Restoration-Mini

Technical Forums => Maintenance and Modifications => Topic started by: MPlayle on October 02, 2016, 01:26:28 PM

Title: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 02, 2016, 01:26:28 PM
This will be the thread for the maintenance and modifications I'm contemplating on the Moke.

Input will be appreciated for ultimately determining what gets done.

The basics:
- 850cc engine with single HS-2 carb
- twin leading shoe drums in front
- u-joint/yoke outputs on the differential
- (supposed to be the original engine and transmission - still has the engine tag)
- has had some non-factory (flat) panel replacement in the floors and at least the left pontoon (old flakey panel remnants inside the right side cubbies)
- new basic top (no side curtains)
- original metal seats (new seat covers)
- older 145/sr/10 tires on MiniLite style wheels, steel spare (with new cover)
- decent "daily driver" respray

What I am contemplating:
- 7.5" disk brakes for front, spacer drums in rear
- change final drive from original (3.76?) to 3.1 (gear set already came with it)
- new tires (same size)
- potential engine upgrade (here is where input is desired)
- potential custom top with side curtains
- potential roll bar/cage (really not certain about this)

The goal of the upgrades is to improve the driving for around town and some trips (nearby car shows and maybe some of MiniDave's drives).

The initial ideas regarding the engine:
I think it would be a bit different to build on the existing 850 - not many seem to do anything to 850's, usually they swap to 1275's.  Parts costs likely near the same as for doing the same work on a 1275, but will be comparing against the potential of a complete swap to a 1275.
- stage-2 kit (something like this: Minisport stage 2 kit (https://usa.minisport.com/stage-2-tuning-kit-998-1098-hs4-carb.html) if it fits an 850 block)
- carb upgrade as needed with stage-2 kit
- possible mild cam upgrade.
- convert to spin on oil filter
- possible cooling system upgrade

Thoughts?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 02, 2016, 02:13:20 PM
Thoughts?

It's always like this, isn't it? I bought a nice driver level Mini and I'm changing the entire suspension, instruments, brakes and a whole host of stuff!  :-[

I'd say it depends, if this is a car that you will do lots of club style drives or events in then by all means upgrade everything. But if this is a car that get's driven to the occasional show and shine and spends the rest of the time in the garage, then I'd do maintenance only and leave it alone.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 02, 2016, 02:34:40 PM
Dave,

The Moke is a "daily driver" level car - definitely not a "show or garage queen".  The area 'All British' car show I try to attend annually is in Austin - about 90 miles away.  I prefer to drive to it rather than tow.  I plan on frequent "pleasure" driving as weather permits.

I also hope to have it running well enough for meeting up for some of your drives.

I plan on doing the disk brake upgrade no matter what else, just for better braking even in "around town" driving.

The engine upgrades are targeted for the longer distance driving in potential highway traffic.

I don't have any of the "tuning" books for reference in comparing the stage-1 and stage-2 kits for the 998 as to whether they will fit an 850.

As I see it presently:
A) "Warm up" the 850 permits re-use of most of what is there (distributor, generator, tranny, etc.) and may not cost as much up front.
B) Engine swap to 1275 will also need carb, intake, exhaust, distributor, pretty much all engine ancillaries in addition to the basic 1275.  It will also need either matched to the existing tranny or a comparable one for the shifter arrangement.

It has been many years since I was up to date on what could be done on the small bore engines and the parts compatibility between them.  Thus the request for thoughts from others.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 02, 2016, 03:00:28 PM
A 998 complete with tranny would be a good swap, a guy on MM was advertising he had 4 or 5 to sell pretty cheap. Rod change is doable but requires some engineering - my friend did it on his, basically you just chop about a foot out of the rods to make it short enough - he did a 998 swap too. As Dan can tell you a 998 can be a pretty hot little motor without much spent on it.

Dan also has a complete 1100 he can sell you if he wants to part with it. It has a remote shifter, and I think you can convert those back to the "pudding stirrer"......I have no idea of the condition of that motor at this point.

Gearing would be an issue using the 850 box, you'd be turning 5K at 60 mph! plus too and also, those only have synchro's on the top 3 gears - don't know if that matters to you or not.

I think the 998 head will fit the 850, but there may be issues with combustion chamber size...let me do a little research on this. I spoke to Keith Calver about this very thing (850 hop up) a few months ago, let me dig up my notes from him and I'll post them up....but it seems to me by the time you did everything to make it work it cost as much as a good used 1275 conversion.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: John Gervais on October 02, 2016, 03:03:00 PM
Great moke!

850's can be fun, they had an 850 Sport model for the Australian (or was it New Zealand) market.  My mini originally had an 850 - I fitted a lightweight flywheel and pair of HS2 carbs in addition to a small-bore LCB and twin-box RC40.  It really woke up after that.  If I were to do it again, I'd use the C-AHT88 cylinder head and stick with the ordinary Maniflow freeflow exhaust manifold rather than the skinny LCB.

As the 850 doesn't use cam bearings, a 266 cam is probably as wild as you'd want to go.  I love small-bores...

(edit:  My old 850 was also born with an HS4 carb (and rod change gearbox), so an HS4 or HIF38 would certainly be better than the single HS2 and easier than twins.)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 02, 2016, 03:16:31 PM
At some point, the transmissions got a synchro first gear, I don't recall when.  I don't know what this one has.

I seem to recall that much of what can be done to the 998 can also be done to the 850.  If I swapped, I would need the ancillaries (as noted above).

I have a 3.1 final drive gear set that came with the Moke which would drop the rpm.

I did not know the 850 did not use cam bearings.  I had not put much consideration into a cam change.  A mild road cam would be the most I would be considering if so.

Dave,

Please do post what notes you may find from your research.  They would be most appreciated.

First up are the bits necessary for passing state inspection and getting it titled/registered in Texas, then the brakes.

From there ... that is what this thread is for.

Cheers,
Michael Playle

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: John Gervais on October 02, 2016, 03:34:50 PM
I've attached some .pdf's from the MK1 Performance website - the 948cc Sprite engine BMC ST build is particularly interesting, as an 850 is the short-stroke version; similar relationship as 1098 stroked down to 998.

But yes, small-bore bits are largely interchangeable - cylinder heads, etc... - just remember though that some early blocks used a short impeller water pump and that small-bores use a different radiator support bracket.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on October 02, 2016, 05:09:19 PM
And now, an opposing point of view:

Put new tires on it for safety purposes and get to know your new Moke it before changing things (I'm assuming it's drivable now). 

I say all of this because when I owned a Moke I thoroughly enjoyed driving it all over the Hill Country for years and it was a bone-stock 1966 model with the 850 and drum brakes.  So my advice is to drive it a bit, become familiar with it, and see how adequate you think the 850 is, as well as how the twin-leading shoe brakes perform.   At less than 1,200 lbs., Mokes are significantly lighter than regular Minis.  It takes less power make them go, and less brake force to stop them (twin-leading shoes are certainly not for race Minis, but if well-maintained, they are perfectly adequate for day-to-day driving).  Additionally, because you are sitting on a Moke rather than in it, the sensation of speed is greater, so you may not "need" to go faster.  By the way, the stock radiator dealt perfectly fine with the 850 and the Texas heat.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 02, 2016, 06:09:59 PM
Bruce,

Thanks for the advice.  Tires are one of the top of the list maintenance items.  It is basically driveable now - may need a little bit of tuning is all.

I guess I should state which items have priority:
- maintenance (wiper blades, etc.) for passing state safety inspection.
- tires
- brakes
- start enjoying

After the above few items, then I will start the considerations of whether and what to do about "long trip" stuff.  I'm gathering information first to plan ahead.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: John Gervais on October 02, 2016, 06:18:48 PM
Like any mini, I'm sure it'll evolve as time and funds allow.  The basics are pretty much always a 'given', and at least most replacement ancillaries will suit eventual upgrades. 

In any event, you've landed a really cool ride, and just in time for giving sleigh rides this winter.   77.gif
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 02, 2016, 06:53:40 PM
Not much snow in San Antonio Texas......   ;D
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on October 02, 2016, 07:58:49 PM
Wiper blades?  With an "s" Plural?  As in two?   Oooooohhh, you got yourself a fancy Moke.     :)


My Moke had just the single wiper, driven off the wiper motor itself - same Lucas motor as used on Land Rovers.

On a serious note, one important change I'd recommend right away is to fit some bigger mirrors on either side of the windshield frame.  The ones in the photo look very small.   I found some large truck door mirrors that, while not original, really did the trick.   Because with a Moke you really want to get a very good idea of what is behind you since there is a 100% certainty it will be bigger and faster than you.   
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 03, 2016, 05:50:12 AM
Yes, plural on the wipers - has the same single-speed motor and cable drive as the rest of the early Minis.

I haven't measured, but the mirrors seem to be about 3"x5" and slightly convex.  I will certainly take that bit of advice under serious consideration.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on October 03, 2016, 07:29:17 AM
Solid plans overall just have to take it for what you want to do with it..

I have a 66 - with a 998- on a Puddin Stir Box..  Round town= everywhere except the interstate its a great machine. 
    at mini events= I have a bit more grunt than the other 850 Minis for the action. 

In  my opinion, if contemplating an engine change = don't mess with the 850.  ( i have my doubts a 3.10 would still pull OK in the 850. (luggy))

Drive it as is now = like said = get to know it.   then build your next power plant... My 998 is pretty stock + i have another 998 for ' oversize and performance rebuild that will in time replace the current powerplant in mine. for a few more ponies.

I might have a line on a "core" 998 bottom end that needs full refurbishment if you're interested ( a customer of mine, he doesn't really want it.)

For sure=  Make it eat and breathe better on the 850 should benefit  but too = if you're investing in the 850 why waste the efforts when the next move is a larger displacement plant.

I also have Twin Drums and also agree they work great + fine + ok for everyday needs... If i had a big block = yes i would probably upgrade =but the Moke is a Momentum car = if you're using the brakes your doing it wrong....  Keep that momentum going!

Goodluck !



Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 03, 2016, 01:05:52 PM
Thanks for the various "thoughts".  The engine aspect is the "longer term" side.

I have plenty of time to decide whether to work up the 850 or swap to something else.  I have noted that there is very little being done or available for the 850 engines - most "small bore" references are all for the 998 and 1098.

Technically, funds are not a big concern right now; however, I am used to being on a tight budget and don't want to go overboard either.

The basics will be it for the short term.  I would like to keep the discussion going in order to plan ahead.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on October 03, 2016, 01:38:32 PM
Additional thoughts about bigger engines.  The primary reason for the large wealth of stuff for 998 engines over 850s is of course the fact that the 998 was the single most popular sized engine used for most of the Mini's production life.   

A lot of the popularity of the 998 was a function of good fuel consumption combined with UK and EU tax/insurance incentives to stay under 1 liter in size.  In that light, 850s are sort of oddballs, as are 1275s.     
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on October 10, 2016, 11:09:01 AM
After just spending 500+ Miles in the Tennessee mtns and curvy roads my 998 worked hard, but it for sure kept up with all the 1275's and bad drivers.   Was asked plenty of times what motor is in it, and what have i done cause my Moke was Boogyin!

It would pull up the hills better than the 850 Mokes that were there.  But the whole key was keeping momentum. this was all with 'spirited' drives.   The interstate was doable at 60-65  and even 70 . But to really cruze the interstate a windbrake was grat  only by following behind a full size camper trailer would let the moke cruze along. Half throttle and no wind!

Twin piston front drum brakes worked perfectly fine + never had an issue. 

as a whole = youll never win a speed race = but you suer will win the attenion of everyone else.

Enjoy the moke!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 10, 2016, 11:28:25 AM
You've pointed out the two major areas a 998 is a little lacking, up long hills and trying to do 75 on the freeway......

Dan's 998 runs great, the only time I could pull past him in Buzz is up a long hill where Buzz's 1310's extra torque really showed itself.

Looks like Mini 57 was a roaring success - I've been seeing photos on FB, which one is your Moke?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on October 10, 2016, 11:47:27 AM
Ha yeah, everyone was asking what I had under the hood too..
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 10, 2016, 12:53:06 PM
From past experiences with an 850 (Panel Van), the 850 is a bit more lacking in the same areas as the 998.  The 850 takes a bit more to get its momentum up and loses it a bit easier.

The hills around the San Antonio area vary a lot - Bruce will remember.  Most of the highways are all 75mph.  A lot of the hill country roads are also in the 65-75 mph category now.

Wanting to consider options for beefing up the engine some are in order to not get run over even on the back roads.  (Been there done that on a Royal Enfield cycle with sidecar.)

PS> I know I still owe some fresh pictures - haven't even gotten out to clean it up since it got delivered.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on October 10, 2016, 01:23:38 PM
My Moke - After each trip and thrashing i just enjoy it more and more...

Please note the Dixie Plate = serving as a distributor water diversion piece that worked wonders for a VERY wet day.
   (also bagged the distributor)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 10, 2016, 01:39:47 PM
Your top doesn't act like a "drag chute"?

Some years ago, I had a yellow Aussie Moke (1981 - last year from there) with their standard top (included side curtains).  The top had the fixed rear widow (could not be rolled up) and it would act as a "drag chute" in higher head winds and kill most of the Moke's momentum.

The current Moke has a new top very similar to yours.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 10, 2016, 03:27:06 PM
My brother in England said they used to cut the finger tips out of latex gloves and slip them over the cap and wires to keep water out of the dizzy.

I think Willie B used a small bucket over his on his marathon trip to the northwest for MMW......didn't do a thing for keeping it out of his gas tank tho...... ::) ;D
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 14, 2016, 08:01:48 PM
I had to replace the wiper arms and blades to be sure it would pass Texas inspection.  I also replaced the turn signal/hi-lo beam column switch as it kept dropping forward and keeping the hi-beams on and the horn portion had been bypassed for an aftermarket horn switch mounted on the column shroud.

With that all buttoned up, I actually got the Moke out on the road briefly today.  I took it out to a car wash and cleaned off all the travel grime and then down to get its Texas state inspection.

Top end it does not have, but was a joy to drive.  Now to get the remainder of the NY paperwork in order to get the Texas title and registration.

I will try to pull it out of the garage tomorrow and get some fresh pictures to post.

Next up on the "tinkering" is getting the new top situated.  All of the fasteners are in place on the top already and they match up to the studs on the body (rear rail and windshield rail).  I need to replace the side snaps on the frame for the top to attach to and attach the guide straps to the frame.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on October 14, 2016, 08:38:00 PM
Michael, thanks for the update.  Sounds like it is going well. 

Since you mentioned the top, here's how I remember erecting the top on the '66 Moke I used to own:

Assuming you have the standard top and frame as fitted to English Mokes, you 1) make sure the rear snaps are fastened and pull the top material up over the "interior", but don't engage the over-center bows yet (the ones above the rear wheels), because you must  2) snap the top to the 11 fasteners across the top of the windshield frame, and only once those are secure, you 3) gently pull the over-center bows into position and lock them which will pull the top taught, then you 4) fasten any other side snaps. 

You'll never get the windshield snaps in place if you lock the over-center bows in place first.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 14, 2016, 08:54:14 PM
Bruce,

The new top is the UK Moke style.  The frame appears to be the original style as well.

The top came with two webbing straps that seem to be intended to be attached to the frame bows to hold them in place.  The ends of the straps are punched for going over a set of the studs at each end.  There is a slide buckle on one end of each strap as well for tightening the webbing once in place.  The top has reinforcements where the screws holding the straps to the bows should be.

There are three frame bows.  The front two are joined in a 'Y' and have no locking mechanism.  The rear-most bow has a hinge (with lock ring) in the middle of each upright.

The first challenge is getting the bows in position for marking the webbing straps for where they need attached to the frame bows and attaching them.  With the webbing straps attached to the frame, the raising method you described makes good sense.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 15, 2016, 09:10:12 AM
Some photos "as promised".

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2277)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2278)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2280)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2282)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2284)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2285)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2286)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2287)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2288)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2289)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 15, 2016, 09:55:52 AM
Wow! That looks great! You are going to have so much fun with that......

You mentioned a while back about a drive in the hill country, I'd love to do that at some point...I hear the roads are perfect sports car (read:Mini) roads.....
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 15, 2016, 10:54:14 AM
The Texas Hill Country roads are indeed fun Mini roads.

I used to do a "Spring Drive" for MOT (Mini Owners of Texas) in different areas of the hill country.  (Bruce knows MOT - he helped found it!)  I still have all of my drive notes and route sheets from each drive.

Do you have an idea of when your spring break might be for considering?

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on October 15, 2016, 11:08:38 AM
Looks like you got yourself a great Moke there, Michael!    Nice to see it has stayed pretty much stock over the past 50 years. 

Quote from: MPlayle on October 14, 2016, 08:54:14 PM
Bruce,

The new top is the UK Moke style.  The frame appears to be the original style as well.

The top came with two webbing straps that seem to be intended to be attached to the frame bows to hold them in place.  The ends of the straps are punched for going over a set of the studs at each end.  There is a slide buckle on one end of each strap as well for tightening the webbing once in place.  The top has reinforcements where the screws holding the straps to the bows should be.

There are three frame bows.  The front two are joined in a 'Y' and have no locking mechanism.  The rear-most bow has a hinge (with lock ring) in the middle of each upright.

The first challenge is getting the bows in position for marking the webbing straps for where they need attached to the frame bows and attaching them.  With the webbing straps attached to the frame, the raising method you described makes good sense.

Yeah, I forgot about the straps and such - it's been 20 years since I had my Moke, so some of the details are fuzzy in my memory.    But I haven't forgotten how much fun they are to own. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 15, 2016, 11:14:32 AM
It is mostly stock.  It still has the original 850 engine and "magic wand" shifter.

It has had panel replacement over the years - replacements were done with flat steel rather than the correct panels, but still decent enough as a "daily driver" level.  It does not compare with the Mokes folks on the forum here have recently restored.

It has character and I like it so far.

I will be adding a windshield mounted rear view mirror and replacing the tiny side mirrors soon.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 15, 2016, 11:25:50 AM
Spring break is March 13-19, is that the rainy season there or is it dry and cool? This year you had rain 13 days out of the month, mostly right in the middle.....is that the norm?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jeff10049 on October 15, 2016, 12:19:43 PM
Nice I like it,

If it helps you decide anything when I restored my 60 I wanted to keep mostly like the factory made it. So I kept the 850 and did a mild cam as said above they don't have cam bearings so aggressive lifts are probably not a good idea. It has stock air intake, carb, and exhaust. It pulls fine and goes over most hills in 4th gear at 60 mph. I also live at about 4,800 elevation so I figure it's running great.
It has the early low 3.76 I think gears so about 60mph is as fast as you really want to go its happier at 55. I feel like the engine could pull a taller gear like 3.2 just fine I'm sure you'd have to down shift for the hills but it would cruise better. And with intake, carb, and exhaust to better take advantage of the cam it might really surprise me for an 850 I'll never do that to this car but after going through an 850 they run pretty well. I think most of them are probably about shot that are in cars. I have no idea if its worth it to fix a 850 up unless you want numbers matching all original like me.

On the brakes I replaced everything new with the exception of rebuilding the early bean can. they are single leading and work really well, tried some repeated stops from 60mph and you can still lock them up. I don't think they'd be any good on a race track but for driving they work fine they, do require staying on top of maintenance and regular adjusting.
So your twin leading a step above mine should be great for a DD moke probably just need some attenition.


That's the last of the early transmission so should be what's called B gear internals and is not hard to find parts for and rebuild if needed.

Looking forward to watching your progress.

Jeff

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 15, 2016, 01:45:37 PM
Dave,

This year was a bit abnormal as it was a wetter than usual spring.  March can vary quite a bit here.  Some are wet, some are dry.

I'll "pm" you later about some ideas and information on the approach you've used for your drives versus the ones I've done.  Most of the ones I've done were just a single day of driving (arrive Friday, drive Saturday, return home Sunday sort of thing).

Jeff,

Mine is nowhere near a "restored" Moke, more a "survivor-and-driver".  The pictures don't show some of the flaws in the replacement panel work.  For the near term, I plan on keeping it about "as-is".  I have ordered parts to go ahead with the brake upgrade to 7.5" disks.  Also ordered some new tires and a few maintenance things.  I am not considering a "numbers matching" restoration.

I have gathered a bit more information on what may still be possible for modifying the 850 versus replacing with a bigger engine.

Summary of that so far:
A) 850 mods:
Small valve 998 head (with standard rockers) would work as a "stage-2" item; mild cam such as 266 (as you mention) if rebuilding the engine; remainder of "stage-2" for 998 (HS-4 carb on free flow intake & exhaust); would not be able to pull a 3.1 final drive - too tall; might be able to go with a 3.44.
B) Engine swap:
Recommended going to mild street 1275 with 3.44 final in a 4-synchro box modified to use the "magic wand" shifter.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 27, 2016, 08:08:17 PM
I haven't done much on the Moke yet.  I did get some larger side mirrors and a center rear view mirror.  I have the mirrors installed.

I also ordered a small "truck box" to make a rear cargo box.  I have a small modification to make to add a lock to it (came with a padlock hasp that would not be usable).  Then It will get mounted behind the back seats (tomorrow's project).

I will be taking it on its first outing Saturday to an "All British" show in Boerne.  Since I have not yet done the support straps for the top, I will be going to the show "topless".

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 11, 2016, 04:20:55 PM
An overdue update:

The Moke took 2nd place in class (although there were only 3 classic Minis present).

I now have the top in place.  Not the best fitting, but not too bad.  See pictures below.

I have also begun collecting parts for some of the intended upgrades: assembled front disk brake set, spacers & studs for the rear, various bushings, seat belts, new tires, different muffler, 998 head and HS4 carb, adjustable suspension bits for the front and rear.  I've also been investigating a replacement body to solve the "flat steel" panel replacement issues.  (See photos in my "Moke body issues" album in the forum's 'Media' section.)

Still waiting on the NY paperwork to get cleared up, then the "fun" begins.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2333)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2334)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2335)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2336)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on November 11, 2016, 04:30:21 PM
Hmmm....I see what you mean about the body issues, still it looks so good from the outside, are they structural issues or just that they bother you when you think about them?

I've had to work hard not to try and make this Racing Green car "perfect", limiting myself to mechanical issues and upgrades and ignoring the body blemishes (of which there are plenty - but I can't see any of them when I'm driving!)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 11, 2016, 05:18:46 PM
It is a little of both - aesthetics and structure.  In general, the flat panel look is no big deal to me.  However, the long-term structure is more important - I kind of want to keep this one a bit longer.

Some of the patches are over the top of the rusted out old panels (especially the inside of the right side cubbies).  Some of the flat steel floor patches are also starting to show the beginning of more rust issues.  The flat patches blanked off some factory mounting points - one of the steering rack u-bolts is partially covered over (driver's side lower one), the rear tails of the subframe are not bolted to anything - their mounting points were lost to flat steel panels, the factory seatbelt locations are gone.

The consideration of a replacement shell from M-Parts in the UK is to set a lot of those issues right.  A whole fresh shell would be much easier (and probably cheaper) than replacing just the various panels.

The current shell is reasonably solid.  I would keep it intact as the platform for the other mechanical upgrades until late spring next year (lead time for a new shell).  That will let me have the mechanical upgrades sorted for the Spring Drive before undertaking a swap of body shells.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: John Gervais on November 11, 2016, 05:41:22 PM
Wow, I would have never guessed by looking at it as it sits right now.  Still think it looks pretty sharp, if not possibly too clean...
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on November 12, 2016, 07:50:08 AM
Quote from: John Gervais on November 11, 2016, 05:41:22 PM
Wow, I would have never guessed by looking at it as it sits right now.  Still think it looks pretty sharp, if not possibly too clean...

