiency and performance of the EFI. It might fit just fine sideways, all it would take is some kind of bracket for the throttle linkage or something. Won't know till I get the actual unit so I can look at it more carefully.....of course this is all about the 2bbl unit. The single will work on any manifold with the right adaptor.....
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on September 25, 2020, 10:22:03 AM
Was there ever a Mini DIY episode posted about the ongoing issues with the Sniper EFI?
I cannot seem to find one.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on September 25, 2020, 10:29:39 AM
I didn't either.....I'm going to talk to Cole this afternoon, I'll ask him. could be he got frustrated and decided not to publish those episodes....
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on October 01, 2020, 09:06:45 AM
Look forward to your efforts on this and i found this today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVcYXjP0QJM

I have not watched it yet.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on October 01, 2020, 09:35:25 AM
I watched it....he's installing a good fuel pressure regulator that will work with the Weber carb - I wasn't sure if he could find one that would take the pressure and flow of an MPi fuel pump down to the very small pressure a Weber uses, but it looks like he has a setup that will work.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on October 01, 2020, 02:05:23 PM
I was told that it was not possible to reliably bring down the pressure of the MPi pump to a carb level.
Do you know which regulator he is using? I can't make it out.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MiniDave on October 01, 2020, 02:37:37 PM
I think in the video he said "Aeromotive"?

I was surprised too, but he put a gauge on it and it's right where it should be.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on October 01, 2020, 02:55:18 PM
Good to know for future use. It says so right in the specs:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-13301?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAjw_NX7BRA1EiwA2dpg0tYyjwDmS18fxbUTFK3KDlsLchx01MSYk3_NNteTmysL21sFGFB8WRoClykQAvD_BwE

If I give up on my injection setup, it will make it easy to go back to an HIF 44
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on October 01, 2020, 02:57:53 PM
Use a different spring for the different rates:
Base pressure adjustable from 3 to 20 PSI with standard spring, (installed) or from 20 to 60 PSI with high-pressure spring (included). It offers the full flow and rock steady fuel pressure that only a dynamic, Aeromotive return style regulator provides.

https://aeromotiveinc.com/product/universal-bypass-regulator/

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: joakwin on July 29, 2022, 09:18:34 AM
So is the sniper efi not a good idea on a mini engine with Down draft manifold? 
I have a austin america 1275 engine, remove the carb and efi it or geo metro tbi


Im pretty sure the geo metro tbi could be adapted to work on a down draft manifold,
It would just be aluminum adapter plate, 1/2 inch or so thick and then the bolt patterns drilled out

I know they convert the geo metro dizzy to work with the 45d/59d mini dizzy for the other brit cars
I think it just needs the guts of a 4 banger geo dizzy and then the computer controls the dizzy like stock



Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: MPlayle on July 29, 2022, 12:02:09 PM
I recall at one point MiniDave was looking into doing the Holley Sniper EFI on a downdraft manifold for use on Minis in a non-turbo/non-supercharged (normally aspirated) configuration.  I think he was intending on using a standard Mini distributor - getting the Sniper EFI working in the most basic of configurations.

I do not recall where that thread/discussion was.

Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on July 29, 2022, 03:06:35 PM
Another option

https://store.classicminidiy.com/products/efi-throttle-body-hif44-replacement  (https://store.classicminidiy.com/products/efi-throttle-body-hif44-replacement)
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: joakwin on July 29, 2022, 03:26:20 PM
Seems like a really nice throttle body
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: 94touring on July 29, 2022, 03:52:44 PM
Only thing to consider is that throttle body would need the ecu also. Looking at the haltec 750 pictured you can add another 1500. 
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: 94touring on July 30, 2022, 11:23:28 AM
Quote from: tmsmini on July 29, 2022, 03:06:35 PM
Another option

https://store.classicminidiy.com/products/efi-throttle-body-hif44-replacement  (https://store.classicminidiy.com/products/efi-throttle-body-hif44-replacement)

Ok so I bought one!  There's some other less expensive ecu's that are an option.  Will post up details later.  Having him send a turbo and NA flange for it.
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on July 30, 2022, 11:48:52 AM
Alright another into the fray...
I was going to say I have an SC 50 mm TB, if anyone wants to experiment. It has been used, but in good shape.
I should make a list of ECUs as there are many more to choose from:
Emerald
Canems
Mega/Microsquirt
SC
Haltech

and?
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: 94touring on July 31, 2022, 11:58:24 AM
Microsquirt from what I've been reading might be the way I go. It's simple, cost a few hundred bucks, and I can just retain my current ignition setup. 
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: tmsmini on July 31, 2022, 12:40:14 PM
There is also tremendous support for Mega/Microsquirt on the forums and many independent vendors support their own iterations of the ECU.

That was the direction I was heading until someone told me the SC unit was a complete system and "bolt-on."
I still have a Microsquirt that I still plan to install on a test engine, but it has been a few years and I am not sure which version it is now.
Time to get a move on!
Title: Re: MINI DIY Supercharged w/Holley Sniper EFI
Post by: 94touring on July 31, 2022, 01:23:55 PM
I downloaded the hardware manual and another manual on the tuner studio software. About 355 pages to go through. Although most of it I won't be using.