Two of this winters problem children here...need to refresh the suspension on the rallycar and put a heater back into it - and probably won't get to it but it grinds going into second gear - not sure what way forward on that...would like to buy a competition ready gearbox to make it a quick changeover but what spec and how much is it going to cost me.
The other one needs the suspension raised up a little so it stops bottoming out on bumps...and it needs the throwout bearing done. Think it also needs and engine mount or two so will do that as well.
So - replacing cones? I've had a Mini for 37 years but it had proper liquid suspension, lol...I bought the tool a long time ago - anything we should be aware of? I watched a video on it, seems like an 8 out of 10 swear job. But what isn't. :rolleyes:
Thanks!
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Replacing cones with hi los isn't the worst. Especially if you have the compression tool.
What type of speeds and rpms are you driving in the car that needs a competition gearbox?
You can buy a straight cut gears box for the Mini.....are you able to pull the motors and swap a gearbox? If you haven't done it before you'll need to buy a flywheel puller - you can't rent one from your local auto parts store, it won't work.
I recommend the one from Guessworks, it's a little spendy but it WILL do the job, others don't always work.
http://www.guess-works.com/Shop/Parts/display.htm?id=501 (http://www.guess-works.com/Shop/Parts/display.htm?id=501)
They can also sell you a straight cut gears box complete with cross pin diff for about $2500, plus core charge.
http://www.guess-works.com/Shop/Gearbox/
You can change a throwout bearing in the car, but it's not fun. A whole lot less work than pulling the motor tho.
Nice, will checkout the Guessworks stuff - thx!!
I wish I knew the gearing that it has now...it's definitely sc/cr - has a Salisbury limited slip in as well according to the seller (which I believe, because man...that car is an absolute bear to drive on the street). We're probably flat out in 4th at about 70mph - screaming. Blowing the top off the 1440cc. I would want to duplicate it - so I suppose I'll have to have it torn down first.
New parts for the suspension (I already did the tie rods last year). I really don't expect these shocks to last at all - unfortunately, Bilsteins were NLA when I was looking.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/GalaxyUploads/i-42cRrbz/0/NLNZtrpqT2QwHjps8dfS9cpqZqVhGxkcbxCzpFVHm/L/20241215_155030-L.jpg)
Is it doing something like 4400 at 70 or 4800?
I like those lower control arms, those are the ones I use too....they are strong!
4400 at 70 is likely a 3.44 ratio..... unless you're running really tall tires, then it could have a 3.65 out of an Austin America, but they don't look that tall in the pics, what size are they on the rally car?
MiniSport offers beefed up upper shock mounts too https://www.minisport.com/c-ajj3360-right-hand-mini-front-shock-absorber-competition-top-mounting-bracket.html
Good thinking on the upper mounts - not sure what this one has on it, will look when I get in there. I have a set of those beefed up mounts for the other rallycar I will never finish so will look to use them on this instead!
I suppose now is a good time to admit neither the tach nor the speedometer work on this car. :043: - I'm just going by seat of the pants. Might try to rectify that now it has its place in the garage for a bit. Wiring is a shit show on it - but did recently get the fuel gauge working along with the dual tanks plumbed in - inside indicator indicators and wipers are on the to-do list as well.
The Yokohama Advan rally tires on it are 165/65-13 - guessing the biggest you can go by how much I had to grind away the rear trailing arm brackets. Getting gravel rally tires in 12" is problematic here in the states - Black Rocket and Maxsport each have them but they also each have US importers that aren't importing so places like Demon Tweeks won't sell to us. Need to get creative and have someone over there get them and then ship to me.
I did get some fresh snows for it from Wild Child, though - will get them mounted up for when this work is completed. There's a rallyx in January I'd like to get to!
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I guess they are pretty big! LOL
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Gross in here, probably should refresh the brakes, too.
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Edit: and now I'm hacking away at the balljoints and heating the daylights out of them I suppose those are in order, too. Ooo...in case you guys haven't gotten me anything yet - great gift idea!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/GalaxyUploads/i-zPfLkBZ/0/MSwdMRvjRLdbCBS6WPM7397BmdjbTdZ9ch5JP88dh/L/Screenshot_20241216_094451_Chrome-L.jpg)
(I suppose since you're all so cheap I'll just get the no-shim set - unless you've heard bad things about them. You know they are 220 pounds at Minispares and 131 pounds at Minisport?!?! Both without VAT of course - glad I looked!)