Yeah, my thoughts too.   I was getting all nostalgic about my old Moke just looking at it.  A new body seems like a drastic step.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 12, 2016, 08:05:30 AM
Don't get me wrong, it is quite solid as it is and does look nice.  I could easily just enjoy it as it is for quite some time.  The new body shell approach is thinking for the long term.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on November 12, 2016, 09:12:17 AM
To shell, or not to shell.......that is the question!   ;D

Would you get your investment back if you re-shelled it?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 12, 2016, 09:43:58 AM
With the way most Moke prices have been going lately, I would come pretty close to getting my investment back if not over.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on November 12, 2016, 10:52:48 AM
But your labor is "free"?

Would that include all the paintwork and new parts, since you won't want to put tired old parts like suspension back on a bright shiny new shell....wiring etc?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 12, 2016, 11:23:46 AM
Yes, my labor would be "free".

A rough estimate of new shell and the other refurb costs (many parts already purchased and the remaining estimated) puts the new-shell-refurb at about $28K to $30K (including original purchase).

Comparing the current prices of nicely finished Mokes (especially UK ones - going for $26K+) puts it still under question.

There will come a time when the current body patches are going to have to be redone.  Replacing individual panels (floors, panniers/pontoons, etc.) will be more involved.  I figure it as planning ahead and attempting to take advantage of a decent exchange rate.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 12, 2016, 11:33:23 AM
If you need it painted send it my way! 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 12, 2016, 12:16:45 PM
Dan,

That thought had also crossed my mind.

77.gif
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 05, 2016, 01:55:58 PM
The paperwork for my Moke is finally in San Antonio.  I missed the delivery today and have to pick it up at the post office tomorrow.  Hopefully, it is correct and I can get the title and registration done and move forward with plans for the Moke.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 06, 2016, 05:14:16 PM
Paperwork submitted through the tax office today.  They said everything looks okay, gave me the temporary tag while the "Classic" plates are printed (should arrive in about a week) and said the title should arrive in about 2 weeks.

Now I can move forward with plans for the Moke.

Time to decide whether to just "liven up" the existing 850 or work out an engine upgrade of some sort (998 or 1275).  The trick is going to be keeping the "magic wand" shifter.

I will also be ordering a new body shell to solve the issues from past flat-steel body repairs that are aging poorly.

I'll post the current ideas and see what folks have to say here in the next day or two.  Then it will be the challenge to stick with a plan and not get distracted.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on December 06, 2016, 06:58:04 PM
Then it will be the challenge to stick with a plan and not get distracted.

77.gif
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Willie_B on December 06, 2016, 07:17:05 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on December 06, 2016, 05:14:16 PM

I will also be ordering a new body shell to solve the issues from past flat-steel body repairs that are aging poorly.
Who are you ordering the shell from/thru? May be the only way to get the moke I have back on the road.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 06, 2016, 10:21:22 PM
This is the website for the outfit in the UK I have been emailing about the shell:

http://www.m-parts.co.uk (http://www.m-parts.co.uk)

I have ordered some small parts from them as well.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 07, 2016, 11:23:08 PM
Okay, time to recap the ideas under consideration as the "short term" and "long term" plans for the Moke.

Background info:
The 850 is the original engine per the heritage certificate and the engine tag.  I am not setting out to have this be a "factory perfect" restoration.  I want it to be a nice, solid, driver with minor personal touches (the truck box for extra locking storage, some extra gauges).  The new shell is to fix past repairs that were made with flat sheet steel which are showing signs of rusting again.  I have been trying to keep from going overboard on the expenses as well, knowing the body shell and paint will be a major cost.


The original approach I had in mind:
a) Perform some mechanical enhancements over the winter and get them sorted before the "Spring Drive", keeping the current body shell essentially "as-is" with only minor additions (seat belts, truck box).
b) Order a new body shell to arrive in the spring (after the drive), spend spring and summer refurbishing the running gear and swapping into the new shell, making any further body related enhancements desired (possible roll bar, custom top, etc.)

This is still the basic plan.  The content of step 'a' has been in slight flux and the extent of step 'b' is still being determined.

Original plans for 'a' were:
1) To "liven up" the existing 850 (install an unleaded 998 head with the rocker gear from the 850, new HS-4 carb on factory 998 intake/exhaust manifold), leave the transmission "as-is".
2) Upgrade the front brakes to 7.5" disks and add spacers to the rear as needed.
3) Possible additional suspension upgrades: fully adjustable front (control rods & lower arms), adjustable brackets for the rear, new rubber cones and knuckles (possibly also adding hi-los).

I already ordered (and received) most of the parts for #1, 2 & 3 (Head, carb/manifold, gasket set, full disk kit - already assembled, rear spacer kit, brake lines and washers, spin on filter kit, tappet cover gaskets and bolt seals, throttle and choke cables, adjustable front lower arms + shafts + bushings, adjustable control rods + bushings, and adjustable rear suspension brackets).

I also ordered a new wiring harness for going into the new shell.

The "distraction" dilemma:
Where I keep getting "distracted" is whether to stay with #1 or upgrade the engine to a full 998 (or bigger)?  And if I upgrade, do I stay with the existing transmission (with its 3.76 final drive) or do I also go with upgrading the transmission to 4-synchro and install the 3.1 final drive that was sent with the Moke?

Will the 998 from Bryans 74 drop onto my existing transmission without clearance issues?  I could use my existing new head/carb/intake to refurb his engine (ensuring it being unleaded fuel ready), but then I would have the 850 block and later transmission left over.

Should I stick with the original plan of enhancing the 850?  Should I do just the minimal work between now and when the new shell arrives (enhance just the engine and save everything else for when apart for the swap to the new shell)?  Should I do as much of the engine and suspension work I can beforehand?

I guess I am calling for "help" as I've lost focus while waiting for New York DMV to process the seller's paperwork to make it "transferable" so I could then submit it for getting the Texas title and registration.  Now that I've submitted the paperwork for the Texas title/registration, it is time to regain focus and begin enjoying and working on it.

What is some advice regarding all of the questions above?  Please help me regain proper focus.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on December 08, 2016, 08:11:08 AM
If it's a "driver", then keeping the original engine in it is a moot point - you're after a vehicle that's fun and reliable to drive. to that end getting some more power and a smoother shifting fully synchro'd transmission seems like a no brainer to me.

If you decide later that it's worth more with the original motor/trans you still have it and can sell it with the car.

If you want to keep the magic wand transmission sending it to Guessworks to be rebuilt with later A+ gears seems like a great investment...4 synchros, quieter gears (don't know how much value this is in a Moke  ;D ) and bettter ratios to go along with the later 998 motor. I don't think an 850 will pull a 3:1 final drive very well, Guessworks puts a 3:44 in their rebuilds unless it's a big block motor. You have to think of where and how you'll be driving this car - it won't be on endless highway runs, will it? If it were mine and I wanted to go to an event with it far away, I would tow it.

Going from 33 (or less) hp (850)0 to 40 or more (998) also seems worthwhile.....the advantage of the 998 is that it looks like an 850, so the car retains it's original look but runs better. OTOH, only Mini geeks will be able to tell the difference between that and a 1275. So if going from 33 to 40+ HP, is good, going to 55+ (1275) would be even better! The problem there is finding a good one to build/buy and retaining the magic wand gearshift you want.

(I have a 1300 with remote gearbox that I can sell (Hmmm, you buy it, I rebuild t for you and bring it with me on the spring run?) , but I wonder if it isn't less expensive to buy one already done with the new gearbox straight from 7 Ent - then just drop it in? Of course then you lose the magic wand.......wonder if 7ent would just sell a rebuilt 1275 engine and save you enough to get the trans from Guessworks?)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on December 08, 2016, 09:22:55 AM
Reads to me like your'e looking down a deep rabbit hole....of decisions and choices.
 
Body = Moke panels are easy to buy + weld + fit and finish... you just will ne a shop that wants to work with it.

Getting a whole shell== people talk about it = but ive never seen one actually floated across the ocean. Please do us all a favor and get a full quote.. Brexit is helping the purchase cost for sure.  but you also will have to consider the Freight + deliery to texas brokerage  port  tranport fees  etc. 

  I really doubt Mparts HAS shells on the shelf ready to ship = I BET the are built to order.. find out the details for sure.

Taking a working one off the road == that too can be a long road without a moke!!! think hard!



As you now have driven and used in as is condition and you now  know you want to upgrade.
850 on drums = no problem. slow every way.

  998 on drums = STILL no problem... but disks are 'better"

       I guess... Ive never outdone my drums because in SPIRITIED DRIVES with the small motors the Moke is a momentum car... use the brakes your loosing speed. Lack of horsepower and engine power you need to keep that momentum up.
   My 998 can do the same work as a 1275 .. just a LITTLE less grunt up the mountains = Hills=  no problem

either way = you'll never win a race without a vtec.  Little wheels and small tires keeps it fun!  Just like a gocart.

Either direction you take=  we will be watching!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 08, 2016, 10:27:24 AM
As for the new shell: I have already gotten a full quote.  The lead time is about 16 weeks (they build them to order), air freight to San Antonio, Texas was 1175 UKP - about $1500 USD at today's conversion rate, 6000 UKP for the shell (about $7550 USD).  Freight charges subject to change as the shipping quote is only good for 30 days.

Yes, I am looking at the proverbial "rabbit hole" and trying not to fall too far in.

I would not be putting the 3.1 final with the 850 - for the reasons stated.  That final would be for with at least a 998.  If staying with the 850, I would stay with the current, stock final which I believe is a 3.76.

As stated, I already have the parts to do the brake upgrade and "liven up" the 850 and most of the parts to upgrade the suspension.

It is deciding whether to go with engine change instead of "liven up" the 850.  MOre research to be done.

I'm beginning to consider gathering remaining parts as needed/desired and waiting until I have the new shell to do all the work as a single big project instead of in bits-n-pieces.

I'll be making the shell arrangements in the next couple of days regardless.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on December 08, 2016, 11:18:31 AM
So $9K delivered to Houston, then you have to go get it from there? Plus taxes, duty and entrance fees and whatever else they come up with?

I like the idea of doing the job in sub assemblies, then once it's all painted and wired up just bolt it all in and drive. I even like the idea of doing the engine now - whichever way you decide to go - so that part is done and proven, that way little chance of having to pull it back out of the freshly painted shell.

Will you prep/paint the shell or have someone do it for you?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 08, 2016, 02:08:00 PM
The quote was for air freight directly to San Antonio, not Houston.  Also the quote was for residential delivery at my current apartment.  As it would be just a shell, there would be minimal duty/taxes on it - considered as "parts".  I had already checked that out when I was considering ordering an Anderson Cub (Moke replica).

I usually like to do the job in sub assemblies as well for much the same reason.  Also, because I have usually been on an even tighter budget and could only order the parts for one step at a time versus gathering for the whole project.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on December 08, 2016, 04:31:13 PM
Since you asked for opinions, here's some of mine.  Michael, please ignore as you see fit. :)

To me, a new Moke bodyshell seems like an extreme solution (both in expense, and in execution) to some problems that likely could be remedied much more easily by a skilled bodyman using some new panels and welding to fix the existing body faults.  With so many flat surfaces and no compound curves, the Moke body must be the single easiest vehicle ever made to do bodywork on.   Perhaps getting a quote first for refurbishing your existing bodyshell back to how it came from the factory would be helpful in making your decision before committing to an expensive new Moke bodyshell?  Plus, down the road I think the car will be worth more if it retains the original body.  And no way could it cost anywhere near the $9K for a new body.

I think an upgrade to a 998 is a good idea. The Moke is so perfectly un-aerodynamic with the flat front and wind-catching front fenders, that any extra power is helpful just to push it through the air, and/or useful at lower speeds in defensive driving situations. 

Regarding a change to the final drive, I don't think it makes much of a difference.   Getting back the issues of pushing a Moke through the air, the driver and passengers really get beat up by all the air buffeting at highway speeds.    The flat windshield and open cockpit mean it's unlike any other vehicle IMO, (and I've owned a bunch of convertibles and motorcycles to compare against a Moke) - there is no gentle, constant breeze, instead at high speeds it is a series of big wind buffets, so traveling at highway speeds gets extremely tiring and annoying in quick order.   What I'm saying is you might not drive it often at more than, say 55 mph, so keeping the current final drive may make it slightly quicker pulling away from a stop - not a bad thing in modern traffic.

Regarding upgrades to the suspension, my suggestion is to become familiar with the stock suspension first.  Since center of gravity is lower in a Moke than a regular Mini, and the driver is sitting on the vehicle rather than in it like with a regular Mini, it already feels like it is cornering on rails and there is a good sense of personal vulnerability when cornering aggressively.  In other words, I typically found my nerve gave out before the stock handling gave up.

One final thing you may want to consider is to fit the Oz-type side windshield pieces found on later Mokes.  I understand they really tackle the buffeting issue.  Yeah, it wouldn't be true to a British Moke style, but sometimes practicality wins out. 

Whatever you decide to do, I'm sure you're going to have a great Moke experience.  I often miss my Moke.




Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 08, 2016, 07:37:43 PM
Hi Bruce,

I actually do listen to other folks and consider what they are saying, so your opinions are appreciated.

As for the current body: both pontoons and all of the floors have been replaced with flat steel - sometimes covering flaking remnants of the original floors.  The welds holding the replacement floors in place are far from clean.  Some are "patches on patches" type approach and several places the patches are showing significant signs of further rusting.  A lot of the factory captive bolt locations have been "lost" - all of the factory seatbelt mounts are no longer present.  The front floor patches cover over the nuts for the steering rack U-bolts.  The subframe tails do not fully meet the floors and those blts/studs also appear to be "lost".  The front and rear panels are also slightly bowed in - the front enough to throw off the headlight alignments.

To me, it would be worth the extra cost to go for a whole new shell and get all of those mounting points back along with proper panels throughout.

Some of the others on this forum that have recently restored their Mokes may speak up and attest to the efforts/costs in doing theirs by panel replacement versus a new vintage correct shell.

The suspension upgrades planned are for making it possible to do full alignments - adjustable arms/brackets with standard bushings.  I plan on using rubber cones per stock and basic shocks if/when those get replaced.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on December 08, 2016, 07:45:53 PM
I will say once you're dealing with patches over patches, it's pretty hard to get it back looking good without spending a fortune.  One car in the shop currently suffers from this and some places you just have to cut your losses.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 08, 2016, 08:26:53 PM
If you look at the pictures in my album "Moke Body Issues" in the media section of this forum, you'll see some of why I am opting for the new shell.

I figure a little more for the new shell up front will be more cost effective in the long run.

I may discuss having our own "Captain Dan" do the paint job on it.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on December 09, 2016, 06:25:17 AM
Yeah gets to a point you have 9k+ in a body restoration, that no matter how good the work, just won't be like it came from the factory.  My clubman for example would be outrageously expensive for a customer to bring to me.  I don't mind my own time in it and realize it's going to be a fraken-mini sorta speak when it's done, but that's fine in this case for my intended purpose with the thing.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 09, 2016, 07:54:44 AM
I've had a couple of "franken-minis" before as well.  They were solid in their fashion and just as fun.  They met my needs/desires at the time.

This one "could" be left as it is, but the old floor remnants in the right side cubbies makes using them a bit iffy - too much chance of hands getting cut on ragged edges and the covered over steering rack bolts/nuts is unsettling.

I had to drill some drain holes in the floors and got rust powder for much of the drilling - not a good sign for those big floor patches either.

Besides, as I get into this one, the work will be therapeutic.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on December 09, 2016, 08:15:56 AM
Okay, based upon the information provided by the owner as well as those of a knowledgeable Mini restorer, looks like a new bodyshell is, in fact, a great idea after all.    Plus, it would be so nice to know it is 'right' and without any compromises.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 13, 2016, 12:30:36 PM
I think I have my long and short term plans for the Moke figured out.

Short Term:
- Suspension refurb/upgrade:
  - Adjustable front control rods
  - Adjustable front lower arms
  - New bushings
  - New rubber cones
  - New knuckle joints
  - Adjustable rear swing arm brackets
- Disk brake upgrade
  - 7.5" disk brakes
  - Spacers on rear to match
- Wheel refresh
  - Strip old paint and refinish
  - New tires

Long term:
- Engine upgrade to 998 with hybrid gearbox
  - Donor 998 from Bryan P.
  - Rebuilt unleaded head
  - Guessworks hybrid gearbox: magic wand shifter with updated 4-synchro A+ internals
  - 998 "refresh" performed by MiniDave
- New shell

I know I should be able to have most of the Short Term items done before the Spring Drive.  The Long Term items will be after the Spring Drive.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on December 13, 2016, 04:15:50 PM
All your short term stuff looks do-able in that time frame, and will result in a nice driving (if slow  ;D) Moke!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 13, 2016, 05:02:52 PM
I know it will reach 61 mph as it is now (as measured by gps - the speedometer is currently not working, supposedly needs new cable which was sent with it from seller).

(Note: That was also with the top down, so no "drag chute" effects involved.)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on December 13, 2016, 05:31:59 PM
I think your 998 engine plan is a good one, it will give you a performance boost where you need it but be reasonable for how you intend to use it.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on December 13, 2016, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on December 13, 2016, 05:02:52 PM
I know it will reach 61 mph as it is now (as measured by gps - the speedometer is currently not working, supposedly needs new cable which was sent with it from seller).

(Note: That was also with the top down, so no "drag chute" effects involved.)

If that is the top speed now, I think your 850 might be pretty tired.   My 850 Moke would show an indicated 75 mph which, back in pre-GPS days, I believed it to be about 70 or so based upon having my wife drive next to me in a 'real car' and making hand signs to try to tell me the speed.  (No way could I hear her with all the wind noise).  :)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 13, 2016, 09:34:22 PM
I don't know if the 61 is the top speed the current 850 will do, that was the top speed I have had it up to.

I was driving out to the Boerne "All British" car show, top down on a slightly chilly morning.  It was my first outing with it (still on the NY plates) and I did not want to push it too much being mostly "unknown" to me.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 19, 2016, 11:37:06 AM
New "hybrid" gearbox ordered and confirmed.  New shell ordered as well.

Time to get started on the "Short Term" list.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on December 19, 2016, 12:44:00 PM
How much for the old shell?
  .. think about it.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 19, 2016, 12:51:13 PM
An interesting thought.  I had not yet begun to consider what to do with the old shell.

I'll PM you to continue this train of thought separately.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on December 19, 2016, 04:04:54 PM
Quote from: jedduh01 on December 19, 2016, 12:44:00 PM
How much for the old shell?
  .. think about it.

Crossed my mind too.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on December 19, 2016, 04:18:14 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on December 19, 2016, 11:37:06 AM
New "hybrid" gearbox ordered and confirmed.  New shell ordered as well.


The Moke transformation begins! 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 22, 2016, 02:15:21 PM
Got the old tires dismounted from the rims today.

It turns out the alloys on it may be genuine MiniLites (they use the shafted nuts and flat washers as per the genuine ones at least).  Unfortunately, the previous owner had his detail guy paint the faces of the rims with a silver/gray paint.

I am weighing whether to have them stripped and refinished or offering them for sale and getting something different as replacements.

I had planned on having one of the new tires mounted on the better of two steel 3.5x10 rims (one painted white that came with the Moke - bad paint job, too - or one still in the factory plain painted steel).

The tire shop had no trouble dismounting the tires from the alloy rims, but the one tech really struggled with the steel rims.  He somehow bent the lip of the better (plain painted steel) rim folding a 5" section almost half way towards the center when trying to mount the new tire!  Fortunately, the new tire was not damaged.  That steel rim is trashed.  reconsidering whether I want to try the other - it now has a bunch of nicks on the backside from where that particular tech was having the machine hold the steel rim wrong.  He was trying to have the machine hold the rim from the inside like they do with the alloys and the rim kept popping off the machine.  A more experienced tech showed him the correct way for steel rims (machine holds them from the outside) and that is when he bent the one rim trying to install the tire.  When the same more experienced tech looked at both steel rims, he found they are the style where the tire gets mounted from the backside as well.



Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on December 22, 2016, 02:55:18 PM
Yeah, you have got to know what you're doing with these new  tire machines or you can do some real damage - as you found out, unfortunately - will they be buying you a new wheel? I have a steel one that needs refinishing that I would be happy to donate to the cause. It already has a tire on it but I'm sure it's a million years old.......

I mounted my 13" tires for the racing green Mini and they were a bit of a challenge........however I did pull the 10" off my steel ZTR wheels and they were no issue - but those are at least 6" wide wheels.

I never mount the wheel to the machine from the inside, steel or alloy, those pins can really make some nicks in the rim.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on December 22, 2016, 03:52:56 PM
Sorry to hear about the wheel damage - it's not really rocket science to change a tire.  Although most cars these days have alloys instead of steelies, they should still know how to deal with them when encountered. 

Regarding the potential authentic Minilites:  Only the racing versions of the Minilite are magnesium (and they'd be very conspicuous because of their light weight), but I would think that even genuine road-going Minilites should have some sort of markings on them that should help identify them
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 22, 2016, 08:07:27 PM
They refunded the labor costs of dismounting 6 tires (4 alloy wheels and 2 steel wheels).  I still have the other steel 3.5x10 for a spare if I stay with the current alloys.  They did offer to try to locate a replacement, but I declined as I already know getting a basic 3.5"x10" steel Mini wheel is difficult and usually means finding someone with one laying around they are willing to sell.

There do not seem to be any markings on the alloys.  They are the MiniLite style and use the same sleeved nuts as listed for the genuine MiniLites.  The reproduction MiniLites definitely have markings and one model even uses the sleeved nuts (most use tapered nuts), but there has been some debate in the past whether the original ones had markings.  These are extremely light rims - lighter than I remember any of the similar 10" ones I've had in the past.  Other than the front faces having been painted with a silver/gray paint, they appear to be in fantastic shape.

I know I can clean up the 3.5"x10" I still have as well as strip and repaint it.  It is getting the paint off the alloys that concerns me.  I checked a price quote at a reputable wheel refinishing place in town - they want $140 per rim to strip, repair as necessary and powder coat.  If I can use a chemical stripper and get just the paint off and return to the original finish, that would be worth trying myself and I may attempt that if I can't find somewhere more reasonable than $140 per rim.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: John Gervais on December 22, 2016, 08:18:54 PM
I don't think you'd want ask someone to powder coat them if they're magnesium.

My first set of MSC MiniLife wheels didn't have any markings, but the second set did.  The first set also had a poorer quality paint job  than the second set.  Additionally, the first set had very small gussets on the backside where the spokes met the round.  Both sets use the C-AHT1969 sleeved nuts with tapered washers.

Maybe posting a picture would point to something?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on December 22, 2016, 08:47:09 PM
I don't think I'd chemical strip them, I'd have someone shot blast them with glass beads. It leaves a really smooth surface that is easy to paint or clear coat if you prefer.....
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 22, 2016, 09:23:45 PM
I'll be out of town starting tomorrow (Friday) and won't be back until later Monday.  I'll take some pictures of the cleanest one early next week and post.

The sleeved nuts on mine use flat washers - no taper on the rims.

The barrel of the rims (normally hidden by the tire) seem to have a coating of some sort.

No clue as to the composition of the alloy - magnesium or aluminum.

They do have a nice ring to them when tapped like a bell.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on December 29, 2016, 07:24:07 PM
A small update:

I haven't heard back yet on the possible 998 engine and may instead go back to modifying the 850.  I am considering even holding off doing most of the small stuff until after the Spring Drive.  New wheels are ordered versus trying to refinish the MiniLites.  (The MiniLites are listed for sale in the classifieds on this forum.)  I'll put the new tires on the new rims and have the Moke back on the road "as-is" for the drives.  After that time, I can focus more on taking it apart for the restoration versus keeping it roadworthy for the drives.

Being "caregiver" for my mom is taking a lot more time than we had expected.  She is frail and easily experiences setbacks to her overall recovery.  She is 84 and her overall recovery from her own cancer treatments and then dad's passing may just be more limited than any of us foresaw.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on January 05, 2017, 06:37:41 PM
I'll be pushing out most f the work on the Moke until after the Spring Drive.  The new wheels are in transit, so it will be back on the road for the drives.  Planning on just adding the seat belts at this point until the fuller restoration effort.

Life and being caregiver for my mom has been taking most of my time.  She has not been doing very well this winter.  Her cancer is in remission, but the toll of the chemo treatments left her frail, topped off with dad's rapid passing in August and all the stress of getting his military, VA , and Social Security benefits and the various financial stuff dealt with has really weakened her.  This week has not been one of her better ones - I am spending the next few nights over to watch over her.  Also been working out arrangements for a new apartment for me that will accommodate both of us so she won't be in her condo alone - that happens mid February.

I've put in a request to one of my brothers for relief for the March drives.  We'll see how it goes.


Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on January 06, 2017, 08:05:36 AM
Michael, sounds like you have a lot of important things going on now.  Please let me know if I can help you with anything for the Spring Drive. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on January 06, 2017, 08:47:22 AM
Thanks Bruce, I will keep that in mind.  The segment to check/verify is a set of winding back roads from Center Point, TX (outside Comfort) over to Hwy 46 going to Boerne, TX.  If that checks out, I then need to make copies of the route segments and put together into drive packets for handing out.

Lunch stops will be part of each drive and noted in the drive packets.  Breakfasts are open.  Dinners to be determined.  I can make the recommendation that at least one be at the Cowboy Steakhouse in Kerrville.  The owners are family friends and the food is very good and generous.  (Excellent wine list as well.)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on January 06, 2017, 12:20:21 PM
It's been at least 8 years since I drove around there, but I fondly remember the Willow City Loop north of Fredericksburg as well as highway 337 out to Leakey.   
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on January 06, 2017, 12:55:35 PM
Part of 337 is on one of the routes.

77.gif

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on January 06, 2017, 02:22:41 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on January 06, 2017, 12:55:35 PM
Part of 337 is on one of the routes.


Excellent!   

Have you ever been on the Willow City Loop?   
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on January 06, 2017, 04:03:05 PM
Yes.  It has been a while, but I have been on that road.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: bryanp on January 26, 2017, 04:34:16 PM
Michael - check your PM.  I've been so busy that I haven't been on the forum for awhile and I missed your PMs asking about the engine!  Sorry! It's yours if you still want it.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on January 28, 2017, 06:00:27 PM
I had a friend assist me today to install some seat belts into the Moke.  It proved to be an interesting experience.

This poor Moke has seen much better days.  I knew it had rust repairs done the "basic flat steel panel" method in the floors.  Today's endeavor revealed a bit more on just how bad the floors were at one time.  I am not sure how to describe how bad it must have been and how "quick & dirty" the past repairs are.

There is a cover panel goes under the fuel tank.  I had to try to remove that for checking clearances for drilling a hole to mount the outside half of what will be the driver's seat belt.  They did not recreate the holes in the outer lip of the pontoon for bolts to the captive nuts in the panel on that edge and tried to tack weld the remnants of the brackets on the floor for the tunnel side of the cover plate to secure to.  Since those were iffy at best, they tack welded each of the inner corners to the replacement floor.  Unfortunately the bracket remnants were "Swiss Cheese" rust and the nuts rusted to the studs.  When attempting to move the nuts in either direction, the bracket remnants just tore loose again.  The edges of the cover plate were ragged as well.  Going to have to order a new one of those.

It also looks like the end of the heal board hidden behind the tank is almost gone.  There appear to be remnants where the subframe mounts, but a significant gap from the mount to the inner wall of the pontoon.

I am very glad I have a new shell ordered.

I did not have my camera with me to get a picture.  I will try to remember when I get back to trying to finish the front seat belts.

The current cover plate won't be going back on - nothing to mount it to.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 22, 2017, 08:49:31 AM
Overdue a slight update:

Regarding the fuel tank protector plate - we worked out bolting some tabs onto the plate and then bolting those to the floor.  I've tried to add a new protector plate to the body order.

I had the Moke almost ready for the Spring Drives when my mom became even more ill and then passed away during the week of the drives.  It is kind of sitting right now.

The bit of "good news": the replacement "hybrid" gearbox is being shipped.  It should be here late in the week or early next week.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on March 22, 2017, 09:21:29 AM

Did you wind up getting the 998 from New Mexico?

After that run, seeing how well Dan's worn out 998 did I think it would be a great way to go, the only place the 998 was weak was on long up hill runs, other than that it was as fast as anything else on the run.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 22, 2017, 09:32:21 AM
Dave,

Yes, I got the 998 from Bryan in New Mexico.  It is still crated on a pallet in my garage.

The intent is to put the "hybrid" gearbox under the 998, add the freshly rebuilt head I got from 7Ent along with the new carb and factory cast manifold.

I have not yet fully decided if I am going to do much else to the replacement engine at this point.

Still getting myself reoriented from all the family stuff and loss of my mom.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on March 22, 2017, 09:56:20 AM
I think that sounds like a good combo, what do you have for carburetion?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 22, 2017, 10:08:18 AM
It will be a single HS-4 with K&N cone filter.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 24, 2017, 02:52:13 PM
The new transmission arrived today.   71.gif

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on March 24, 2017, 02:55:18 PM
Isn't it great when the packages arrive?    When do you expect the new body? 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 24, 2017, 05:38:34 PM
Trying to get a status update and ETA on the body.  May have to try calling the place in the UK come Monday.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 15, 2017, 12:56:53 PM
I forgot to post a follow-up from contacting M-Parts.

They had to wait on getting some of the panels for my build made and switched to other projects.  They anticipate being back on mine around the middle of April.  They are still anticipating a late April or early May completion with a mid-to-late May shipping.

I am supposed to get am email with some additional recommendations to consider as other bulky parts (such as subframes) can go into the crate with the body and save on shipping costs.

Edit:
I unpacked the replacement 998 engine t begin the cleanup and update on it.  Still having trouble getting my ambition level up enough to really tackle getting it ready.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on April 15, 2017, 02:01:33 PM
Don't force it, just do one little thing each day and before long you're moving the project forward.

Mid May, just in time for Texas summer weather to appear, right?

It's already been pretty warm here, today it's in the low 80's when they said a max of 72....
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 15, 2017, 02:15:02 PM
Also just in time for me to downsize from the current 3-bedroom apartment to a 2-bedroom apartment.  At least I will still have a 2-car garage at the 2-bedroom apartment.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 26, 2017, 12:32:11 PM
Began the cleanup on the 998 this week.  Gave it a good degreasing Monday.  Today it got soda blasted (which works pretty well on the alloy parts, so-so on the cast iron block), wire brushed (conical brush on the end of the drill) some, and another degreasing.  I need to do some more wire brush work to get it fully cleaned down for basic painting, swapping the transmission and swapping the head.  I will try to remember to get a couple pictures along the way.

Once I get the head and transmission swap done, I will post the old parts up here for someone that may want them.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 01, 2017, 03:12:24 PM
Here are some pictures of where I did the start of the engine cleanup.  I did more wire brush work today, but did not get ending pictures yet.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2352)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2353)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2354)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on May 01, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
I like your distributor cover!    Are you going to pull the mechanical fuel pump and replace with an electric one?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 01, 2017, 06:16:04 PM
I wanted something to keep stuff out while degreasing, washing and soda blasting the block, so a small piece of cardboard laminated in shipping tape seemed the perfect budget solution.

The Moke already has an electric fuel pump and I will be staying with that.  So, yes, the mechanical fuel pump is coming off and a blanking plate going on.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 02, 2017, 10:25:07 AM
Here is where I got to yesterday with the cleanup.

I took the fuel pump off for more room to clean around that part of the back of the block and timing cover plate.  I will put the blanking plate on before doing more cleanup there (to keep dust & such out).

I cleaned all the old paint off the thermostat housing - ready for silver paint.  I will also pretty up the starter while at it.


(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2355)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2356)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2357)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2358)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on May 02, 2017, 01:30:16 PM
Progress!  4.gif
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 02, 2017, 02:30:38 PM
Yes, progress.  But slow.  Spent most of this afternoon on the phone arranging new health insurance - my COBRA runs out either June or July.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on May 03, 2017, 07:23:27 AM
Making moves!  I LOVE my 998 + magic wand HS4Carbed moke too! it will be spectacular!
FOR SURE = fill up your tub with every Rubber + unique Moke part from m Parts when that shell ships.


A few things i got = later upon re assembly that you cant find in the US.

Windshield Gaskets + trim
UK Moke emergency brake cables are a unique legenth.
Mirrors
Grab handles if needed
Welting strips (under the hood)
Body grommets if needed
Hood bonnet rubber pull latches
bumper bar end rubbers
Shift boot

Convert top + roof straps
Seat Pad /cushions (they are great re makes)

So many mechanical parts are mini shared= easy to source other ways.

Cant wait to watch progress.

Are you having Them paint the shell?

Exciting / Goodluck!







Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 03, 2017, 07:34:38 AM
jedduh01,

Thanks for the list of "extras" to consider.  They are not painting the shell.  It will arrive in primer with the underside also given a "stone chip" coating.

Some of the bits you've listed are still in good shape on my Moke and I plan on trying to reuse them.

I'm going to get the paint done here so the body parts being re-used can be painted to match (seats, side covers, steering column support, gauge housing, bumpers, windshield surround, grab handles).

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on May 03, 2017, 07:53:12 AM
jedduh is right about the rubber parts tho, you'll want all new ones....especially those grommets and plugs.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on May 03, 2017, 09:05:42 AM
Quote from: jedduh01 on May 03, 2017, 07:23:27 AM
UK Moke emergency brake cables are a unique legenth.

I think that's backwards.  A UK Moke's brake cables should be identical to a Mk. I and Mk. II Mini as they had the same 80" wheelbase.   It was the later Oz Mokes that had the special lengthened rear trailing arms to accommodate the 13" wheels, so that's the ones with the longer brake cables. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on May 03, 2017, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: BruceK on May 03, 2017, 09:05:42 AM
Quote from: jedduh01 on May 03, 2017, 07:23:27 AM
UK Moke emergency brake cables are a unique legenth.

I think that's backwards.  A UK Moke's brake cables should be identical to a Mk. I and Mk. II Mini as they had the same 80" wheelbase.   It was the later Oz Mokes that had the special lengthened rear trailing arms to accommodate the 13" wheels, so that's the ones with the longer brake cables.


My experience trying to order first saloon cables from Seven = Too short
Re ordered Estate cables - too short, This
       Lead to the reason Seven Ent now has "10'wheel' Moke cables available on their site. We all learned from that one.

http://www.7ent.com/products/handbrake-cable-moke-w-10-wheels-bhm9665.html

Had i not ruined one, i would have re used the original . oh well = cut, learn, rebuild
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on May 03, 2017, 11:16:04 AM
Quote from: jedduh01 on May 03, 2017, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: BruceK on May 03, 2017, 09:05:42 AM
Quote from: jedduh01 on May 03, 2017, 07:23:27 AM
UK Moke emergency brake cables are a unique legenth.

I think that's backwards.  A UK Moke's brake cables should be identical to a Mk. I and Mk. II Mini as they had the same 80" wheelbase.   It was the later Oz Mokes that had the special lengthened rear trailing arms to accommodate the 13" wheels, so that's the ones with the longer brake cables.


My experience trying to order first saloon cables from Seven = Too short
Re ordered Estate cables - too short, This
       Lead to the reason Seven Ent now has "10'wheel' Moke cables available on their site. We all learned from that one.

http://www.7ent.com/products/handbrake-cable-moke-w-10-wheels-bhm9665.html

Had i not ruined one, i would have re used the original . oh well = cut, learn, rebuild

I defer to your lesson learned. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 03, 2017, 01:26:24 PM
Got the block cleanup finished today and masked for painting the main block.  Also installed the fuel pump blanking plate.

After painting the block itself, I will re-mask and paint the oil transfer pipe and filter head in a high temperature silver.  I am going to also paint the thermostat housing in the same silver.

I will clean the clutch cover and flywheel housing again once I pull them off to change the transmission.  I may also paint them in the same silver.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2359)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2360)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2361)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Willie_B on May 03, 2017, 02:36:42 PM
What works good to cover odd shaped items and is easy to remove is aluminum foil.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on May 03, 2017, 04:06:03 PM
Quote from: Willie_B on May 03, 2017, 02:36:42 PM
What works good to cover odd shaped items and is easy to remove is aluminum foil.
I love that idea.  Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 04, 2017, 09:16:34 AM
I now have the block all painted and ready for taking things apart to put the fresh head on and swap the transmission.

Next cleanups will be the starter, clutch cover and flywheel housing while those are off for the swaps.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2362)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2363)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2364)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: gr8kornholio on May 04, 2017, 10:00:33 AM
Excuse the new guy question, but why does this block have those two plates on it with the bolt in the middle and the one having a breather?  I don't believe mine has that, or is it I just cant see them due to the header.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 04, 2017, 10:19:12 AM
Those are the "tappet chest covers".  The engine is an "pre-A+" 998cc engine.

Most of the small bore "pre-A+" engines and some of the pre-1970 Cooper-S 1275 engines had them.  Later engines did not get them and the non-Cooper-S 1275's did not have them.  I believe all of the "A+" engines were without them.

They give direct access to the lifters without having to take out the cam.  On the engines with the tappet chest covers, they put the breather on the one cover instead of the timing chain cover.  They are also one more place for potential oil leaks.


Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on May 04, 2017, 05:57:58 PM
Have you decided what color you'll be painting the Moke?

BTW, some of those tappet covers did not have the breather at all, and some had a thing called a road tube, which is simply a tube that arches up then down the back of the block and is open on the end - driving down the road pulled the engine vapors right out of the block and into the air. We don't do it that way anymore for obvious reasons!

All of this - the road tube, tappet covers, remote shifter and 1100 tab make me wonder if this is actually a 1071 instead of a 1098? The engine in my '62 Cooper S was a 1071, and the serial number on this engine indicates it came from an MG1100 or Wolseley 1100 which would have been in the same era but MiniMania says it's a 1098 based on the attached engine serial number.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 04, 2017, 06:16:34 PM
I get a chuckle out of that road tube - it is using the mechanical fuel pump blanking plate as a mounting point and dumps right on top of part of the Remote/Wand shift linkage.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on May 04, 2017, 06:42:34 PM
Keeps the shift linkage lubricated!   ;D
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 05, 2017, 09:02:40 AM
The new "unleaded" head going on.  A new copper topped head gasket is under there and a new piece of heater hose for the thermostat bypass hose.  New studs will be installed for the manifold and thermostat housing (I just have to find them in the boxes of parts).

I had to open one of the tappet covers as one of the lifters had pulled up and out of its guide when I took out the push-rods.  I have new seals for the tappet covers anyway and will put them back on with the new seals.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2365)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2366)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2367)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: pbraun on May 05, 2017, 09:13:29 AM
Looking good!  I have an 850 Moke - 1965 - finally on the road this spring - been driving it around and so far happy enough with the 850. 

Your project reminds me of mine - I did get a 998 along the way, but decided not to use it at this time. If I do go for an upgrade, will probably do a 1275, but for now I'll just putter along.

Interested in seeing your progress!  Keep up the good work
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on May 05, 2017, 11:24:39 AM
Yep, coming along nicely....it always baffles me how parts bathed in oil inside an engine can rust - like those pushrods. Other than that the insides of that engine look pretty clean!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 07, 2017, 09:04:57 AM
The rocker assembly is now back on and the head torqued down to 40 ft-lbs per the manual.  I have not adjusted the valves yet - they are still all backed off.  I may leave those until after getting the transmission swapped.  Going to move on to that this week.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 10, 2017, 11:02:36 AM
Well, my efforts on the transmission swap just stalled.  My flywheel locking tool seems to have gone missing at some point.  I could swear that was one tool I kept after the last full project Mini several years back.  I think I may have loaned it out and it did not come back, can't remember for certain.  Oh well, such is life.

Going to have to order another.  Might as well order a flywheel puller at the same time versus see if one from Harbor Freight would work.  I'll evaluate the clutch arm and plunger to see if those need replaced as well.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on May 10, 2017, 11:29:20 AM
I use an old main bearing shell to hold the flywheel while I take off or torque the flywheel bolt......
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on May 10, 2017, 12:13:27 PM
Been so long since I pulled one off a mini but on my rx7 bolted a chain to the flywheel and block to work the flywheel nut off.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 10, 2017, 12:14:04 PM
I don't have anything like a main bearing shell to use.  Somerford Mini sells a tool specially made to lock the flywheel.  It engages a few teeth of the flywheel and bolts to where the starter mounts.  I had one before, but can't find it now.

Ordered the specialty tool from Somerford.  Also ordered some other clutch parts from Mini Spares as the arm and plunger had significant wear.  I'll replace those two plus the throw-out bearing, clevis pins, slave cylinder, push rod, rear seal, and line from the master to the slave (going with the one-piece flex/braided line - one each for clutch and brakes).

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 17, 2017, 01:50:17 PM
The order from MiniSpares arrived yesterday.  Still need the flywheel locking tool from Somerford to arrive - its coming by regular post.

Finally got an update on the new Moke shell - about another 4 weeks for completion as there were delays getting all the panels that resulted in a shift in project order at M-Parts.

That puts the shipping date right near my next apartment move - downsizing where my mom passed away and I no longer need a three bedroom apartment.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: pbraun on May 20, 2017, 05:38:22 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on May 10, 2017, 11:29:20 AM
I use an old main bearing shell to hold the flywheel while I take off or torque the flywheel bolt......

Yeah, so do I. Prior to that discovery I just used a super large screwdriver and jammed it in there.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 20, 2017, 07:07:08 AM
Well, the tool is ordered and should arrive next week. 

Time is one thing I seem to have plenty of right now.  Unfortunately, it does not always seem to be in my favor.  The new body is currently scheduled to be completed in about another 4 weeks - right when I downsize apartments.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 29, 2017, 08:08:46 AM
Still waiting for the flywheel locking tool.  I may try the wedged screwdriver method in order to start making progress again.

On top of it, they replaced the roof on my apartment building Friday.  The garage has no ceiling - open all the way to the roof.  I now have OSB flakes all over everything in the garage.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 31, 2017, 01:33:04 PM
Swept most of the garage yesterday to clean up the OSB flakes before tearing further into the engine.

The flywheel locking tool was at my PO box today, so that will make moving forward a bit easier.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 01, 2017, 10:06:45 AM
I now have the clutch/flywheel assembly off.  The keyed washer was a pain to pry loose.

I also got VERY lucky.  The 'C' washer the manual warns you about ... had been installed upside down!  I had the timing marks properly lined up for #1TDC and the washer turned out to be facing down.  Fortunately, things were sticky enough it did not fall loose until after I had the flywheel/clutch clear off.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2370)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2371)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 01, 2017, 01:35:15 PM
Why did you pull the back cover off? Flywheel end crankshaft seal?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 01, 2017, 02:10:15 PM
In order to change the transmission.  I am putting in one of the Guessworks "Hybrid" transmissions - latest 4-synchro gearset in a magic-wand case.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 01, 2017, 02:41:28 PM
Oh crap.......I forgot! It's hell getting old....... :-[
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 01, 2017, 02:55:45 PM
I do have a new rear seal that will be going in as a precaution since I had to pull the housing for the transmission change.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 02, 2017, 02:19:36 PM
No pictures today, but another small step of progress: the studs from the old transmission case have been moved to the new transmission case, the flywheel housing completely degreased/cleaned and the outside repainted in the same silver as the clutch cover and oil feed pipe/filter housing.

(Yes, I'm going the "black & silver" color scheme on the engine.)

I'm hoping to get the old transmission removed tomorrow or Sunday.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 02, 2017, 02:40:26 PM
Do you have an engine hoist? I can comfortably lift a bare block - but block, head, crank, cam and pistons.....nope.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 02, 2017, 02:59:33 PM
Yes, I have an engine hoist.  Used it to transfer the engine from the pallet it arrived on to the dolly it now rests on.  I will be using it for making the separation - hopefully tomorrow.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 04, 2017, 09:52:51 AM
Well, good-news-bad-news time.

Good: I have the 998 block separated from its original transmission and just resting on the "hybrid" transmission (no seals done yet).

Bad: The original middle transfer gear on the 998 is the newer "thick shaft" gear and the "hybrid" transmission case is the earlier "narrow shaft" bearing.

Time to research a solution:
a) Is there a "cross-over" gear available?
b) Can I locate an earlier sized gear, thrust washers and flywheel housing?

I really don't want to wait and tear into the 850 to see what size it has and possibly "rob" it for the fix.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 04, 2017, 10:01:09 AM
John at Guessworks will know, and he'll have the part if there is any such thing.....maybe all you need is a different bearing?

http://www.guess-works.com/ (http://www.guess-works.com/)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 04, 2017, 01:25:19 PM
I did not think to go back to Guessworks for a possible solution.

There is a conversion bearing available (both at MiniSpares and Guessworks).  I ordered one and a new idler gear and some thrust washers from MiniSpares.

While I wait, I get to pull the idler gear bearing from the flywheel housing.  I already got out the outer race of the input shaft bearing.  I'll get both out, touch up the paint on the housing and install both new ones when the idler gear stuff arrives later in the week.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 04, 2017, 01:49:45 PM
Best way to do that, put a couple of 2X4's on the floor, heat the bearing area from the back with a propane torch as hot as it will go, pick up the housing and bang it on the wood, the bearing should pop right out. Be sure to cool the housing before you pick it up again! 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 04, 2017, 02:27:39 PM
Interesting.  The manuals I have explicitly say to not use direct flame on the alloy.

The get the outer race for the input shaft bearing out, I heated the housing in the oven for about 10-15 minutes at 350*, then did "bang it" on the floor of the garage.  It slipped far enough out for getting the puller I have (from Autozone) under the edges and then used the puller to finish the job.  I figured on trying the same for the idler bearing.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 05, 2017, 01:03:25 PM
The idler gear support bearing in the flywheel housing is been a B**ch to remove.  I've tried the heat&bang method several times (heat in the oven as well as using a 1500W heat gun) and it does not budge.

I even bought one of these at Harbor Freight and it won't budge:

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2372)

I'm going to try chilling it with letting an ice pack sit over the bearing for a while before heating it in the oven and trying the slide hammer again.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 05, 2017, 01:37:35 PM
The problem with heating it in the oven is that all the parts expand together.....if you take a cold part, and heat it only around the bearing area from the other side it will release.....but you need to heat it with propane, a hair dryer won't do it - it heats too gradually.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on June 05, 2017, 01:50:17 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on June 05, 2017, 01:03:25 PM


I even bought one of these at Harbor Freight and it won't budge:

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2372)

I'm going to try chilling it with letting an ice pack sit over the bearing for a while before heating it in the oven and trying the slide hammer again.

YES tool is the ONLY way i have been able to remove 2 or 3 so far .. never any luck with heat..

I put down a pad on the ground = Stand on the housing and slam the hammer up.. Its not pretty but is what has been required.

Goodluck
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 05, 2017, 02:21:19 PM
I couldn't get it out with my slide hammer, I went to the auto parts store and borrowed theirs, it had a much heavier hammer than mine and that got it out.

I used my Workmate to hold the housing, and used the slide hammer sideways rather than up.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 05, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
Success!!!

The combination of using ice to chill it slightly before baking and the slide hammer (standing on the housing as per jedduh01 - no workmate) got it out.

The baking in the oven is supposed to work "reasonably" well as the dis-similar metals expand at different rates - the alloy case supposedly faster than the steel bearing/race.  The method worked well enough on the race for the input shaft bearing, but would not do anything for the idler gear bearing.

With them both out, I can finish preparing the flywheel housing for the new bearings to go with the new transmission.  I just have to wait on the parts from Mini Spares.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 05, 2017, 02:29:46 PM
Excellent! Glad you got it out OK. Add another tool to the toolbox!   ;D
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 06, 2017, 10:47:43 AM
Got an update on the expected completion date for the new shell - it now looks to be near the end of June for completion.   :(    11.gif

At least I should be into the next apartment by then. 

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on June 06, 2017, 11:54:32 AM
That will be an exciting day when that large package arrives! 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 06, 2017, 12:19:02 PM
Wonder how they will unload it and get it up to the garage?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 06, 2017, 01:32:02 PM
Probably much like the pallet with the 998 engine: hand operated forklift.  I'll have some small 1000 pound capacity furniture dollies to put the crate on for shoving around to start.

I may make a frame to attach to the dollies and make them all one unit.  Since I'm going to be dismantling from one shell and assembling onto the other, I may actually need to make two.   8.gif


Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on June 06, 2017, 01:50:02 PM
I probably missed it if you said so, but will it arrive painted?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 06, 2017, 02:48:28 PM
It will arrive in primer.

I have a few minor "mods" to some mounting points to make before it gets painted: moving the rear seats forward to make room for the truck box requires a fresh set of holes for the rearmost set of bolts, bolt holes for mounting the truck box itself, mounting holes in the rear panel for the 5 gal "jerry can" accessory.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on June 07, 2017, 04:51:49 PM
I'm curious if the primer is good or the stuff that tends to peel easily.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 07, 2017, 04:57:13 PM
I have no idea.  How would I be able to tell once it gets here?

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on June 07, 2017, 06:19:51 PM
Hit it with a pressure washer or try putting tape on it and pulling the tape off.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 07, 2017, 06:46:18 PM
I don't have a pressure washer, but I do have the blue "painter's" masking tape.  I'll try that when it finally arrives.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on June 08, 2017, 01:32:44 PM
For Shell  = movement and work == I highly recommend a Large Oversize Pallet  + 3' castered wheels.
Pallet = cheap - free

Wheels= easy

Strong + durable to stand on . work on= flip on everything.

Cant wait to see.

My pallet build has now moved along to Mr Howell for his current Vtec Mini Rebuild as seen on here!

Cant wait to see!

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 08, 2017, 02:28:49 PM
Something like your pallet idea was what I had in mind using the small furniture dollies at each corner.  Something I could readily dismantle when done.

I already have 4 of the small dollies from previously when I had the green Mini Van in the same garage as a Miata.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on June 08, 2017, 03:38:03 PM
For bare shells a pallet with 4 casters with brakes is the way to go.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on June 09, 2017, 05:56:31 AM
If i remember correctly = I took the casters OFF of a cheap HF Dolley...  and they were what went on my big ole pallet= No Problems....no locking= but 2 swiveled = in place   the assembly stayed in place just fine.

12$ HF Dolley s complete are even cheaper than single wheels sold per wheel .  part it out!
.


Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 09, 2017, 06:50:09 AM
I have one of the currently $12 larger ones with some extra slats added as an "engine dolly" and 4 of the slightly smaller (currently $11) ones that I used as "wheel dollies" for the green Mini Van.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 09, 2017, 02:18:05 PM
Still waiting on the parts from Mini Spares.  Supposedly coming DHL "courier express", but no tracking number was given with the invoice confirmation email.  Not at my PO Box as of 1:30 this afternoon.

I really want to button up the engine before I move apartments.

I need to post some of the "core" parts for sale as well.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 09, 2017, 02:37:34 PM
I get constant updates from DHL, and they usually deliver a day before their initial projected delivery date.......don't know if that's just due to the local office's policy and your office works differently or what, but I get incredibly good service from MS on DHL.

My customer ordered some parts I needed for his car and was flabbergasted how quickly they were delivered to me. Of course, I AM on a first name basis with my DHL driver, due to the frequency of his visits!  ;D
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on June 09, 2017, 03:12:21 PM
I ordered parts late Tuesday night from MiniSpares (so Wednesday morning in the UK) and DHL informed me this morning that they would be delivered on Monday (to Dan).   Pretty darn quick 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 09, 2017, 03:33:37 PM
I sent Mini Spare (Ivan) an email requesting the tracking number.  Most things I order via the webs (not just Mini parts) automatically send the tracking number.  UK shops seem to be "hit or miss" about what service they use and whether to bother with tracking.

"Maybe" the folks at Mini Spares will have some office hours tomorrow and see the email before Monday.

Seems to be more of how life has been the past year and a half: try to make a couple simple plans and life takes a sudden left turn making me throw out the plans.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 09, 2017, 04:36:14 PM
Yeah, I never get a reply to an email  I send them on Friday till Monday or Tuesday, by then I usually already have the parts!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 09, 2017, 05:12:14 PM
I'll check my PO box again tomorrow and hope the parts have arrived.

I just wish they would automatically provide the tracking numbers on such shipments, rather than the customer having to request it.

On my last Somerford order, I specifically asked for "least expensive shipping with tracking" and they sent it regular Royal Mail without any tracking.  That was the flywheel locking tool - it took two full weeks to arrive.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 09, 2017, 05:16:30 PM
I'm surprised DHL will deliver to a PO Box, I know Fed Ex and UPS won't.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 09, 2017, 06:11:01 PM
It is a "private" PO box - not a USPS one.  It is at a "Pak-Mail" outfit - similar to the PO boxes available at some UPS Stores.

It gives me a physical address where someone will sign for most items and hold them for me.  The address is a normal street address, plus suite # and box #.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 09, 2017, 06:17:55 PM
Ah..........so, so, so
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 14, 2017, 03:45:19 PM
Finally back to a little progress on the replacement engine.

I got the parts in for matching the pre-A+ transmission to the A+ flywheel housing (all being mated to a pre-A+ block).  I got the conversion bearing installed into the flywheel housing, the end-float for the new idler gear figured out and the nearest thrust washer set put on the gear shaft ready for installation.  It also has a new input shaft bearing and race and new rear seal.  I also got the block and transmission mated and bolted with new front seal, o-ring and surface gaskets.  Next will be putting the flywheel housing back on.

A few pictures of it finally coming back together.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2373)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2374)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2375)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 14, 2017, 05:24:11 PM
So that's what a pudding stirrer transmission looks like!   ;D

You're making good progress, are you going to mount it in the current Moke to run for a while?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 14, 2017, 07:14:41 PM
I had not planned on putting it in the current Moke body.  I had been hoping the new body would have been here by now, but it got delayed.

Having driven the Moke in its current body and comparing against all other Minis I've had (including an Aussie Moke), this one feels squeamish on the road.  Having been underneath it a bit, I can see why.  The left rear heel board near the subframe mount (behind the fuel tank) is only partly there.  There is a "tab" of it where the actual subframe mount is, but a significant portion running towards the center tunnel is missing - rotted away.  The tab still present does not look very solid either.

When moving to the current apartment, a friend was following me over and said it looked like it was "crabbing" down the road.  It felt that way to me as well.

All of that said, I decided to keep the driving to a minimum until I can build it back up in the new body.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 15, 2017, 05:50:03 PM
I hate "two steps forward, one step backward" stuff!

When I ordered the new idler gear (pre-A+), I forgot about the primary gear being A+.   :-[

The tooth profile is slightly different and they don't mesh well - would not let the new idler slide in place after getting the block and transmission mated.  Iwent back and checked the input shaft gear and it is the same profile as the new idler gear, so it is pre-A+.  Had to make another Mini Spares order of a new pre-A+ primary gear and a series of shims.

Now to see how long it takes for this order to get processed and sent.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: pbraun on June 18, 2017, 09:47:38 AM
Nice progress being made! 

A new shell should be fun!  After final paint, be sure to protect that newly painted surface. I didn't and had to fix afterwards - not as good.  22.gif 22.gif
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 18, 2017, 10:00:07 AM
Protect the newly painted surfaces as in?

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 18, 2017, 10:28:59 AM
I think one of the best things you can do to protect a newly painted car is to leave it alone and let the paint cure out for a while, a week....a month is even better. Dan will know the answer to that tho.....

The absolute best way is to build the entire car in primer, drill all the holes you need etc, then blow it all back apart again for the top coat.

Other than that, lots of soft towels and such wherever you're working.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on June 18, 2017, 11:31:09 AM
Most paint suppliers recommend two weeks before waxing.  It's also easier to color sand and buff within the first couple days while it's still soft.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 18, 2017, 02:42:09 PM
I'll let you guys coach me on some of this.

My plan for the new shell had been make all of the modifications to mounting points (such as for moving the rear seats forward extra, adding the truck box, adding the jerry-can mount, etc.) while it was still in primer.  Once all of those had been made, have the shell painted and let the painter have it for whatever amount of time was necessary for any color sanding and finish work.

I had been planning on removing the least amount of things from the old shell I could get away with for going with the new shell to the painter - such as the seats, side covers, gauge housing, windshield frame, anything else I want body colored.

Once the new shell and matching bits were back, then I would begin the serious disassembly of the old shell and refurbish things such as the suspension, subframes, brakes, wiring (new harness going in) as those items are prepared for installing into the new shell.

I have not yet determined whether to try any local paint shops or see about having Dan do the painting.  I had not wanted to take the Moke as it is to any local paint shops for estimates as I want to be sure the new shell is on its way before getting quotes.

Color-wise, I am planning on staying with a bright white as the main color.  Only a few items will be a contrasting black - steering column shroud & support, bumpers, seat pads.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 18, 2017, 03:03:24 PM
Quote from: 94touring on June 18, 2017, 11:31:09 AM
  It's also easier to color sand and buff within the first couple days while it's still soft.

That doesn't load your paper too much?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jeff10049 on June 18, 2017, 04:11:09 PM
The water keeps the paper from loading, I like to get on it the next morning or later the same day when I can. saves tons  of time and sandpaper.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 19, 2017, 02:48:00 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on June 18, 2017, 02:42:09 PM
I'll let you guys coach me on some of this.

My plan for the new shell had been make all of the modifications to mounting points (such as for moving the rear seats forward extra, adding the truck box, adding the jerry-can mount, etc.) while it was still in primer.  Once all of those had been made, have the shell painted and let the painter have it for whatever amount of time was necessary for any color sanding and finish work.

I had been planning on removing the least amount of things from the old shell I could get away with for going with the new shell to the painter - such as the seats, side covers, gauge housing, windshield frame, anything else I want body colored.

Once the new shell and matching bits were back, then I would begin the serious disassembly of the old shell and refurbish things such as the suspension, subframes, brakes, wiring (new harness going in) as those items are prepared for installing into the new shell.

I have not yet determined whether to try any local paint shops or see about having Dan do the painting.  I had not wanted to take the Moke as it is to any local paint shops for estimates as I want to be sure the new shell is on its way before getting quotes.

Color-wise, I am planning on staying with a bright white as the main color.  Only a few items will be a contrasting black - steering column shroud & support, bumpers, seat pads.

No comments on the above plan?  Is the approach good, bad, or otherwise? 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on June 19, 2017, 03:01:16 PM
Yeah basically I'd do the same thing. Do body mods, paint it, then swap parts from the old shell to it.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 19, 2017, 03:27:42 PM
Dan,

Thanks.  Sometimes I need encouragement that I am headed in the right direction.

When it comes time for painting the new shell, I seem to recall you stated in another thread that you are pretty booked up for a while.  Even so, any rough estimate for painting it?  As noted in the plan above - most likely going to stay with a bright white.  (Hopefully, that is an easier and less expensive color?)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on June 19, 2017, 07:07:47 PM
I'll send you a pm with the details. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 28, 2017, 01:59:33 PM
I got settled in enough from moving apartments this last weekend to actually test fit the new primary gear and check its end float.  It fit nicely - the teethe mesh properly all the way though the drop gears now.  The existing thrust washer for the primary gear was even the right size and I did not have to try fitting any of the variety I ordered with the new primary gear.

I now have spare thrust washers for both the idler gear and primary gear to store away for "potential future needs".

I have to get a couple replacement bolts for the flywheel housing and it can go back on with a fresh gasket.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on June 28, 2017, 03:35:08 PM
Sounds like great progress.  Nice when things come together
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 28, 2017, 04:47:32 PM
Not really great progress, but nice that I can get back to putting it back together.

I need to get onto the folks in the UK about the status of the new body.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 30, 2017, 12:06:56 PM
Progress!

I now have the flywheel housing and flywheel back on.  Pictures below.

I also got up at 3:00 am to call and find out the status on the new body shell.  They are scheduled to resume work on it next week and anticipate another 2 to 3 weeks to complete (barring any more interruptions).  So the sad news is I am likely to not get it before the middle of August.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2376)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2377)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2378)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on July 02, 2017, 11:52:44 AM
A bit more progress again today:

- new throw out bearing and plunger installed
- new clutch arm and clevis pin installed
- new motor mount installed
- 'wok' cover back on the flywheel housing

I left the arm stop adjusted in quite a bit to leave the arm loose for now.   Next will be to do a final head torque, final valve adjustment and adjust the clutch arm.  Then put the starter back on, the thermostat in place and the valve cover on.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2379)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on July 02, 2017, 12:01:48 PM
Looking good  4.gif
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on July 04, 2017, 06:01:07 PM
No picture, but a little more progress:

Got the clutch arm stop and plunger stop nuts adjusted, the head torqued one more time and the valves adjusted.  Also mounted the starter and clutch slave cylinder.  I still need to attach the new hydraulic line (going with one of the one-piece braided lines from the master direct to the slave).

I also decided to convert to an alternator in the overall effort, so ordered one from Mini Spares with some other bits.

Does anyone have an old, used and unwanted (can be non-working) voltage regulator box?

I want to cannibalize it for the connections to make a jumper block for the conversion.  My new wiring harness is for the generator setup and will need a jumper block made.  I've made one from an old regulator before as that makes a nice clean arrangement.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on July 04, 2017, 06:10:12 PM
I'll bet Dan has one on the 66 Cooper S
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: tmsmini on July 05, 2017, 09:02:42 AM
I may have one that has already had the internal modification. I am not sure what shape it is in, as i just put it in a bin when removing the old harness.
I will pull it out today.
Terry
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on July 05, 2017, 09:34:28 AM
Thanks Terry.  Let me know what you find.

The last time I did such a modification, I cut off the connector block from the rest of a non-working regulator box and soldered heavy jumpers between the appropriate terminals and then epoxied the back to seal it and prevent accidental shorts.  Then I could connect the harness wires in their original order on the block.

I am looking to do much the same again.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: tmsmini on July 05, 2017, 03:38:22 PM
It is in pretty bad shape with multiple cracks.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on July 05, 2017, 03:45:04 PM
Terry,

If the jumper wires installed to the back are correct and secure, then it will work fine as I intend to "chop" it down to just that portion and fabricate a cover.

PM me with what you would like for it and an address for sending payment.  I'll provide an address for sending it to.

Cheers,
Michael Playle

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on July 16, 2017, 12:17:04 PM
A bit more done on the 998 engine to make it a bit more complete.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2385)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on July 16, 2017, 12:30:21 PM
I know you weren't planning to, but I really think you should pop this into your current Moke  and put some miles on it to get it sorted, before you start the marathon job of building up the new body - plus the new shell will be in paint for at least a couple of months, in the meantime you can be enjoying your current one....whadya think?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on July 16, 2017, 01:30:11 PM
It has been tempting, but the more I got under the Moke in its current body, the less confident I have become in its structural integrity.

The tail mounts of the front subframe are "secured" with only one of the two bolts (per tail) and those are into remnants of the original floors that do have current floor patches welded to them.

The one front mount of the rear subframe behind the fuel tank (left side) is bolted to a free-hanging remnant of the heel board.  Much of the piece it is supposed to bolt to has rotted away on that side and not been patched to anything.

I have not deeply checked the right side front mount of the rear subframe.

I have been told by a friend following me as I drove it between apartments that it appears to have significant "crabbing" as it goes down the road.  To me it has the feel of body flex as it is driven.

If I did put the 998 into the current body, I would also want to put in the replacement wiring harness - only to have to take it all back out to put in the new body.

Since work has supposedly resumed on the new shell, I have been considering going ahead and beginning to disassemble the current one to refresh/refurbish the subframes.  However, I have been keeping the current shell drivable in order to be able to take it to a couple local paint places for quotes once I know the new shell is on its way to me.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on July 16, 2017, 01:52:08 PM
Here are some annotated pictures of the tails of the front subframe.  I don't have a picture of the heel board from when I had the fuel tank bottom protector plate removed.

I know I should have gotten onto Big-Al about this a while back when I first discovered how bad it really is, but I didn't.  I resolved to make it a project to make it right which led to ordering the new shell.  As many such projects, the scope has grown quite a bit.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2386)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2387)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on July 16, 2017, 02:23:53 PM
Ok, I had forgotten how bad it was......good idea tho to have it available to drive to paint shops for a quote - if you feel safe driving it! Maybe get some welding practice in putting some patches in so things can be bolted up, even if only temporarily. I'll be curious to hear what they say for cost to do the whole shell.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on July 16, 2017, 02:57:43 PM
I feel safe enough for occasional short drives and hitting up a couple places for quotes.  Just not trusting enough for significant driving.

Those gaps highlighted in the pictures are about 1/4 to 1/2 inch.  If I could get the bolts out of the subframe, I could probably fab up a spacer block to bolt through for the issues on the tails of the front subframe.  Not sure about the rear subframe mount issues.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on August 10, 2017, 11:47:42 AM
No real progress on my end, but an update from the folks at M-Parts in the UK.  They say the new body shell is about 95% completed.  It is "supposed" to go to their paint shop for the undercoating and primer next week.

They are still waiting responses on the shipping quotes.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on August 11, 2017, 08:09:41 AM
Are they sending you photos of the build?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on August 11, 2017, 01:37:36 PM
They have sent some.  I haven't uploaded and posted them to the forum.

I have begun compiling together and writing a "Restoration" document to tell the story.  I have the pictures included in that "work in progress".

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on August 11, 2017, 01:53:00 PM
Oooooh, I'd like to read that!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on August 11, 2017, 03:06:57 PM
Dave,

I've tried to upload it to this reply several times, but the connection times out.  With all of the pictures in the document, it is 11.4MB in size already and that is likely too big to upload as an attachment.

Edit:
I tried uploading it to a new album in the media gallery and it won't upload there either.

I can try emailing the draft to anyone interested in proof-reading it.  It is a "work in progress" document meant for eventual printing into a notebook for display at shows.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on August 11, 2017, 03:35:57 PM
I find I have to resize pics if I post more than a couple - I use 600X800.......
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on August 11, 2017, 04:37:10 PM
The pictures are embedded into the MS-Word document (.docx format).

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on August 11, 2017, 05:19:25 PM
Pic settings should automatically resize for you.

1.7mb 3200x1700 test upload.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on August 11, 2017, 05:40:29 PM
It does resize automatically, but if I try to upload more than a few pics at a time it times out, just like Michael said.

When I resize them it uploads instantly.....
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on August 11, 2017, 06:15:15 PM
Unfortunately, it probably can't resize the ones inside the MS-Word document I was trying to attach.

The site also reported a "Flash" error when I tried to upload the document into a fresh album in the media gallery.

Most of the pictures in the document are already in this thread.  I'll upload the pictures I received of the body build and post into this thread.

This thread is more the journal/blog of the whole effort and includes all of the side commentary provided by you guys.  The document is more a "story book" approach with lots of pictures for setting out at shows.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on August 11, 2017, 06:21:41 PM
Pictures of the new Moke body being built.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2396)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2395)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2394)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2393)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2392)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2391)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2390)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2389)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2388)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on August 11, 2017, 09:31:03 PM
Sorry to interrupt again but was looking and docx is an acceptable file to upload.  I will have to test large files to see where it may get hung up. This one was about 3mb.

.docx file link
[smg id=2398 type=av]
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on August 12, 2017, 05:47:58 AM
I tried my 11.4MB file again and I still get a "Connection was reset" timeout error.

So somewhere between 3MB and 11.4MB is a bottleneck.

I'll just try emailing it to anyone interested.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on August 12, 2017, 06:08:00 AM
When I get some time at home I'll test from my computer to figure it out.  File size limits are set pretty high though.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on August 31, 2017, 01:17:52 PM
I got an update from M-Parts (the UK supplier for the body shell).  The new shell is back from the painter and the shipping crate is being assembled.

I am supposed to get some pictures of the finished shell and crating in the next day or so.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on August 31, 2017, 01:44:02 PM
Cool, more progress.....how are they having you pay for this, in chunks or all at once?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on August 31, 2017, 01:54:33 PM
I paid for the shell all at once back in December 2016 when I ordered it.  I asked if I could do so to take advantage of the exchange rate (which has since remained low) and they permitted it.  It was not their usual policy.  They prefer a deposit and final payment upon completion.

I'm waiting for the shipping invoice to pay that as last December was way too early for that component of the purchase.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on August 31, 2017, 02:56:45 PM
It used to be possible to fill up a Mini being shipped RORO from the UK to the US with all sorts of spare parts and merchandise and effectively get 'free' shipping on those goodies.  That went away with 9-11 and now nothing can be placed in the RORO car. 

But... since your Moke body is technically 'parts', I wonder if you could add other stuff to the crate if you wanted to?  Might be a cheap way to get some bulky items imported without paying separate air freight charges.   Just a thought...
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on August 31, 2017, 03:36:29 PM
At one point they mentioned adding other parts to the shipment as well.

I already have a lot of the bits I planned as upgrades and am intending to reuse as much as I can from the current body and mechanicals.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on August 31, 2017, 03:42:04 PM
You could even import things you don't need but could sell to other Mini owners such as wheel/tire combinations.  They probably fit nicely under that empty engine compartment.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on August 31, 2017, 04:20:15 PM
If not in a container I'd be worried about stuff being "acquired" off the docks.......
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on September 03, 2017, 12:58:34 PM
It is supposed to be coming in a crate.  They were supposed to send pictures this past week, but apparently forgot.  I'll send a reminder request tonight or tomorrow morning.

On another note, took the Moke out for a drive to lunch today.  I had to tap the lid of the float to free it and get the fuel flowing from it sitting a while.  It was running fine most of the way to lunch.  Waiting to right-turn-on-red, I had just put it in first and started to rest on the clutch as a car passed so I could turn.  As I began to accelerate for my turn, the exhaust tone suddenly changed and got louder and deeper.  Turns out I blew the pipe apart under the center of the car.

I went ahead to lunch and picking up some groceries on the way back.

I had intended on changing the rear muffler portion during the "restoration".  Now it looks to be the whole system will get changed.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: gr8kornholio on September 03, 2017, 07:15:01 PM
Similar incident recently with my 85 yota pickup.  Started it one morning and thought, dang this thing got kind of throaty.  Separated at the input to the muffler.  Pipe was still in it, but it was coming loose.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on September 03, 2017, 07:28:32 PM
There is normally not a joint in that location where mine broke apart.  The picture came out a bit fuzzy, so it is hard to see the ragged edges where it broke.  I may crawl under tomorrow to check it further and see if it might be worth bothering to fix for a short while before the major work begins and I order something to replace it.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on September 15, 2017, 07:03:09 AM
Finally got some pictures of the completed shell.

Still waiting for it to be crated and shipped.  That was supposed to happen two weeks ago and is now supposed to happen next week.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2401)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2402)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2403)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on September 15, 2017, 07:09:16 AM
Very cool  4.gif
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on September 15, 2017, 08:10:50 AM
Nice progress.  Do they also supply other unique Moke parts such as the speedo surround, windshield frame, top bows, grab handles, seats, and bumpers?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on September 15, 2017, 08:18:43 AM
Bruce,

They do supply almost all of the other unique Moke parts.  I have seen all of the parts you listed on their website.  Their seats I believe are fiberglass reproductions.

They have parts for UK Mokes, Australian Mokes, Portuguese Mokes and the Cagiva Mokes.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on September 15, 2017, 08:22:22 AM
nice to have a 1-stop supplier.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on September 15, 2017, 08:42:50 AM
M-Parts has most everything.

Supposedly, there is another outfit in the UK that also has almost everything for Mokes.  I forget the second company's name.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on September 23, 2017, 12:06:49 PM
Body has not yet shipped - still sorting paperwork for invoicing.

I decided to go ahead and begin stripping the side panels of the old paint to prepare them for being repainted along with the shell after it arrives.  I decided to try using one of the chemical strippers as they are easier to clean up from when living in an apartment.  Below are some pictures from doing one side of two of the side panels.

I also got in one of the later removable grills.  I plan on modifying the front panel by removing the slats and using the removable grill instead - in order to have easier maintenance access to the oil filter and distributor.

Getting ready:

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2404)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2405)


One panel after first treatment - left on only a few minutes.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2406)


Same panel after second treatment (third treatment in progress):

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2407)


First panel after a third treatment, second panel after one longer treatment:

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2408)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2409)

Both panels after another couple of longer treatments with a brief cleaning using water and a "brillo" pad.  I'll do at least one more treatment on that side of each panel to try getting the rest of the original red primer off.  Then I'll do the back sides.  This is after about 1.5 hours of effort.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2410)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2411)


The new grill - unfinished.  It will get painted black to provide a bit of contrast to the bright white.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2412)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on September 23, 2017, 01:05:52 PM
Good progress.  The removable grille came later, an improvement made for the Oz Mokes.  So not usually on an English version.    But I'm sure it's invaluable for gaining access to the points, oil filter, etc.     I still remember struggling with those fun jobs on my '66 Moke that had a fixed grille. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on September 29, 2017, 12:54:18 PM
Progress report time:

The new shell is now in the shipping process.  It was crated last week and picked up for transport to the UK docks the beginning of this week.

A bit more progress on stripping the side panels.  I finished the first two and gave them a coat of primer (although I gummed up a spot on one that I will need to sand down and touch up once fully dried).  I got the top side of two more stripped.  I have the backside of those two to do and then the last side panel to strip.  The side panels will be painted white along with the new body shell.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2413)

I put a coat of primer on the back side of the new removable grill.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2414)

I also got loose all of the passenger grab handles.  I had to use my sawzall to go under the rear two to cut the bolts.  The handles got only a little damage under the bolt tabs, but are good to reuse.  They will also get paint stripped and refinished.  I am considering doing them in black to provide accenting to the white body.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2415)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2416)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 04, 2017, 01:46:17 PM
A bit more progress on the side panel covers.  I have all of them in primer now.  I just have to smooth the front of the last one.  I also have to replace two of the DZUS fasteners on the small oval cover that goes above the battery.  Both the original ones were partly broken.

I stripped, primered and painted the spare tire holder and gas cap.  They came out satisfactory.  I also got the grab handles stripped and coated in primer.  They will get painted black as well.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2417)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2418)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2419)

I got the grill fully primered and painted black.  The back turned out satisfactory, but I need to sand and respray the front - it got some irregularities in the surface as the first coat of black dried.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2420)

I also removed the rear bumper.  I am going to pull the front bumper and then sand and paint both bumpers to matching black with the grab handles and gas cap.  Going with a white with black accents theme.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2421)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on October 09, 2017, 01:38:12 PM
Nice progress! Can really tell you're itching to really get moving on it! Now it only hast to float to you!

FYI for your rear lamps= Factory 'reflectors' are from the Healey Parts bin.  -100 Healey Rear reflectors

https://mossmotors.com/reflector-assembly

My personal opinion = no need to cut out the original grille = The entire assembly is still very serviceable with the grille in place. Oil changes + Distributor + starter work may be the only 'low ' grille items that cause a headache.

M-Parts also sells Factory Phillips bolts for your grab handles + and Dzus Fastener kits plust  have the locking spring that goes in the body for the side panels dzus fastener

http://www.m-parts.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=177&search=grab+handle

http://www.m-parts.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=35_43&product_id=342

http://www.m-parts.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=35_43&product_id=554
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 09, 2017, 02:03:06 PM
I already have a set of the correct factory rear reflectors.

The plan for cutting out the slats of the fixed grill and using a removable grill is precisely for access to the distributor and oil changes.

I know I can order the locking springs for the DZUS fasteners from lots of places.  I can also order the dome style fasteners, just have to work out the correct size and how they get held in place (what retaining clip to use and how it gets installed).

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 14, 2017, 03:08:49 PM
Time for a progress report.  No pictures this time.

The disassembly progresses.  It is up on stands, the old engine is out, the drum brake hubs and axles are out, the truck box is out, the seats are out, the tank protector panel is off, the windshield is off, the jerry can mount is off, the bumpers are off, the hand brake is disconnected, part of the fuel plumbing is removed, the main battery cable is removed.

The side covers have all been stripped and given a coat of primer ready to go to paint with the new body when it is ready.  The new grill is fully painted as are the gas cap, bumpers, grab bars and the radiator mounts from the old engine that are going to be reused on the new engine.  the windshield frame has also been stripped and given a coat of primer ready to go to paint with the new body.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 14, 2017, 03:11:46 PM
When do you think the new one will show up?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 14, 2017, 04:52:40 PM
I tried to find that out this past week.  Richard at M-Parts said he would check with the shipper, but did not get back to me.

I'll probably call them in the morning to try to find out.  (Edit: I meant Monday morning.)

I am hoping by the end of this month.  I am trying to get the old shell fully disassembled fairly soon so I can get it out of the garage for more room to refurbish the subframes and prep the new shell when it arrives.

Since Dan is likely to pass on taking the old shell and I've not heard back from jedduh01, I am most likely just going to scrap it.  As such, the soon I get it fully disassembled, the better.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 18, 2017, 07:11:23 AM
Another update:

The ship with the new shell is scheduled to dock in Houston on the 21st of October.  The customs broker said about a week after that for potential delivery.

The disassembly continues.  I've been progressively backing out the old wiring harness, preserving it and labeling connections as I go.  Basically everything is off the shell from the rear to the firewall - including the rear subframe.  The front of the rear subframe was held in by two 1" badly rusted fragments of the original heal board - 1 on each side.  I did not have to try to remove the front trunion bolts.  When I removed the rear ones and tried lowering the subframe, those two remaining tabs just came apart.

Next is finish the wiring removal, take out the pedal box and drop the front subframe.  Then I get to put the old shell on its side and store away - Hugh Cannon is going to buy it and pick it up in early November.

I also get to see if I can get each of the subframes apart for refurbishing.  The front seems in good shape.  It may be more expedient to get a whole new rear subframe and let someone else work at refurbishing this one - it seems reasonably solid, but the front corners are packed with dirt and such along with rusted bolts covered in black undercoating.

Edit:
I've put a bunch of pictures of the disassembly process up in an album in the media gallery of the forum called "Disassembly" for anyone interested. 


Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 18, 2017, 07:35:09 AM
Michael, you have to be getting really excited to see your new shell arriving so soon!

Who is Hugh Cannon? Reason I ask is you put his name out like we should know him.....

Still a million things to do, but real progress is being made now. The next big phase will come once the body is painted, are you going to stay with your white/black trim scheme or did you decide to go for some color?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on October 18, 2017, 08:14:41 AM
Hugh is a mini guy who does shipping.  He picked up vikrams car and been out to my shop a couple times.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 18, 2017, 03:28:03 PM
Hugh also actually delivered the Moke to me.  He is one of the "Dr Mini" usernames over on Mini Mania.

When he called me about the shell, he mentioned that someone in the KC area had let him know about it and my thread here on this forum.

Today's progress report: the wiring is now completely out along with all the lights, instrument panel, pedal box and front subframe.  The only items still on the old shell to come off are the steering rack and the brake line running from the front to the back.

The front subframe needs the remnants of the toe-board taken off - I had to cut that free as the bolts were just turning and there was no access to them because of the patches.  The front subframe is in good shape and will clean up for reuse. 

The rear subframe is savable, but beyond what I have the tools and capability to do - it is pretty packed up with crud covered in undercoating and rusted mountings for all of the attachments.  I took off the brake proportioning valve and the hand brake cables.  The rest will be offered up for whomever wants it for "make me an offer plus shipping or local pickup".

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 18, 2017, 04:07:49 PM
Wonder if the local guy is Jim Allen, he's the guy I got the 67 Cooper S from......he buys and sells a lot of Minis and Mini stuff.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Willie_B on October 18, 2017, 06:27:52 PM
Hugh got the moke body that I parted out a few years back too. I refused to sell it to him as I did not want any gripes about haw bad it was so I gave it to him.

He is a nice guy to have on your team. Knows his stuff and will do anything to help if he can.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 19, 2017, 12:48:07 PM
It is finally fully stripped and tucked away until Hugh can come pick it up.  Also got the front subframe stripped down and ready for a good cleaning.  It should clean up nicely for reuse.

The shafts of the upper arms looked good too.  The grease on the shaft was clean and clear.  There were no bearing marks in the shaft either.  Those should clean up well for reuse too.  I just have to get the cones and knuckles separated from the trumpets.  I may opt for hi-los instead.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2457)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 19, 2017, 01:11:56 PM
I'm confused, is your old shell coming to KC? I checked with Jim Allen, he says it's not coming to him.....I also found out he has the reamer  for the rear trailing arms if I need to borrow one again, even tho Dan has been very generous with his it's nice to have one local.

My friend Clancy Schmidt (with the race cars I crewed for this summer at Elkhart Lake) has a very rusty Moke he's getting back on the road, wonder if he's taking it?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 19, 2017, 02:19:21 PM
No, it is not going to KC (as far as I know).

Hugh lives over in the Knoxville, Tenn area and he is buying it.

Hugh heard about it from someone in the KC area that read about it on this forum.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 21, 2017, 05:17:53 PM
A little more progress (no pictures):

Yesterday, I got the front subframe scraped down of grime and ready to degrease and pressure wash, scraped the grime off the steering rack and got the old tie-rod ends off for replacing, got the upper arms scraped as well.

Today, I got the pedal box and gauge pod cleaned off (sanding wheel on a die-grinder works wonders removing the old paint) and sprayed with a coat of primer.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 22, 2017, 02:11:14 PM
Today's small progress:

The ship with the new body shell is supposed to have docked in the Houston port yesterday.  I'll try to get an update Monday.

The pedal box and gauge pod are now painted.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2458)


The front subframe and steering rack have been "degreased and washed".  I'll be giving the front subframe a coat of paint this week.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2459)


The axles have been separated from the old drum brake hubs and are ready to put into the disk brake hubs.  Also put the lower radiator mount onto the engine and put on the new motor mount for that side as well.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2460)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on October 22, 2017, 02:37:43 PM
Do you intend to de rust that subby? 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 22, 2017, 03:22:28 PM
Still debating taking it somewhere to be blasted before painting it.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on October 22, 2017, 03:26:03 PM
I wouldn't think it would cost much. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 22, 2017, 03:56:25 PM
If you have a nearby engine builder, they can dip it in their hot tank, mine charged $20 and it came out like new metal.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 22, 2017, 06:29:24 PM
I'm sure in a city the size of San Antonio there is at least one engine builder, but finding a cooperative one may be another matter.

The shop that will be painting the new shell does sandblasting.  I had them do the bumpers for me.  I'll likely drop by there to see if they will do the subframe as well.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on October 22, 2017, 09:15:37 PM
So....  the new body shell is based upon the old MK I two bolt subframe mounts rather than the later single bolt?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 23, 2017, 05:52:55 AM
Bruce,

It is supposed to be based on the early style front subframe.  I'll know for sure in the next week or two.  The ship was supposed to reach Houston on Saturday (10/21).

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 23, 2017, 01:41:57 PM
Sandblasted subframe.  Can I paint it now?

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2461)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 23, 2017, 04:03:25 PM
Looks great, get some primer sealer on it quick.......what did it cost you to have that done?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 23, 2017, 04:13:37 PM
The combined total for it, both bumpers and another small piece was $244.

I plan to primer it tomorrow morning.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on October 23, 2017, 05:05:33 PM
Looks great!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 25, 2017, 07:50:18 PM
Front subframe painted.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2462)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on October 26, 2017, 07:29:58 AM
Great job!   without a doubt worth that blast!

Rear subframe?   buying new or spend lso for a blast?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 26, 2017, 08:14:14 AM
Buying a whole new "complete" rear subframe and suspension/brakes.  The original rear is significantly more crusty than the front was and the mountings for the swing arms and trunnions are totally packed up with crud that was then covered in "undercoating".

I don't have the capability of getting the rear subframe apart to save it.  I'll pass that task along to someone else that does have the tools and capability to save it.  It will get listed in the "for sale" section soon at a bargain.

There are still lots of things that I am finding that are best/easier replaced rather than me trying to refurbish the existing: wiper wheelboxes, front upper arms, front suspension trumpets, ...  Most appear to be the original stuff that has had 50 years of dissimilar metals bonding themselves together and will not come apart with any force I can apply.  That does not mean they can't be separated, just I don't have the means and shops near me don't want to attempt it.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on October 26, 2017, 09:26:09 AM
If you're using stock front suspension trumpets and tie bars I have a couple of each that are like new I'd be happy to contribute for the cost of shipping. I also have some rears that are all cleaned up and ready to use if your new one doesn't come with them.
One of the rears is painted, the other has only been sand blasted....
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 26, 2017, 12:26:21 PM
Thanks for the offer Dave.  I am going fully adjustable suspension, so decided to upgrade to Hi-Los when I could not get the trumpets/knuckles/cones to separate.  The Hi-Lo kit arrived today and I already had the adjustable lower arms and tie bars from a previous parts order.

I will be ordering new upper arms and kit today as the bearings are frozen into the arms.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: pbraun on October 26, 2017, 01:55:16 PM
Subframe looking good.
Pedal box and speedo housing should be body color. I like a black pedal box myself.
Ask Hugh about his Beach Boy Moke.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 26, 2017, 02:34:54 PM
I know the speedo housing is usually body color and I've seen the pedal box both body color and black.

I decided to have both mine black to provide some contrast to the rest of the Moke being bright white.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on October 29, 2017, 02:29:47 PM
A small bit more progress this weekend - worked on refurbishing the fuel tank.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2463)

I had to fabricate some repair pieces for the upper mounts - one at each top, outer corner.  The old ones had their bolts sheared/cut off and were not even being used as there were not holes made in the replacement pontoon top.  The tank was being held in by only the one bolt of the side bracket to the body!

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2464)

I gave the whole tank a generous coat of rust converter.  I will be doing another coat again tomorrow. 

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2465)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2466)

I also have to make a new gasket for the fuel gauge sender and finish the repair to the fuel pickup line inside the tank.  The original strainer and torn and allowed the pipe to clog.  The DPO ( dumb previous owner) solution was to cut the pipe inside the tank, attach a length of hose with a filter attached to the end and drop it into the bottom of the tank.  I got a small filter for in the tank that fits the end of the original pipe (which was still in the tank) and cleaned out that segment of pipe.  I will trim each end of where the DPO cut the pipe and splice with a short length of fuel hose.

That will restore full use of the tank's capacity as the DPO solution left the end of the filter sitting about an inch above the bottom of the tank versus in the pick-up well.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 03, 2017, 11:51:18 AM
Not much to report since last update.

I finished the rehab of the fuel tank.

I finally have a scheduled delivery appointment for the new Moke body shell for Monday afternoon (Nov 6th).

The old engine is on its way to a new owner (Dan Viola up in NY) and the spare transmission from the 998 should be getting delivered to Dan in Tulsa today.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on November 03, 2017, 01:03:45 PM
Is Dan on our forum?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 03, 2017, 02:17:01 PM
I don't think Dan Viola is on this forum.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 03, 2017, 02:39:15 PM
Sounds like the tranny was delivered.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 03, 2017, 03:02:16 PM
Online tracking says it was delivered to the address provided.

19.gif

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 03, 2017, 03:11:13 PM
The office sends me a text when I get a package. It's pretty nice having people gather my mail and notifying me!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 06, 2017, 06:24:13 PM
I got a slightly late birthday present today (birthday was Halloween)!

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2467)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2468)


Started unpacking it as well.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2472)


They did include the exhaust system and tank protector plate "complimentary" for being patient with the considerable delays in its completion.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2475)


Disassembling the crate is a bit of a jigsaw puzzle in reverse.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2478)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2479)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2480)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Willie_B on November 06, 2017, 06:43:49 PM
GREAT. Can't wait for your thoughts on the workmanship of the body.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: gr8kornholio on November 06, 2017, 06:48:39 PM
Now that's a present to unwrap!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on November 06, 2017, 08:16:26 PM
Worth waiting for!   Looks very nice.   Now comes the fun of building it. 

If it were me no way could I cut that grille out of that pristine front sheet metal.  Have you considered just leaving it intact like an original English Moke?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 06, 2017, 08:43:17 PM
Happy birthday!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 06, 2017, 09:54:31 PM
Bruce,

This is not the best of pictures of the new grill for it - it is propped against the black truck box - but should give an idea of the look I am going for.  Also, the extra room to access the front of the engine for oil/filter changes and timing the distributor was an important factor to me.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2424)

It was a hard decision to make in going with cutting out the slats.  I plan to leave the vertical ribs for additional support.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 07, 2017, 12:11:42 PM
The new body is now unpacked from the crate and onto my body dolly.

The build quality seems very good.  There are a few holes that did not get drilled.  Several of them are where two panels overlap and one panel has the holes pre-drilled and the other does not.  Others are where items may have varied from the factory and would require the parts I am using in order to place the holes (such as the wiper motor mounting holes).  That all will be taken care of as I test fit various things before it goes to paint.

The primer quality is a bit weak in a few spots, but again, an easy touch up fix before going to paint.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2481)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2482)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2483)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 07, 2017, 08:43:37 PM
Remember my concern was primer quality. Is it pulling off with the tape trick?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 07, 2017, 09:48:29 PM
Some rubbed off at places they put towels under where wood could contact the shell, a couple thin places lifted when I put blue painter's tape on it to mark the position of a missing hole.

Am I likely to need the whole shell stripped and recoated in primer before having it painted?

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 08, 2017, 04:45:37 AM
Yeah you really need to have it stripped, then a proper sealer/bare metal primer applied.

If I was in the panel and shell bussiness I'd spend the extra $20 per shell for a primer that actually adheres for my customers.  As a painter, anything lifting easily is not something I trust to paint over.   
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on November 08, 2017, 09:00:49 AM
That is awesome = looks great!

Would you care to share the full cost? we all wonder what a "shell" costs to get to the USA - Even like ones  From Heritage or from M -Parts , now you've actually done it!

Any surprises.. any FYI for the full process to share?

Of course if you don't want to fully reveal  = understood.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 08, 2017, 10:07:53 AM
I don't mind sharing the information.  I will have to compile it, so will post it a bit later.

Edit:

Here are the cost breakdowns I incurred:
New shell = £5995 (UKP)
Shipping = £1204.43 (UKP)
US Customs broker fees & Duties = $325.83 (USD)
Final truck delivery fee (liftgate) = $144.55 (USD)

Surprises across the full process (supplier related):
a) Several construction delays
b) Communication of status and delays could have been better
c) Several mounting holes not pre-drilled as would have been expected - front panel to subframe, front subframe tail mounts to body, tail light mounting screw holes, one of the wiper wheelbox mounting holes in the wrong location (this may be due to the different style wiper systems that were used), wiper motor mounting holes (again - system specific, so easily forgiven).
d) Primer quality in some areas lacking - fails Dan's "tape test".
e) Overspray on one side from the "stone chip" coating applied to the bottom of the shell


Overall opinion so far:
Still VERY pleased with the resulting shell.  I definitely think it will be worth having chosen this route.


The next couple of things deal with the shipping process once out of the hands of M-Parts (the supplier) and deal with the delivery experience:

Attention to delivery details and requirements needed to be better to ensure accurate quote and arrangements. 
a) The shipment was always to be to a residence, they "missed" that at initial processing on the US end and left it off the delivery instructions at one point and only "discovering" the fact when I was directly contacting them to be sure it was cleared.
b) The shipment is also considered "oversized" (basically 10'x5'x3') for normal delivery services and typical residential delivery trucks liftgates are not big enough.  The shipping contacts all along the way overlooked that, so selected a "standard liftgate" option for the delivery method.  Only when they saw the crate in front of them did they "suddenly" realize they had a problem.
c) They tried to make their misquote of final delivery method into my problem.  They wanted to either have me come get it with a trailer or find an alternate location with a loading dock.  (Never offered any refund of delivery fees as part of those arrangements.)  I had to stand firm on requiring them to deliver it to me as that was what I paid for and it was not my fault they didn't read what was in front of them on the shipment details before assigning a delivery method.
d) They still ended up trying to deliver it via a standard liftgate truck.  We had to use my engine hoist and a strap to hold up the one end as they got the other onto the liftgate and lower both in a coordinated manner to get it off the truck without incident.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 08, 2017, 04:39:16 PM
Not a bad price for brand new.

At a minimum take a high powered pressure washer to the primer and blast off the loose stuff.  I'd be tempted to sand down the front end areas that get hit with direct wind force when driving too.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Willie_B on November 08, 2017, 04:50:10 PM
The basic shell is about 600 GBP more now than when you ordered. Overall still looks like not a bad deal when factoring in not doing all the work to fix the old shell.

I may be ordering one soon myself then.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 09, 2017, 06:11:16 PM
Willie_B,

I think the website price is the same as when I requested a quote.  When they gave me the quote and invoice, it was the lower price.  I didn't argue.

A bit of progress today in preparing the new shell with necessary "mods".  I discovered yesterday that the tail light holes did not have the tiny holes for the mounting screws.  Those got done today along with the holes for the jerry-can mount, the truck box mounting holes and associated relocating holes for part of the rear seats. 

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2484)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2485)

Also, I did the holes for the wiper motor mounting, fuse box, and voltage regulator.  I relocated the one wheelbox hole, test fit the front subframe and completed its mounting holes, finished the front bumper mounting points and put in rivet-nuts for the side covers.  I decided to go with rivet nuts instead of dzus fasteners.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2486)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2487)

And lastly, I did commit sacrilege: I cut out the slats of the front grill for the desired access.  The next picture is the result, the last is the fitting of the removable grill.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2488)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2489)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on November 09, 2017, 07:53:15 PM
I would have done the grill too.....
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 09, 2017, 08:44:48 PM
I like the grill too.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 12, 2017, 12:04:40 PM
No pictures of today's progress. 

I had a friend helping me.  We finished the test fitting of the fuel tank, lights and tank protector panel.  Made a few adjustments to some holes and the notches on the protector panel for getting things to fit nicely.

After that we sanded the complete topside of the body to remove blemishes and the "pimples" of the overspray of the stone-chip undercoating.  Got all of the blemmishes out and all the loose primer removed.  We then hosed it down and gave it a good soap and water wash to remove the dust and any remaining grease or oil residue.  Rinsed it thoroughly until there were no soap bubbles and then rinsed it again for extra measure.  We then towel dried the complete topside and put it away to finish drying.  It will get a complete coat of new primer tomorrow.

The new rear subframe (complete) is supposed to arrive at the Austin airport Tuesday.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 12, 2017, 12:14:48 PM
Good to hear you worked on that primer.  Take very long to do? Worried about flash rust?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 12, 2017, 12:25:58 PM
Today's efforts took about 3 hours with the two of us working on it at the same time.

I'm not too worried about flash rust.  I will check it a bit later this afternoon to be sure.  I wanted it to be thoroughly dry before putting the new primer on it.

Edit:  All of the sanding was by hand with the 3M sanding sponges.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 12, 2017, 12:37:51 PM
Also, what type of primer are you intending to apply?  Just want to make sure you get it right!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 12, 2017, 02:29:41 PM
I'm applying Rustoleum Automotive primer.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 12, 2017, 03:01:52 PM
Ideally you'd spray a 2k epoxy on bare metal.  It seals out moisture and adheres like no ones bussiness. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 13, 2017, 03:30:34 PM
Got it fully sprayed in fresh primer and then rubbed down with 000 steel wool today.  Now to let it sit a couple days before arranging to take it to the paint shop.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 15, 2017, 01:46:53 PM
The new rear subframe arrived in Austin yesterday.  Drove up with a friend in his pickup and got it today.  It is all shiny and pretty!

Edit: Added the picture below.  I will also be adding adjustable rear camber/toe brackets.  It came with Hi-Los (with the grease fitting)!  I also have to swap over to the old handbrake cables as the Mokes use specific ones rather than the standard Mini ones.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2490)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on November 15, 2017, 02:13:10 PM
Wow.  That's the complete deal.  Looks very nice all shiny and new. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 15, 2017, 05:09:23 PM
Looks nice and clean!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 16, 2017, 05:48:33 PM
The body is scheduled to go to the paint shop tomorrow morning.

Today, I got it ready and then worked on the rear subframe: added the adjustable camber/toe brackets, replaced the simple 'T" connector with the limiting valve from the old subframe, and swapped over the handbrake cables. 

Hopefully I did not create a leak in the hard brake lines at the connections to the limiting valve.

Next on the rear subframe will be test fitting the desired new muffler box to get the mounting points set.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2491)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2492)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2493)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 21, 2017, 08:11:48 AM
Got the "dry fit" of the desired muffler done.  Working on putting the engine into the front subframe and building that up to be ready to install from bottom up.  I've got to order the stuff for redoing the brake lines on the subframe.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2494)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on November 21, 2017, 08:35:22 AM
I like the 'dual' exhaust!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 21, 2017, 08:52:16 AM
Yeah the exhaust is cool.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on November 21, 2017, 10:12:09 AM
It always bugs me when I see a guy using a claw hammer to work on a car - claw hammers are for nails, which are a lot softer than punches and drifts - go down to Harbor Freight and buy some ball peen hammers - made to hit hard metal objects (as well as thumbs and other body parts  ;D )

(Right, Dan?)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 21, 2017, 10:23:09 AM
Haha.  I used a claw hammer for years.  Occasionally it's still handy depending on what I'm doing.  I will say though it's nice having a various selection of ball peen hammers.  I have a claw hammer hanging by my paint mixing station for closing can lids.   
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 21, 2017, 03:02:19 PM
Engine mounted to the subframe today.  Also worked at figuring out brake line stuff to order.  I'm going with braided lines instead of the copper hard lines, including the ones at the limiting valve on the rear subframe.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2496)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: gr8kornholio on November 25, 2017, 09:56:46 AM
Looking good.  I can now see the difference in the subframe tower mounts and why the dry one needs the spacers.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 25, 2017, 11:01:40 AM
The current efforts:

Laying out the new bits for rebuilding the front suspension.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2497)

Sorting the new wiring harness in comparison to the old harness.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2498)

Edit:
Not shown are the rear sub-harness for the fuel pump and tail lights and the work on the sub-harness for the new electronic speedometer.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 26, 2017, 06:28:52 PM
Got the main harness and speedometer harness all done today.  Even put them into the gauge pod.  I just have the wiper switch and its sub-harness to sort and the new oil pressure and water temperature gauges to install for finishing that as a "sub-assembly" ready for the new body when it is ready.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2499)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 27, 2017, 04:51:36 PM
A bit more "electrical" progress today.  I got the gauge pod basically finished up - wiper switch wired and installed, extra gauges added and their lights wired in, and a power port attached (for phone charger and GPS).

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2500)

Also did test fitting and filing of the electronic speed sensor for fitting it to the transmission (no picture) and installed one front suspension upper arm.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2501)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 29, 2017, 04:43:08 PM
Some more progress today.

Got the steering rack refurbished - removed the old boots, greased the knuckles, installed new boots and clamps, cleaned the threads of both ends, and installed new steering knuckle ends (pivot pins).

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2502)

Also worked on the front suspension - got the other side upper arm installed and the full hub assembly for the first side installed.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2503)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2504)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on November 29, 2017, 05:03:59 PM
Great progress.  I'm sure it's going to be a real pleasure to put all these clean shiney pieces on a freshly painted body shell.   

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 29, 2017, 05:57:31 PM
I sure hope so.

One thing that will be a challenge is putting the engine and front subframe into the car as a single assembly from the bottom up (factory style).  The tail of the magic wand shifter was a pain in the ass to get out pulling just the engine from the top.  I'm hoping going bottom up as a complete assembly will be a bit easier.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on November 29, 2017, 06:05:18 PM
You need to borrow my gantry crane for that!  Or get 4 strong guys to grab each corner.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 29, 2017, 07:13:31 PM
It will probably turn out to be a combination of two guys and an engine hoist with several ratchet straps.  A real "circus" in the making.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on November 30, 2017, 01:07:02 PM
Dropping the body on is a great way to go!   ends up surprisingly Easy!

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on November 30, 2017, 01:36:41 PM
Jedduh01,

Thank you VERY much for the visual of the process!  I had not thought to mount the front bumper and use it as the lift point for the hoist.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on January 24, 2018, 12:26:34 PM
Not much progress to report.  The body has been in the shop for the "roll bar"/top support, new top and painting since late November.  They did not get it into the work schedule until this month.

The top support has been made (similar to the one for the Portuguese Mokes) and is off to be powder coated as of Monday.  The top and paint got delayed for different reasons: upholstery guy has been out with the flu, their good paint guy left to become a ski-lift operator back at the end of November, the replacement guy was not working out and got let go last week (before the Moke came due for painting) and they have not yet got another replacement painter.

I did try cleaning up the awful "gold" paint from the brake master cylinder only to discover a pin-hole leak in the bottom of the reservoir.  I went ahead and ordered new master cylinders for both the brakes and clutch.  I went with the plastic reservoir ones for cost savings.  I'll do another thread for reference on bleeding those.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on January 24, 2018, 12:55:21 PM
Time and money on a project always seems to take longer and cost more than expected.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on January 24, 2018, 01:43:03 PM
Dan,

I went into this one fully prepared for the "time & money" aspect.  I had built up and set aside a significant fund for this project and I have not yet used it up.  The "out of my control" delays can be frustrating, but I have also expected to run into plenty of them and am not on a specific time schedule.

It is all the finding little things as I try to refurbish original parts for reuse. 

Until I cleaned up the master cylinders, the pin-hole leaks were clogged with gunk/paint/debris and went unnoticed.

Since I am making a number of "upgrades" from original, I saw no reason to spend nearly double for the replacement metal can masters over the plastic reservoir ones.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on January 24, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Good! I will say anything hydraulic related I don't bother trying to refurb. New masters, wheel cylinders, and all rubber gets replaced.  Because if it's not a pin hole leak now it will be one 3 months from now or seals that won't hold pressure.  Then you're right back upside down trying to fit the pins on the pedals. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on January 24, 2018, 06:15:28 PM
The brake system is now going to be entirely new from the pedal clevis pin onward (clevis pin, master cylinder, lines, connectors, new disk assemblies in front, to new everything in the rear).



Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on January 24, 2018, 06:28:00 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on January 24, 2018, 06:15:28 PM
The brake system is now going to be entirely new from the pedal clevis pin onward (clevis pin, master cylinder, lines, connectors, new disk assemblies in front, to new everything in the rear).

Sounds perfect for a car with brand new almost everything else.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: tennmoke on January 26, 2018, 10:55:31 AM
This was my procedure to lower my shell onto the front subframe assembly.  Worked well.  Used eye bolts in the rear shock towers and front master cylinder holes.  Hopes this helps.  Mark
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on January 26, 2018, 11:49:45 AM
TennMoke,

That is the approach I had been trying to figure out, but had not yet gotten sorted.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on February 04, 2018, 01:30:08 PM
Update on the shop's work on the Moke: it is looking like I may get it back the end of this coming week.  They were working on the top this past Thursday and Friday.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on February 04, 2018, 01:31:35 PM
You have to be getting excited to get it back and start the assembly process!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on February 04, 2018, 01:41:36 PM
 My daughter reports that it's 80° today in San Antonio.  (!).  So if that keeps up you'll have some pretty nice weather for the build.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on February 24, 2018, 03:45:55 PM
It is finally all done at the shop.  I am scheduled to pick it up and bring home on Monday.  Then the "fun" of re-assembly begins.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on February 24, 2018, 03:50:06 PM
Exciting!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on February 26, 2018, 03:20:33 PM
Pictures of the painted shell and "roll bar" after bringing it home.  The "roll bar" acts as the support for the new top similar to the Portuguese and Cagiva Mokes.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2512)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2513)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2514)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2515)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Willie_B on February 26, 2018, 04:06:35 PM
Nice rollbar setup. Custom or available somewhere? I just started looking to see what's out there for one.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on February 26, 2018, 04:33:33 PM
Custom "roll bar" and top.  I had it made to be similar to the late model Portuguese or Cagiva ones.

I decided to go with that style too late to add it to my order of the new body.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on February 27, 2018, 08:09:53 AM
Looks like it came out nice.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on February 28, 2018, 05:04:07 PM
Started the reassembly today.  I have the steering rack in place, the front bumper mounted (for lifting the body to slide the engine & front subframe under), the front upper shock mounts installed, the rear wiring harness installed, and the tail lights installed and connected.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2516)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2517)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 01, 2018, 12:35:08 PM
Today's progress: a) slid the engine/front subframe underneath the engine bay, ready for lifting into place Saturday; b) installed the rear subframe and ran the front-to-rear brake line (including body grommets); c) went back and added body grommets for the rear wiring harness.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2518)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2519)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on March 01, 2018, 12:44:16 PM
Leaving the heritage stickers on?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 01, 2018, 02:06:27 PM
Did not pay attention to them being there.  Since it is in place, I guess they stay on.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 03, 2018, 08:20:35 PM
Some more progress: I've been working primarily from the back of the Moke moving forward.

1) Rear bumper mounted, "Jerry Can" frame with the rear license plate mounted, truck box mounted, seat belts installed and rear seats installed.

2) Engine and front subframe lifted into place and mounted.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2520)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2521)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2522)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on March 03, 2018, 08:27:35 PM
It's coming along very nicely. It won't be too long before you are enjoying it in the great spring weather
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on March 03, 2018, 08:46:42 PM
Going to be on the road in no time.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 05, 2018, 07:03:59 PM
A bit more:
1) Grab handles installed.
2) Hand brake handle installed, pedals installed.
3) Wiper motor and wheelbox assembly installed.
4) Master cylinders installed with remaining hydraulic lines in place.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2523)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2524)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2525)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2526)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 07, 2018, 08:23:07 AM
Yesterday's progress:
1) Steering column installed and the steering wheel centered with the centered steering rack.  (Ready for attaching the rack ends to the hubs.)
2) Hand brake cables attached to handle.
3) Instrument binnacle installed with wiring fed through to engine bay.
4) Beginning to route the harness throughout the engine bay and hook everything up.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2527)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2528)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on March 07, 2018, 08:46:22 AM
Wow, Michael you are really flying! Can't wait to hear it run, be sure to take some video.....
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on March 07, 2018, 09:34:37 AM
Great work!

Impressed with the 'rather full braided Brake and clutch line Kit=  Tidy!  I didn't realize those all existed for LHD mini's !


Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 07, 2018, 10:35:11 AM
Being that my contracting work is extremely slow right now, I have been able to devote big chunks of time to getting the Moke back together.

The braided flex lines from the masters to the clutch slave and first brake 'T' are from Mini Spares.  They have them for both RHD and LHD (same one for clutch is being used for the brake).  I carefully measured and ordered the rest of the braided lines for the entire system from JEGS online.  I spent a few days measuring and planning the components to order to do braided lines pretty much everywhere.

Unfortunately, I do not have an easy means of doing video.  I use an old digital camera and my cell phone is an older style flip-phone that does not do video.  The camera does have a video mode, but I have not learned anything about it - just the basic taking pictures.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: tmsmini on March 07, 2018, 08:33:49 PM
The latest Goodridge hoses are also coated which is really nice. I resorted to cover the ones I have used in the past. Are the JEGS versions coated?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 08, 2018, 07:50:01 AM
JEGS carries from several suppliers as well as their "house" brand.  Some are coated, most are not.  The lengths I needed/used were not available in the coated lines.  I have new grommets in all body holes the lines go through.  I also routed and zip-tied the lines in manners to avoid rubbing.  I am also putting some covering over the lines in any place were possible rubbing cannot be avoided.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 11, 2018, 04:31:22 PM
Status update:

Some more of the "little" things done. 

The tail end is now "finished" - the spare tire cover, jerry can, and "Moke" decal in place.  I need to do another adjustment on the rear brakes and check it after setting the hand brake.  I still have not yet filed the lines with brake fluid - on next week's list.

I also finished up the "interior" - front seats installed, oil pressure gauge line connected, wiper motor power connected, shifter and boot installed.

I am now working on the ancillaries and hook ups in the engine bay.  Made the test fit of the carb and filter.  I need to get a thinner carb-to-manifold spacer.  The one I have is the ~1/2" alloy one and makes the filter hit the firewall right where the oil pressure line, water temp capillary tube and speedometer line go through.  I need to get one of the ~1/4" ones (or have the spare alloy one I have milled down in thickness).

I do have all the front lights installed and wired, the starter installed, the distributor installed, the alternator installed, the oil filter filled and installed, and the oil pressure switch/gauge line adapter installed.  I still need to hook the pressure gauge line to the adapter and install the pressure switch - then I will have both the gauge and indicator light.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2529)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2530)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2531)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2532)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2533)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 12, 2018, 04:50:39 PM
No new pictures today.  Spent part of the day at actual work instead of the Moke.

Moke progress was limited to trying to solve the issue of the air filter clearance with the firewall.  I ordered a thinner spacer from 7Ent as a backup.  I found a local shop that would mill the spare alloy one down to 0.30" for me.  That helped quite a bit - I can mount the carb with the filter on.  However, it still is barely touching the grommet on the opening where the speedometer wires, temp capillary tube and oil pressure tube go through the firewall.  Time to find a thin pancake filter.

I found two possibilities at MiniSpares.  One is a K&N at 1.75" tall (would give about 1/4" additional clearance) and the other is a foam type at 1" tall.  I decided to go with ordering the thinner of the two for the most clearance.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on March 12, 2018, 05:06:39 PM
One thing to consider is whether or not the 1 inch tall will fit the  small k&n stub stack to round out the sharp edges leading into the intake.  A real performance killer otherwise over just staying with a stock box and angled throat.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 12, 2018, 07:22:29 PM
I have an angled throat, but not a stock air box.  I had not planned on running a stub-stack, so have not ordered one.

The HS4 carb & manifold I ordered a long while back as an upgrade to the original HS2 on the 850 came with a K&N cone filter.

I'm going to judge the clearance the PF102A from MiniSpares provides versus to reported height of the K&N pancake filter.  Two of the PF102A filters with shipping from the UK were still slightly cheaper than one K&N pancake filter ordered direct from K&N.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on March 12, 2018, 07:38:19 PM
Just looked at the 1" pancake and now realize that's the fancy looking ones that come with most dual carbs. They won't fit the stub stacks, but the metal plates can be retained and you can ditch the foam for a K&N E-3200.  The filter cost $35 and the stub stack just under $20.  Of course if nothing fits the bulkhead it's all for nothing.  I just know that Vizard and Calver both show losses with the sharp edges on the leading edges.  Food for thought.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on March 12, 2018, 07:39:39 PM
My car has a K&N, but it's cone shaped rather than pancake, gives more room in a regular car.....
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on March 12, 2018, 07:44:59 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on March 12, 2018, 07:39:39 PM
My car has a K&N, but it's cone shaped rather than pancake, gives more room in a regular car.....

I want to say the offset on those is different than the pancakes but don't quote me.  They sure do look nice though.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 13, 2018, 08:34:57 AM
That is the same cone filter that came with the new carb.  The bulkhead on the MK-II Moke is not as recessed as for the Saloon and even with the thinner spacer between the carb and manifold, the filter just barely touches the grommet

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Jimini II on March 13, 2018, 11:16:29 AM
The MG Metro intake works well for clearance problems.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 13, 2018, 02:28:13 PM
I am running the factory stock joined intake/exhaust manifold and a mostly stock exhaust system: stock Moke/998 main pipe with a dual tip back box.

I'll see how the pancake filters turn out.  I may opt for an adjustable engine steady to push the engine forward slightly more and go back to the K&N cone if the thin pancake filters don't do the trick.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Jimini II on March 14, 2018, 07:13:17 AM
If you decide to use an adjustable engine steady you will need a flex joint in the exhaust down pipe other wise it will start blowing and usually crack around the flange area. With the adjustable stabilizer it may look weird where the radiator meets the cowl. The thinner pancake filters restrict the flow moreso than the one you have.
Another option would be to move the engine mounting points forward as they did on the 90's 1275 HIF carbed Mini's.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on March 14, 2018, 07:21:57 AM
Just another suggestion...

Loose the cork gasket from the filter base to the Carb.
  ( you could cut a basic Paper thinner gasket if you ReALLY want one in there)

This will also require modification of the filter base == That big screw that's touching the Dashpot TTOP cover  will need to go.
I previously have welded the filter stud on the inside of the fiilter base   and then remove the screw.

This will gain you a few mm.


Longer engine steady = perhaps just a little bit. =  but like mentioned will angle engine more + shifter hole will be affected along with the  angle of exhaust + others if its cranked out too much.( axle angles too)

In the end = fresh bushings all way around the top of the motor barely moves.  you just need a Tiny Bit of clearance to keep what you have.

Can you route the offending  Oil Hose DOWN more  along with the other items.. 'shifting them  out of the way?

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 14, 2018, 07:40:31 AM
It is already all new steady bushings and motor mounts.

I have a thinner filter-to-carb gasket.  The thick head for the filter stud was the concern.  I can look to see if I have or can find something smaller.

Rerouting the lines for the oil pressure and water temp gauges is not an option at this point.  I would have to undo too much to back them out of that passage hole and through the same hole as the main wiring harness (which does not have much spare space for extra lines).

The thinner pancake filters are scheduled to arrive Thursday.  I'll see what I can sort in the meantime.

Thanks.



Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 14, 2018, 02:31:42 PM
Thanks for the suggestion on changing out the center shaft arrangement of the K&N filter and going to a paper-thin gasket between the filter and carb.  A trip to the hardware store got a 10-32x2" pan-head machine screw and nuts and it worked nicely.  It is still tight, but I have a couple mm clearance now, so it is not touching the lines or grommet.

I will keep the thin pancake filters as "backup" arrangements if there proves to be a problem later.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 14, 2018, 06:19:21 PM
It is looking more and more like I will make my self-imposed deadline of having the Moke on the road by the end of March.

As posted earlier, your collective suggestions on the air filter arrangement will let me use the K&N cone filter.

Other progress today included installing the main pipe of the exhaust from the manifold to just behind the front seats.  I also hung the rear muffler to determine the length of connecting pipe needed.  I also got my DIY pressure bleeder working and filled/bled both hydraulic systems.  I will be letting them settle overnight and then bleeding them again.  I did have one slight leak in the whole system - I did not have the banjo bolt for the break light switch at the right front wheel as tight as it should be and it leaked.  Tightened it further and no more leak.

The battery has been on the charger and this evening switched to fully charged.  In the next day or two, I will hook it up and do a check of the the electrical systems and crank it for an oil pressure check as well.  Then it will be finish the fuel connections, align it and it should be done.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on March 14, 2018, 07:52:03 PM
Great progress!  Question about your seats: so do you have the seat cushions ready to go too?    Or are you still sorting those things out?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 14, 2018, 10:27:12 PM
I have the seat cushions ready - need a bit of cleaning from being stored on a garage shelf while doing the rest of the work.

I'm using the same seat cushions that came with it.  They were newly made shortly before I got the Moke and are black with white piping.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 17, 2018, 04:38:40 PM
Very minor, but important progress: primed the oil pump last night and again late this afternoon.  I now have oil pressure!  It reaches 62psi cold from just cranking on the starter.

I tried wrestling with putting the windshield and new seals into the frame - no success.  At least nothing got broken except my ambition.

Yesterday, I got the exhaust finished and almost all of the electrical systems checked.  I had to troubleshoot a couple of items: a) one rear tail light socket operates backward based on the wire colors - swapped them at the bullet connectors for that light connecting to the harness; b) one front turn/park light needed some work - needed a better ground by removing some of the paint under one of the mounting screws, needed the pig-tail wiring replaced as it had failed splices hidden in it.

I still need to test the fuel pump and make sure the hydraulic brake light switch is working.  The brake lights themselves work - tested by touching the lines that go to the switch together.  Headlights and turn signals also work fine.  Even the wiper motor works as before - single speed with park.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on March 19, 2018, 06:10:57 AM
Keep it up!

I totally know the pain of the windshield gaskets.
Few tips

Use lube == Soapy water = good =   KY Jelly = is better!

I used a BIG open area on the floor... Ratcheting straps are key to helping PULL everhting in and together as needeed.  Use a few all around the frame.. Help settle the seals in place . Work slowly =  Compress it = walk away =   Compress some more  walk away... Eventually it will compress more and more and you will be able to use line up pins to get the bottom bolts in the bottom rail.

I cracked mine on disassembly.  Luckily  Moke windshields are FLAT and glass cutters, custom glass makers in the US Can remake a glass for about 200$ pretty easily.

Make sure the rivets  / screws dont protrude into the frame too far too on the inside= Keeping the seal from compressing properly.


Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 19, 2018, 06:52:27 AM
Getting the seals into the frame has not been an issue.  Only the glass into the seals.

The top fasteners are still the originals.  I did not remove them from the frame when refinishing it, so I don't think their rivets should be an issue either.

I got some lashing straps to use to doing the compressing per an article I found on an Aussie Moke forum.

Going to be trying again with a helper today.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 19, 2018, 12:16:42 PM
Disappointment today.

We got to about 1/2" from having the windshield fully seated when it popped a crack.

Time to find a local glass shop to cut a replacement.

We did get the brakes and clutch bled again.  No air from the clutch.  Some from the brakes.  Brake pedal feels okay - first push has more travel before feeling firm, second push of a slight "pump" motion firms right up.  I may need to do one more bleeding session on the brakes.

Just need to make sure I have my set of instructions for dialing in the carb handy and tackle that and the timing.  Then it should be ready to try firing up.

Once that is done, I'll drop it from the stands and set to doing the alignment.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on March 19, 2018, 12:54:26 PM
BUMMER.

https://www.vintageglass.com/

Who i sourced a glass from. I THINK i still even have my template.... a piece of wrapping paper = and the old glass traced on the paper  send to them for the size + cut.

(per their site (free shipping on flat glass)  Arrived in about 2 weeks= Proper laminated windscreen glass.



 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 19, 2018, 02:08:55 PM
Thanks for the link.  I found a local place that will cut one and install into the frame for me.  It will be ready either tomorrow afternoon or early Wednesday.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 21, 2018, 05:34:00 PM
Planning on trying to fire it up tomorrow and do the timing and carb tuning.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2534)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2535)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 22, 2018, 12:52:06 PM
All back together and down off the dolly/stands ready for doing the alignment!

It pretty much fired right up with a bit of choke.  Got the timing set for 8* BTDC at 1000 rpm per the manual for a later 998 with HS4 carb.  Good oil pressure and smooth idle.

Went to do the carb adjusting and I think I may need different needle.  I currently have an AAT in the carb.  I filled the dashpot with 3-In-1 oil.

When trying to follow the directions on the sucarb.co.uk site for tuning it, I have to richen it way up before it begins to plateau at about 2100 rpm at which point there is not enough adjustment in the mixture screw to bring the idle back down.  I have to lean it back out to just a little before it stalls for the mixture screw to have any effect.

The tuning data in the manual for the later 998 indicates an ABX needle should be used which by the charts appears to be a slightly richer needle.

I'll look at the spare HS4 that came with the engine to see what needle it has.  Any suggestions?  Tuning the carb and the alignment are all that remains.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2536)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2537)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2538)

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2539)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on March 22, 2018, 01:07:05 PM
Fantastic!  4.gif.   I have the same green gas can in my shop.  Keep it full of fuel, if it's partial and temps change it deforms pretty badly.  Did you ever get the pancake filter to try?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 22, 2018, 01:24:21 PM
I got the pancake filters.  Mounting one to the carb, then attempting to install the carb would not work - hit the firewall.  The taper of the K&N gave the clearance to slip the car onto the studs.

I could have tried with the pancake filter disassembled and only the backplate on the carb, but re-assembling the pancake filter in place would have been a pain-in-th-***.
The steel mesh surrounding the foam filter has sharp edges and catches on everything.

The spare carb had an ADE needle installed and had an AAP and another AAT along with it.

I may consult the tech guys at 7Ent to see what they say.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on March 22, 2018, 01:30:58 PM
Minidave just bought a book on needles, maybe he can advice what to try.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on March 22, 2018, 01:56:37 PM
I do have that book, but I haven't really looked at it - all it seems to be is a list of every needle ever used on an SU! But first, you do know that this carb has an idle speed screw as well as the mixture screw, right?

I'm a little confused by your description, once you get the mixture right, you adjust the idle speed with the idle speed screw - it's not a bleed screw, rather it controls how far the throttle plate is open.

Turn the mixture screw on the left side of the carb (as you face it) in to richen, out to lean, the opposite of most carbs. The idle speed screw is located on the right side (as you face the engine) near the baseplate.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 22, 2018, 02:41:17 PM
Dave,

The carb is a HS4.  External float to the left as you face the engine from in front of the car.

The jet is the red non-waxstat underneath the main body with the spring loaded hex nut to adjust.  There are two other adjusting screws: the idle/mixture screw (in a recess on the right front directly above the throttle cable attachment) and the high-speed idle screw (pushed on by the choke cam to open the throttle plate).

I am referring to adjusting the main jet and the idle/mixture screw. 

I am not focusing on the high-speed idle screw yet.  (I actually have it spaced pretty close for where the SU Carb site says it should get actuated by the choke cam.)

I started with the main jet set 2 full turns below the bridge and the mixture screw 1.5 turns in from just touching the throttle as per the directions.

Got the car started with that and adjusted the mixture/idle screw to get the 1000rpm.  Then set the timing for 8* BTDC.  Then went back to adjust the carb - main jet and mixture as per the directions.

The directions in my orange service manual differ a bunch from the directions on the sucarb.co.uk website.  I've used the website directions before for a HIF carb just fine.


Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on March 22, 2018, 02:52:46 PM
I thought it was an HIF38.......sounds like you know what you're doing.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 22, 2018, 07:42:16 PM
Spoke with Jack at 7Ent.  He said they only used the "lift pin" method, which matches what is in my orange service manual.  The "lift pin" method sets the idle base, and from there they do test drives to see how the car responds.

Going to reset to base and redo the carb tune tomorrow trying the "lift pin" method.  Have to wait on the driving until after getting the alignment done.

Played around with comparing the needle profiles of the needles 7Ent has available to compare The AAT in the carb to others available.  I had to do it manually by entering the needle profiles into Excel by hand as the one comparison site is still not working again.  At least the other site is still able to display the profile data.  I'll see how it behaves and consider a different needle only if necessary.  The AAT needle is a leaner but similar profile to the AAU included in the typical "stage one" kit.  There is the AAK profile that runs between the AAT and AAU that might be the option to try if a richer needle proves necessary.  The K&N filter is the item creating the possible need for a slightly richer profile.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 23, 2018, 02:29:14 PM
Did not get to the carb today.  Instead, I added 1/2 spacers to the jerry can mount for a bit more body clearance and got 3 of 4 wheels aligned.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on March 23, 2018, 02:50:36 PM
What are your thoughts on doing the alignment yourself so far?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 23, 2018, 03:19:36 PM
It is not that bad.  A bit time consuming on the fronts as you set each item, then go back and adjust them all over again repeating several times until they all match up.  Changing camber affects caster and vise-versa.

I used a combination of the string method and the plates & gauge.  The string was the "center line" reference.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on March 23, 2018, 03:24:03 PM
I figure so long as I get caster around 3-3.5 and camber -1.5 plus or minus a hair, it should be close enough. I'm more concerned about tweaking the rear subframe so it tracks straight.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 23, 2018, 06:32:29 PM
I am going for front at 3 deg caster, -0.5 deg camber, 1/8" total toe out and rear at -0.5 deg camber, 1/8" total toe in.

I got the rears (just) and one of the fronts set.  The rears were a bit of a challenge as one side "maxed" at -0.5 deg camber (could not adjust to greater negative camber), the other had to be adjusted the other way slightly.  Oh, the wonderful vagaries of Minis.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 24, 2018, 05:18:55 PM
Got the alignment finished today. 

Also snugged up some brake line connections that were weeping slightly.  I will need to bleed the brakes again as the first push on the pedal is softish, then firms up nicely on the second push.

Found a slight exhaust leak at the joints for the main pipe to the muffler - I had a couple 1-1/2" clamps and only one 1-3/8" clamp and so used the 1-1/2" ones.  I need to use the 1-3/8" size instead - got two from Napa parts today for installing.

Oiled the steering rack with 80W90 gear oil.  Probably need to put just a bit more in to be at spec.

Tried tuning the carb again using the "lift pin" method.  No luck.  I set the carb back to baseline and tried the lift pin: pushed up slightly = no change; pushed up fully = engine dies out (it just slows and stalls out).  The "Fuel System" chapter of my orange service manual says that means the mixture is too weak.  It takes a lot of flats to raise the mixture and then there is no adjustment in the idle screw to bring the rpms back down.

Time to research needles for a richer one.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 27, 2018, 09:21:45 PM
Swapped the exhaust clamps today.

Also tried bleeding the brakes again.  Still getting some very slight weeping from the connections on the front subframe where the lines meet the flex lines to the calipers.

I think I have two issues there. 
- On the one, it is the "banjo" bolt that also hold the brake light switch that may be just barely bottoming out before being totally snug on the crush washers.  I may need to remove the banjo bolt and shave it slightly so that it compresses the crush washers better before bottoming in the hose connection.
- On the other, I think the adapter for the braided line to the caliper line is not reaching bottom and even with an AN sealing washer in place, it still seeps.  I have some alternate adapters that should allow it to go deeper into the caliper line and thus seat properly.

All other brake line connections are secure and dry.

The carb needles are due to arrive tomorrow, so it looks like Thursday will be the next work day on the Moke.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on March 28, 2018, 12:58:51 AM
Seems to be a regular thing lately with brake lines and fittings not making a good seal.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on March 28, 2018, 07:52:09 AM
I never could get those braided stainless steel brake lines to seal at the calipers on Stan's car......I finally gave up and put on stock rubber hoses.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 28, 2018, 09:46:50 AM
My caliper hoses are the stock rubber.  It is the connections at the subframe where I am getting seeping.

Regarding the hose-to-banjo-bolt connection where the hydraulic brake switch installs: I have heard that the depth of the flex hose (in my case to the caliper versus to the drums) connection is not always correct.  There used to be two different part number for the front flex hoses and they were "handed" with the right hand one being deeper for the banjo bolt.  Now they are the same depth for both sides.  The new ones seem to be just barely too shallow for the banjo bolt and just a tad too deep for the line to seal on the left side.

Where I am using braided lines all around, I have to use male-to-male adapters to connect the female lines together.  I have a slightly longer version of the adapter I am going to try on the left side.

I think I may have finally gotten the right side tight enough.  I will have to monitor it for further seeping.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on March 28, 2018, 09:49:44 AM
I've had to double up copper washers on some of those banjo bolts to keep from bottoming out.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on March 28, 2018, 10:18:13 AM
Where do you find a male to male adaptor?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 28, 2018, 01:28:20 PM
I found them online at jegs.com when I ordered all the other bits for doing the brake lines.

They are referred to as "Flare Union" or "Bulkhead Union"  (part #110200 and #10680 respectively).

Those are the AN-3 size which matches the standard brake line size for Minis.  They have them in other AN sizes as well.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on March 28, 2018, 01:47:15 PM
I need a female AN3/ 3/8 male union, no one seems to carry those......
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 28, 2018, 02:00:51 PM
Check through these search results at Jegs and see if anything comes close:

-3AN to 3/8 fitting (http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchResultsPageCmd?Ntt=-3AN+to+3%2F8+fitting&requestYear=&storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&year=&make=&model=&submodel=&engine=&Nrpp=&No=&persistYmm=false)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on March 28, 2018, 02:27:24 PM
Nope, they are all "backwards" to what I need......I think.

I need an inverted flare 3AN female and a male 3/8-24....
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 28, 2018, 02:47:23 PM
Dave,

AN-3 is 3/8-24 threading.  Would combining a couple of unions be acceptable?

One of these:
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/100760/10002/-1 (http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/100760/10002/-1)

Coupled to one of these:
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/105320/10002/-1 (http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/105320/10002/-1)

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on March 28, 2018, 05:05:31 PM
Yes, that would work...in fact, I ordered those exact same parts from Summit Racing, but what they sent me was completely different than the pics so I sent them back. Thanks for those part numbers!

Sheesh, $25 plus shipping for 4 little fittings!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 29, 2018, 04:51:20 PM
Well, today's efforts were not totally in vain.

I got the seeping at the brake line connections fixed.  Bled the brakes again - getting no air, but still getting a soft pedal that I have to pump before getting decent braking.  I'll pull the rear drums and make sure the shoes are oriented correctly as I know that will cause the symptoms I have.

Changing to a richer needle made a significant difference.  I have it much closer to being tuned.  I had to readjust the timing a slight bit, then back to the carb.  The needle that came with the carb was an AAT, which was significantly leaner than the factory needle for a 998 with HS-4 carb (ABX needle).  I first tried going to an ABX and that made a lot of difference over the AAT.  Since I have a K&N filter on, I then upped to an AAS needle that is very slightly richer than the ABX.  I also have an ABD needle that is richer still I can try if necessary.  I'm going to run the AAS for a bit and see how that does.

I tried to calibrate the electronic speedometer, but did not get that to work - apparently not getting any pulse signals from the sender on the transmission.  I get to troubleshoot that in the next few days.

I did loop around the apartment complex a few times in trying the speedometer calibration.  It handled well - steering is tight with no play and was not twitchy - so I must be pretty close with the alignment.  Throttle response seemed pretty good as well.  It would sometimes try to die out at idle - idle would slow and try to die out, but a slight throttle bip would bring it back.  A little more tuning seems needed, but it seems close.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on March 31, 2018, 03:47:27 PM
I had a friend help with bleeding the brakes today.  Did it the old "two man pump and hold" method.  Got some more air and crud out of the system.  I reused the original pressure regulating valve on the rear subframe and it apparently had crud in it as the rears kept putting out dirty fluid for a while.  I seem to have better pedal feel after getting clear fluid to bleed at all 4 corners along with a bit of air out.

I'll know more the next time I try a test drive.

We then set to troubleshooting the speedometer not calibrating.  Apparently, I have a dead sender.  After verifying the connections at the speedometer, we put one front wheel up and tried manually rotating the engine to check for pulses with an oscilloscope hooked up and got no pulses.  We the struggled with the tight space to get the sender back out and attempted a bench test with a power supply and the scope.  Still no pulses.  Time to contact the supplier. 

We attempted to test the input into the speedometer, but not knowing the sampling algorithm, I could not manage to replicate pulses and see if the speedometer counted them in calibration mode.  Another question for the supplier.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on April 02, 2018, 06:43:30 AM
Just A touch of advise for the Brakes...

make sure all the adjusters + shoes are "tight" in adjusting  there is variying ideas of 'how tight.. slightly dragging or touching being described.    Ive always had best luck on brake rebuilds to make them all "SNUG"   then that new wear will 'break in the shoes to the drums, Everything finds its happy place and the pedal is nice and FIRM HIGH UP! takes out any ' adjustment slop in the pedal.

I like my pedal feel on my twin drums vs the disks on my other car.


Good progress.  Its a British car there wil ALWAYS be something to fettle with.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 02, 2018, 08:42:43 AM
I have been checking the adjustment of the rears and setting them with a slight drag - able to get about 1/2 - 3/4 a rotation of the wheel with a reasonable 1-handed spin effort.

I think it is mostly a matter of the entire system being new (with braided flex lines everywhere instead of hard lines) and getting all of the air bled out.  The only "old" part was the pressure valve on the rear subframe and it needed flushing out.  It may take another couple of bleed sessions with time between to get the last of the air worked out.  I suspect there is not much left, but that it needs to be driven some to get the air to collect together enough to bleed out.

It does feel better after this last session.

I tried to contact the vendor I got the speedometer & speed sensor from, but it turns out today is a British "Bank Holiday" and nobody answered.

I am debating switching to the now available GPS sensor instead of the transmission mounted one.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 03, 2018, 09:02:13 AM
The vendor was very helpful.  They were willing to send a free replacement sensor of the same type.

I mentioned I was considering upgrading to the GPS sensor as the tab of the normal sensor for going into the drive hole of the transmission seems to always need "filing to fit".  They were also willing to work a deal there - charged me the difference between the sensors and split the cost of postage.

The new sensor is on its way by tracked Royal Post.

I will use the adapter from the first sensor to be a "cap" on the transmission output: put a small plastic plug in the top hole and used heat shrink to keep it in place.

I'll get it all buttoned back up while waiting for the sensor to arrive.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 13, 2018, 02:19:30 PM
New GPS based speed sensor arrived.  Working out where to install it while still wracking my brains over the soft brake pedal (see other thread).

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 14, 2018, 07:27:32 PM
Got the GPS speed sensor installed and ready for some test drives.  Hoping to at least run around the apartment complex tomorrow.  May even take it out for a short drive if it seems okay around the complex.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 15, 2018, 04:09:29 PM
Did a couple laps around the complex and verified the speedometer against my little Garmin Nuvi GPS.  The new sensor makes the speedometer spot on.

The first push of the brake pedal is still softish, firming up on the second push if soon enough after the first.  It is a bit better than before.

The replacement rear shoes are not due until Thursday.  I am going to drive it a bit more to bed things in and then recheck adjustments before trying the different rear shoes.

I did take it out for a bit of a drive to lunch and back.  It is running a little hot ~ 215-220 degrees.  (I verified the temperature gauge & sender prior to install using the boiling water on the stove method.)

When I got back I rechecked the timing and it was a little advanced, so set that back to 8 deg BTDC (was about 12 deg at idle).  That should help with the temps.  Also found the fluid down just a tad - as though freshly filled system "burped" an air pocket into the radiator - so topped that up a bit with straight distilled water - did not take much, about 6 ounces.  (I am running about a 25-30% coolant to 70-75% distilled water mix.)

Time to start driving it to get some "break in" time on everything.

71.gif

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on April 15, 2018, 04:14:05 PM
Wow, that seems hot to me.....I think I set mine up to max out at 185-190° on a hot day.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 15, 2018, 06:18:07 PM
It seems hot to me as well.  I think I have a 185* thermostat installed.  Unless the gauge is not as accurate as I thought from the boiling water test or the thermostat is not working correctly, it seems to want to register about 220* on the gauge with steady driving.

I have wanted an excuse to get one of the IR/laser temperature meters.  I guess I will be running off to Harbor Freight tomorrow for one to use to verify the mechanical gauge and sample places around the engine.

I am using the radiator that came with the 998.  I believe it is a standard three-core.  It was flushed clear before installation.  I do have a six-blade metal "tropical" fan installed as well.

I went out for another longer run this evening and it still read about 220*.  It ran fine with the adjusted timing.  Held with traffic doing 45-50 on main roads (not highways).  It does not behave as though ready to boil over - nothing steaming out anywhere.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 16, 2018, 03:24:00 PM
I did a bit more "digging" into the running hot today and think I found the cause - running too lean.

I checked through my records and I put in a 180*F thermostat when I built up the 998 engine.

I pulled the spark plugs before starting as they would show how it was the end of yesterday.  They were very light-grey-to-white in color across all four plugs. 

I enriched the carb by one full turn and did a couple laps around the complex to get another starting color reference - no real change.  I enriched another full turn and took it out for a several mile drive.  It was mid-80s ambient temps, but the Moke still ran hot (close to 230*F).  I rechecked the plugs at home immediately after the drive.  They were still very light in color, but just starting to show a hint of light chocolate brown.

I know I do not have any gasket leaks as I checked that using a fireplace/BBQ lighter to give a fuel source and got no changes.

I have a another richer needle to try.  I am also going to remove and cap off the "gulp" valve from the intake manifold and vent the tappet cover breather just to atmosphere (putting on one of those little filters).  I want to eliminate any possible source of making the mixture too lean.

I also got a 160*F thermostat and gasket as a backup option.  I think if I get the mixture more to where it should be, I will not need to change the thermostat or consider a radiator change.


Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on April 16, 2018, 03:36:11 PM
It's been my experience running lean does little in coolant temps. Some but little. We use to run lean of peak egt to run cooler in piston aircraft as one example.  When my 998 ran hot it didn't matter how much fuel or how perfectly the timing was set, it still ran hot.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on April 16, 2018, 04:32:15 PM
Buzz wanted to run that hot too - but only on the highway, around town it would cool down to the center of the gauge -  I had to add an extra radiator to cool him down. Later, I found out he had the wrong water pump pulley on, I had lowered the final drive so much it wasn't turning the water pump fast enough to move the coolant thru the system, a smaller pulley off a Sprite did the trick.

On the Racing Green, which also ran way too warm - never in the red but too warm for my tastes - I put one of those $60 Ebay aluminum radiators in - now I have a hard time getting the engine up to temp on a cold day even with a 180* thermostat, but it never goes over the middle of the gauge even on the hottest summer day, running hard on the highway.

I agree with Dan, I think the only time running that lean would make it run hot is if you were on a long highway run at high RPM. In city speed stop and go driving I don't think it would matter, but I also think you would notice terrible performance with it that lean.

I hate to ask this, but you're sure you have the thermostat in right? A lot of very competent mechanics have installed it upside down....so you don't have to feel alone if you did.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 16, 2018, 06:08:09 PM
I put on the pulley that came with the tropical fan that came with the 998.

I know I put the thermostat in with the spring side in the head - the large copper cylinder wrapped by the spring would be immersed in the coolant chamber of the head.

I did get one of the laser-pointer Temperature sensors and verified the gauge is indeed accurate.

I'll see what happens with the tinkering tomorrow.

Any idea the diameter of the Sprite pulley for comparison against what I have?

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on April 16, 2018, 06:43:41 PM
Seems like the Mini pulley was like 4 1/2 and the Sprite was 3 7/8 or so......wasn't a huge difference. I'm pulling those numbers out of my head tho........
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on April 16, 2018, 06:54:39 PM
The aluminum radiator off ebay is a good reliability mod for cheap.  I'd put one in either way.  You'll get more water capacity for those hot Texas days.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 16, 2018, 08:53:23 PM
Any link available to one of the aluminum radiator listings that you guys have used before?

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on April 16, 2018, 09:32:05 PM
Type in Austin mini radiator and pages of 50mm cores pop up.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/50-mm-2-rows-Aluminum-Radiator-for-AUSTIN-ROVER-MINI-1275-GT-1959-1997-Manual/121631809037?hash=item1c51d21e0d:g:8EkAAOSwPgxVOh1T
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on April 17, 2018, 06:15:36 AM
I always get one that has the screw in plug on the bottom corner, that way it still makes a mess but it's easier to drain.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 17, 2018, 08:06:33 AM
I was apparently not entering the right keywords to easily find the ones for classic Minis.  My search last night was getting lots of entries for various new MINIs.

Thanks for the direct link Dan.  I'll get one of those ordered asap.

I'm also going to find a smaller pulley and might as well replace the water pump while in there.

Things I should have done while it was still out of the car ...  :-[


Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on April 17, 2018, 08:29:32 AM
I'll bet this will fix you right up.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 17, 2018, 09:36:31 AM
Turns out 7Ent was the only place I found that had the older small water pump pulley in stock.  Ordered the pulley and a new water pump from them today as well as the new radiator from ebay (Dan's link).

In discussing the issue with Jack at 7Ent, he indicated the mixture will have a significant impact - if way too lean (like mine has been) it will run hot.

I am going to work on the mixture and timing some more while waiting on the cooling system parts.

Also going to keep trying to improve the brake pedal feel if I can.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Jimini II on April 23, 2018, 11:49:17 AM
An old trick i was taught when working at SU in the 70's was to push the needle farther into the piston thus making the car run richer through the range, works great and lets you decide if you need a needle change. Also pull the choke out slightly when driving through the gears this will verify if you do need a richer needle.
Not sure which filter you are using but if you changed it from the factory one it will need a richer needle.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 23, 2018, 12:33:56 PM
Jimini-II,

I have a K&N cone filter on it.  I have put in a richer (ABD) needle and seem to finally have it adjusted about right as per the "lift-pin" method.

It ran a little bit cooler once I finally got the mixture about right - in the 200* to 210* range.

The new radiator arrived today.  I will begin changing things out to new water pump, new (smaller) pulley, new 160* thermostat and the new radiator this afternoon.

Still have a bit more diagnostics to do on the brakes - see the other "brake bleeding" thread.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 23, 2018, 07:11:34 PM
Started the cooling system upgrade today.  I got the old radiator, thermostat and water pump out.  Not an easy task on a Moke as it has the early style fender shroud that limits the room to maneuver things.

It turns out I already had an upgraded water pump - the cast impeller and the deeper 1275 style that also fits later 998s.  (I had ordered the cast impeller, but shallow depth for small bore engines not knowing exactly what year my engine is.)  I will be putting it back in with a fresh gasket.

I also had to make some minor modifications to the 2-piece fan shroud for fitting to the new radiator.

Tomorrow will be the bulk of the reassemble process for the cooling system.  I plan to let it set overnight before putting the alternator back on so the new gasket seal will be fully cured first.

I still have to do a bit more troubleshooting of the brakes.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on April 24, 2018, 04:27:01 PM
Cooling system is back together.  Had to also make some "mods" to the fender shroud to get enough room for getting the new radiator in place with flex to be able to reinstall the fan.

Putting the fan back on took a couple of tries as well - first time I got it on backward.

I did get a bit more clearance between the fan and the radiator as I did not need the spacer for the fan with the new pulley as the nose of the pulley was smaller diameter than the old pulley.

Water pump pulleys come in three diameters: 4.75" (my old one), 4.2" and 3.875" (my new one).  The 3.875" used to be the standard, but got replaced with the larger ones along the way.

Tomorrow's agenda:
- fill the cooling system,
- get a friend to help examine the rear brakes for a possible leak
- attempt a test drive of the revamped cooling system
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on April 24, 2018, 05:13:30 PM
My fan was on backwards too, so when I changed the water pump I put it on the right way - it doesn't seem to make any difference in the cooling but it sure is a lot noisier!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 01, 2018, 04:00:33 PM
Well, finally got back to the Moke today.

Back on the 25th I found a tiny amount of brake fluid at each rear on the back plate below the middle of the slave cylinders.  The piston seals sowed no leaking, so I became suspect of the hard line connection or the bleed screws.  I ordered parts for redoing those, which cam in yesterday.

Got the hard lines switched out for braided and new bleed screws in place.  Bled the system and it seems a bit better.  I may be finally getting it close.

I also fired it up to leak test the cooling system.  No leaks.  Running it in the garage for the same amount of time as would previously let the engine warm up to 200* to 210* now only reached 170* on the gauge.  The laser temp sensor would read 135* to 170* depending on where pointed.  The spot reading 170* would fluctuate with cycles down to about 140* that seemed like matching the thermostat opening and closing.

I'll try another actual road test tomorrow.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on May 01, 2018, 04:25:03 PM
Aluminum radiator? That's been my exact experience with mine.

I had problems getting the rear wheel cylinders to seal up on another car I was working on, wound up replacing both hard lines with new ones to cure the problem. Sounds like you have it sorted!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on May 01, 2018, 05:39:38 PM
When I got Stans temp sensor working and took it for a spin on a cool day, the temp gauge dropped low enough I momentarily worried there was a leak and it dumped the fluid.  These Chinese rads really work wonders!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 02, 2018, 07:00:11 PM
Got the Moke out for a road test this afternoon in 90* air temps.  I ran the same route and driving conditions as previously.  In previous runs, the temperature gauge went up to 230*.  In today's run, it never topped 200* and would readily drop back down to 180*.

The changes in the rear brakes also got a bit better pedal feel.  I am a lot more confident in starting to drive it now.

The only remaining item is to decide whether to install the tachometer I purchased for it or leave it off.

I also should get some touch-up paint mixed up for a few places I made scratches during all the reassembly.  I have the mix formula from the shop that did the work in order to get it properly matched.

Pictures to follow when I get a nice day to drive it somewhere for a photo session.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on May 02, 2018, 08:24:56 PM
Good to hear  77.gif
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 03, 2018, 02:17:19 PM
Had it out again today for a good around town run.  I took it across town to the shop that did the "roll bar", top and painting of the body to show off the completed car.  Also drove it through a bunch of traffic to "stress" test the cooling.

The "official" temperature (at the airport away from pavement) was 90*, but running around in traffic is usually at least 5* higher, so about 95* plus humidity = muggy.  The gauge temperature still stayed below 200* in lots of stop-n-go traffic with spurts of up to 55 mph.

The brakes will need some more adjusting as things bed in, but it is definitely back on the road.

71.gif

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on May 03, 2018, 02:24:09 PM
 77.gif

When do you install the A/C unit?   ;D

Has anyone ever Vtec'd a Moke?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 03, 2018, 03:10:47 PM
For "a/c" I have a 12V fan to plug into one of the power ports.

I know of at least 2 VTEC Mokes: a yellow one with a D-series somewhere in the US and a burgundy one done by Riverhouse Minis in the Netherlands.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on May 03, 2018, 03:55:10 PM
Looking forward to some pictures, maybe something I can put on the home page.

If you find temps creep in extreme heat in stop n go traffic, an aux fan dropped my dying 998 temps back down.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Willie_B on May 03, 2018, 04:19:21 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on May 03, 2018, 02:24:09 PM

Has anyone ever Vtec'd a Moke?

Yes.
http://superfastminis.com/POKE.html
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: gr8kornholio on May 03, 2018, 05:07:07 PM
That just totally sparked my what I would build if I had the funds car brain.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Jimini II on May 07, 2018, 11:02:08 AM
Quote from: Willie_B on May 03, 2018, 04:19:21 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on May 03, 2018, 02:24:09 PM

Has anyone ever Vtec'd a Moke?

Yes.
http://superfastminis.com/POKE.html
[/
quote]
That one looks like a B series twin cam that they built in a Choke shell. The single cam D series was built on an Aussie or Portuguese Moke shell and last i heard it was in Atlanta.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 07, 2018, 12:42:05 PM
The 'D-series' one I recall seeing posts about was a yellow one done from an Aussie or Portuguese shell as Malcolm notes.

The red one from the link makes three I am now aware of.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 26, 2018, 01:31:02 PM
Had the Moke out for a run today - it has been sitting for a while.  It started right up and ran well.  The cooling system got a heavy test as well.

It was already above 95* when I went out with it.  I was going across town to my PO box and the Ft. Sam Houston National Cemetery (where my parents are buried), so took it out on the freeway to get there.  After 20+ minutes at 65-70mph in the heat it got up to about 210* on the way there.  When driving through the neighborhood between the PO box and cemetery, it readily cooled itself back down to about 190*.  The drive home was a bit more time on the freeway in more heat.  It crept up to about 215* on the freeway and again readily cooled back down to about 190* off the freeway before getting home.

I'm satisfied with the performance.  It ran well in getting up to 65 and 70 mph on the freeway.  It may have been able to do a bit more, but I did not want to push it too much.

Got lots of smiles and waves along the way.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on May 26, 2018, 01:55:01 PM
Didn't you do an aluminum Rad? I can't believe it's running that hot. It's 95* here today and mine just gets up to normal, and that's running on the freeway, around town it's even cooler......
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on May 26, 2018, 02:45:03 PM
That's still warmer than I'd expect too. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 26, 2018, 04:23:42 PM
Yes, it is an aluminum radiator.

It is a 998 engine, timed to 6* BTDC at 1000 rpm per timing light.  It has an electronic distributor (not a 123).  It has new plugs properly gapped.  If anything, I currently have the carb slightly rich.  It is a fresh "rebuilt for unleaded" head from SevenEnt.

The cooling system is a newer cast, deep impeller water pump, 160* thermostat, aluminum radiator, new hoses (upper, lower, and bypass).  There is no heater - the take off on the head is not drilled.  It has a 6-blade metal "tropical" fan (mounted correctly).  The smallest of the three available diameter water pump pulleys.

I started out with the largest of the available water pump pulleys and the standard radiator and it ran even hotter in just around town driving.  I then changed to the small pulley and aluminum radiator.

I am running a mix of about 25% coolant and 75% distilled water in the system.

It does not expel any fluid.

I did the "boiling water" test of the temperature gauge before installing it in the car.  It read about between 210 and 215 when the water began a rolling boil.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on May 26, 2018, 06:33:21 PM
Bump your timing up a couple degrees and see if that has an effect. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 26, 2018, 08:53:41 PM
So take the timing to about 8* or 10*?  Or take it to 4*?

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on May 26, 2018, 09:25:40 PM
Up to 8 or 10.  Too far retarded can make it run hot, and base timing for minis is in the 8-10 range at 1k rpms. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jeff10049 on May 26, 2018, 10:01:53 PM
what Dan said,
more timing seems too hot what is your total advance? should be in the mid high 30's
have you tried cross checking temps with a non contact point and shoot type temp gun?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on May 27, 2018, 07:46:36 AM
Michael, if you have a heater core, plumb it in and see if it makes a difference - put it in the airflow of course....like WillieB did on his trip to Canada
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 27, 2018, 08:39:21 AM
I'll adjust the timing a bit and see what happens.

I only have a simple timing light - no variable advance on it.

I also do not have a heater core.

I do know the temp sender sits pretty deep into the head below the thermostat and very near the #1 combustion chamber.

I have one of the laser pointer temperature guns and will verify the temps at various places as well.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on May 27, 2018, 09:36:48 AM
A heater core and a couple of hoses is all you need for the test, just zip tie it to the slam panel or whatever. Heater cores are as low as $20 at Autozone.

If you have a block off plate at the end of the head I'm sure one of us has a take off you can have......

I just do not think it should run this hot, and I'm at a loss to understand why it is without doing some testing.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 27, 2018, 11:14:53 AM
The heater port on the end of the Moke's head is not drilled.

I will report the test results of adjusting the timing later today or tomorrow.

I'll do the timing only and then also try with the vacuum advance disconnected in case that is creating too much advance.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jeff10049 on May 27, 2018, 11:33:03 AM
Too much advance should not cause hot running, give it some more and see what happens just listen for detonation.

Maybe the temp sensor is just in a hot spot or a little off or both and you're actually fine.

Does the car seem to run well otherwise, power, starting, accel?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 27, 2018, 01:37:43 PM
Report time for first test.

Test: Advance base timing to 10* BTDC.  Clamped off the vacuum advance line (it is rubber), used timing light and dwell/tach unit to set base timing to 10*.  Released vacuum line and went for a test drive to include some freeway driving up to 70 mph.  Ambient temperatures the same as yesterday 95*-100*.

Results: The car got up to 210 on the freeway quicker than yesterday and only dropped back to 200* with neighborhood driving - so seems a bit warmer running at 10* BTDC with vacuum advance connected.  When I got home from the drive, I sampled several areas with the temp gun:
- gauge reading = 205*-210*
- temp gun at t-stat housing reading = 185*
- temp gun close to head near gauge sender reading = 205*-207*
- temp gun at head at normal heater port location near #4 = 211*-213*
- temp gun at middle of top radiator hose = 175*

The results tend to indicate the gauge is reading accurately and the car is running warmer than we all would like.

The car seems to run well - strong running, decent power and acceleration, starts fine hot or cold, cannot discern any sounds of detonation.

Thinking for the next test: retard timing back to 6*-8* as before, disconnect the vacuum advance line (capping off at the carb).

Recommendations?

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on May 27, 2018, 02:39:02 PM
I'm surprised that little bit of timing advance could give those results, I'd say put it back where you had it. However, what is the temp at the bottom of the rad?

What is it showing on the gauge? Is that a capillary type mechanical gauge or the OEM C-N-H gauge?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 27, 2018, 02:54:59 PM
I forgot to check the bottom of the radiator.  It is a mechanical capillary gauge.  As I recall from when I had the thermostat out when putting in the new radiator and such, the tip sits well into the head with much of it about 1/8" away from the side of the #1 combustion chamber dome.

I ran the second test run (timing back to 6* BTDC, vacuum advance disconnected).  The results were the same as the first.  Ambient temperatures were a few degrees higher (97*+).

It seems happiest right now at 6* BTDC with Vacuum advance connected.  The "seat of pants" feel of performance was about the same in all cases.

Plug color at the start was a dry chocolate brown, indicating possibly still a tiny bit rich.

I am running standard 87 octane unleaded.  I have been putting in a dose of "Stabil" brand fuel stabilizer for it sitting most of each week.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jeff10049 on May 27, 2018, 10:24:21 PM
It's not terrible but just seems a little hotter than it should be.

What about the exhaust system any chance of restrictions?

Maybe pull the t stat and see how it runs could be not opening properly.

I would expect you to not see 200 given the cooling system and conditions.

I am grasping at straws here something doesn't seem right.

I may have read here or another thread but what is the engine history? sorry I can't remember.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 28, 2018, 08:10:59 AM
Exhaust system is has no restrictions.  I am using the factory stock intake/exhaust manifold, a stock small bore Moke exhaust ordered from M-Parts and a dual tip rear box ordered from Mini Sport (sized for 998).

Engine history has some slight unknowns.  The 998 was purchased from another RM member as a decent "running when removed" engine that came with starter, distributor, intake, carb.  I have put a newly rebuilt unleaded 998 head from 7Ent on it and a new "hybrid" transmission from Guessworks under it.  I put freshly rebuilt HS4 carb from 7Ent on versus the original.

At least the 200* is better than the 230* I was seeing before the change in radiator and water pump pulley.

I could order a t-stat blanking sleeve and try that.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on May 28, 2018, 08:22:36 AM
Your temps are safe and once out of the dead of summer will likely plummet on your gauge.  About 10 degrees hotter than I'd expect but better than 230 like you say!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: jedduh01 on May 29, 2018, 05:14:47 AM
195-205-210 I really wouldn't be afraid.   As long as the system is pressurizing and holding pressure its working OK. some motors just do run ' warmer.  and when  it gets 100+ degree summer weather in Texas i really doubt you'll be really driving the Moke as you would boil too!


If you wanted a bit of 'extra' security plumbing in a ' auxiliary Radiator would be advisable.  They've proven to help + give that extra coverage in some cases.  Extra capacity + just a bit more heat extraction

Looking at your setup would take a little bit of parts and work.   you would need to un cork the rear heater tap in your head  and add a heater hose with a heater outlet are the 'most' advisable connection points for a 'heat 'extractor"
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 29, 2018, 06:40:42 AM
It is indeed pressurizing and it is not overflowing in any manner.  The coolant is still clean.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on May 29, 2018, 06:55:59 AM
You're better off running on the slight hot side than too cool anyways.  The aux rad for summers may be the way to go if you become concerned with overheating. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on May 30, 2018, 10:15:23 AM
I just realized I may have also been "shooting myself in the foot" to a certain degree.

I have the front license plate mounted in the center of the grill.  This is restricting the amount of air getting into the engine bay by at least 1/4 to 1/3 of the grill opening.

I am going to move the plate down to some 'L' brackets mounted to the tow bar and see what that does.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on May 30, 2018, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: MPlayle on May 30, 2018, 10:15:23 AM
I just realized I may have also been "shooting myself in the foot" to a certain degree.

I have the front license plate mounted in the center of the grill.  This is restricting the amount of air getting into the engine bay by at least 1/4 to 1/3 of the grill opening.

I am going to move the plate down to some 'L' brackets mounted to the tow bar and see what that does.

I bet that is it. 
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Jimini II on May 30, 2018, 01:24:42 PM
Also something else to consider. I had a friend who put a used 1275 in his Mini and could not get it to run cool or even normal.
After going through everything he finally pulled the engine and found out there was a build up of sludge that i presume had hardened up somewhat while the engine sat for a long period before being installed by him which resulted in blocked waterways.
I would remove the anti freeze and try some of that radiator/engine block cleaner and use it for a few days to see what may break loose.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 03, 2018, 04:44:04 PM
Moving the license plate from the grill to below the bumper helped a little bit more.  Shaved about 5* off the running temp - stayed to 205* tops on the highway at 70 mph.

From here it think it is due mostly to where the longer sensor ends up sitting deeper into the head and much closer to the #1 combustion chamber than the factory sensors.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Willie_B on June 16, 2018, 04:05:04 PM
Michael, are you running your water temp sensor straight into the head or do you have an adapter? If I screw my unit straight in it runs into metal inside before it tightens. With the adapter/spacer there is between 3/8" and 1/2" space.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 16, 2018, 05:13:19 PM
I use an adaptor too......I couldn't make mine tighten up too, I figured they all needed it (with the capillary style temp gauge)

Parts 55 and 56 on this page.....

http://www.victoriabritish.com/icatalog/sm/full.aspx?Page=78 (http://www.victoriabritish.com/icatalog/sm/full.aspx?Page=78)
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 16, 2018, 07:11:47 PM
I am not using an adapter.  Mine was just able to tighten up without one.  It probably would have been better to have used one.  That may make the final difference in how warm my gauge reads.

I'll put getting the adapter on the list.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on June 16, 2018, 07:33:56 PM
Off topic, but on topic: Michael have you posted some good photos of the finished Moke out of the garage?   If so, I've missed them.  Can you share how the finished car came out?
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 16, 2018, 07:43:48 PM
I have not yet taken photos of the finished Moke out of the garage.  I need to do that as well.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 18, 2018, 04:43:30 PM
Found a suitable adapter at Home Depot today.  I did have to drill out the center hole to a larger diameter - used the old electrical sender from the old head as a measuring guide.  I will syphon out a bunch of coolant to minimize the mess and lost coolant and install the adapter Wednesday. 

I have a cardio appointment tomorrow and I want to get another thermostat gasket.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 20, 2018, 03:37:53 PM
Installed the adapter today.  Below are pictures of the capillary tube location before and after installing the adapter.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Willie_B on June 20, 2018, 06:49:43 PM
That looks much better.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 20, 2018, 09:23:18 PM
I will fill and leak test it tomorrow after the new gasket seals.  I use the "Fel-Pro" paper thermostat gaskets and give them a thin coat of Permatex Grey gasket maker sealant.  It should be good after sitting overnight tonight.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 21, 2018, 08:56:12 AM
Well, partial success.  The adapter and sensor are not leaking, but one of the thermostat housing studs is leaking.  It seeps out under the nut, so either the gasket did not seal on the inside near that stud, or it is leaking up the threads. 

When I tried to remove the nut to check it, the stud backed out.  Time to syphon the fluid back down and make another try at getting the thermostat housing properly sealed.  (I did remember to get an extra gasket when starting this effort.)



Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 21, 2018, 09:04:39 AM
Good idea, I always get two also, now I have a stack of them! My trick is to glue the gasket to the housing and put a layer of grease on the cylinder head side, then I can take it on and off and the gasket is still good as it doesn't tear. I do the same with the valve cover gaskets.

On the stud, smear some of that gasket sealer on the threads before you screw it back in and it won't leak anymore. Worst case, you can put a little RTV around the top of the stud after you install the housing, then put a flat wahser under the nut - that will seal it for sure. I had to do thid with a few of the head studs on my old Jag as water would work it's way up the stud and out from under the acorn nuts.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 21, 2018, 09:46:55 AM
I do the grease trick with the valve cover gasket, but hove not tried it with the thermostat gasket.

Removing the housing to clean up the leaking gasket and the other two studs backed out.  Letting it all dry before going at it again.  I also have one of the cork/rubber gaskets I may try instead.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 21, 2018, 01:01:10 PM
I put a small amount of the gasket seal stuff around the bottom threads of the studs before putting them back into the head (as per Dave's suggestion).  I got them in tight (I think) using a set of vice/mole grips to grab and tighten them into the head.

I then decided to use the cork/rubber gasket this time (slightly thicker) along with sealant on both sides.  I have it all back together and drying.  I will do the fill and test again tomorrow.

Fingers crossed I don't have a leak.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on June 21, 2018, 03:16:40 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on June 21, 2018, 01:01:10 PM
  I got them in tight (I think) using a set of vice/mole grips to grab and tighten them into the head.


Here's a different way: Install the stud finger-tight into the head.  Then thread two nuts on it and lock them against each other by turning them in opposite directions. Once they are locked together and immovable as a pair you can tighten the top one which will turn the stud into the head and get it as tight as you want - including torquing it to the right figure.     Then release the two nuts and back them off the stud.   
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 21, 2018, 03:23:08 PM
I've done that method before.  It did not want to cooperate on these when I first had them back out - before putting any sealant on the threads.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 22, 2018, 10:50:05 AM
I seem to have fixed the leak.  I will try to get it out for a drive test this afternoon after a doctor appointment.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on June 22, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Excellent, be interested to hear if the temp gauge reads differently. Is it still just as hot there? We've had rain the last few days so it's cooled off here - humidity is still a million per cent, but at least it's not 90*
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on June 22, 2018, 03:44:13 PM
Still just as hot here, maybe a few degrees hotter than in May.  Weather sites were reporting 98* and 99* when I checked coming back from the doctor's.  I took the Moke out anyway and went to the bank - was going to get it onto the highway coming back, but it was into 5:00 Friday traffic and the highway was already stacked up and playing "parking lot".

I did go through stop-n-go traffic in the heat and the temp gauge peaked at 195* while sitting still at idle.  It would drop back to 180*-185* when going with the revs in the right spot.  At a steady 45-50 mph for a bit it would creep back up to about 190*.   Never cracked 200* as it had been doing before.

The position of the tip of the capillary tube sensor does make a significant difference.

I confirmed the accuracy of the gauge again using the laser gun.  The gauge does read accurate.

I have almost all the little "teething pain" bits from doing a full restoration completed.  I still need to address the slightly soft brake feel now that they are bedded in and then a few cosmetic touch ups from the assembly (careless bumping of the rear valance when installing the rear subframe, brake fluid dripping from doing the pressure bleed and having the cap leak, a dropped tool here and there sort of thing).

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on June 22, 2018, 07:24:31 PM
Glad that's all it was.  Wouldn't think sensor position would make such a big difference!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Willie_B on June 23, 2018, 06:41:17 PM
Super, another issue checked off.
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on September 17, 2018, 09:00:55 PM
Finally got a pleasant day (not raining) for getting the Moke out and taking the long overdue "finished" set of pictures.

I took a LOT of pictures to show off all aspects (as though presenting on BaT).  I have uploaded them to a new album on this site.  Since there are about 101 pictures in the set, here is a link instead of trying to post selections in this thread.

http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=82 (http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=82)

I had a friend along and we also did a "dry run" of flat towing it around the parking lot at the nearby Shriner Temple auditorium.  It towed very nicely with no fighting any low speed turns.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: 94touring on September 18, 2018, 05:46:02 AM
Looks really good  4.gif
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: BruceK on September 18, 2018, 06:01:43 AM
It turned out very nice!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on September 18, 2018, 06:46:35 AM
Cool, sounds like you're ready to head north in a couple of weeks! If you can, find out which needle and spring you're running in your carb so when we do the baseline run we'll know what we're working with.....
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on September 18, 2018, 10:59:35 AM
I don't know what spring came in the new carb, but I do know the current needle.  I will also bring along the few spares I have.

Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MiniDave on September 18, 2018, 11:04:58 AM
Great, we'll have some choices if the dyno says we need to try something different....
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: Vikram on September 18, 2018, 01:52:35 PM
Came out really nicely, big fan of the colour scheme!
Title: Re: 67 MK-II Moke
Post by: MPlayle on September 19, 2018, 04:33:58 PM
On a side note: I finished the write-up document today.  It is 47 pages long and 50.1MB in size on disk.  Time to get some fresh ink cartridges and print a copy for in a binder at shows.