Edit #2: Found some more stuff...top pins, a bushing kit, top arms that we apparently had rebuilt a few years back. It's already like Christmas here!
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Wow, you've got all sorts of great stuff there!
65 series tires are def taller than standard, as evidenced by the rub marks and having to grind away for clearance on the rear brackets (you running camber brackets back there?) but without a tachometer it'll be hard to know what RPMs you're turning. I'm thinking since rally cars don't go 100 mph you don't need top speed ratios, but you do need gears to get you thru the mud, snow and grass......a 3.65 might be in order.
I bought a set of MiniSport's no shim ball joints, we'll see how they hold up but my car is a ways from being on the road.
On the new cones you will want to paint the bare metal. They will start rusting the first time they get wet.
Quote from: Willie_B on December 16, 2024, 10:48:23 AMOn the new cones you will want to paint the bare metal. They will start rusting the first time they get wet.
Whew - thanks! One of those things that bugs me so bad yet I'm either too rushed or thinking, 'looks good that way, I'm sure it won't rust'. :021:
Well...pulled the radiator because it was tough getting to the bolts down there on the bottom and I have no idea the last time the cooling system was flushed - yuck.
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Probably get a new radiator at this point and all the hoses are hardened up like rocks so add it to the list. Then I was thinking...really wanted to get the head checked out - not much more left to pull it. And hey, when you're redoing your suspension it's probably what most people add to the 'while you're in there list', right? :017:
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What kills the fun is the exhaust - can't get the head out without getting that out of the way. A couple summers ago doing the head on the maroon car a buddy said, 'just take the top engine steady off...rotate the motor forward so the header can drop off the studs'. WOW! Awesome - but not working for this one! Engine is solid still...removing the stupid 'Y' pipe KILLS me...ARGH!!!!!
I just take the studs out, then the header will come straight up - easy button is to double nut them.
I use these with great success, haven't had one fail yet, and they def keep the motor cool, even on 95* Kansas summer days!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255136031546?_skw=classic+Mini+radiator&itmmeta=01JF8XD8ZGCEV8G9MHW0NZ41VN&hash=item3b674ae33a:g:g2UAAOSw3bFmb5sQ&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKnCl%2FoFZZ%2BimawflEjuX8sh1atMlBcZ2TOfZSL9DdIWB6FXJm2%2Bi3zlz5rJ0cW1XvXHiDr3PphUJoZeKqGCCobDwZ4CFmNcXtJ8%2FxHwY1FMCcNjCeX8oqnnxTvknBYYDszB7lbJ%2FhsyPXTte51yzo%2FLuHGQtWKHHdrN77dSDThDYEPhoH9zRAYm0NiQdss8pLkliW%2Bg8xBgGRMYv2fxnurCJvef6qqYMrIjIbDQxY%2F1sTGJMGecfgbUNsFWp5XgXIg%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_CPtZ36ZA
I have read several times that Keith Calver switched to using bolts for the manifolds to make things easier to remove. Even on his race cars.
I double nut them too, but bolts sound like a good idea too
Quote from: Mudhen on December 16, 2024, 03:32:07 PMAnd hey, when you're redoing your suspension it's probably what most people add to the 'while you're in there list', right? :017:
It's that mentality that has kept my car off the road since 2019 😬. At least you have a couple back-ups.
Quote from: ADRay on December 17, 2024, 04:45:19 AMQuote from: Mudhen on December 16, 2024, 03:32:07 PMAnd hey, when you're redoing your suspension it's probably what most people add to the 'while you're in there list', right? :017:
It's that mentality that has kept my car off the road since 2019 😬. At least you have a couple back-ups.
This is your year, I feel it! :dance:
I was wondering about the bolt thing since that's what the r53s use - this one had bolts at the ends, studs in the middle. The bolts came straight out, two of the studs came out...but one of the others is stuck, double nuts spinning...and the last is a short stud so not sure I can get the two nuts on it. I *think* this car has a lower engine brace as well which might be preventing it from rocking forward...once I get the skidplate off I'll have a look see.
And you read my mind, Dave! So many options of radiators I was going to ask for recommendations - will pick up one of those for the rebuild, thx! :13:
For $88 delivered, that's cheaper than having yours cleaned and re-cored, and I've found the aluminum rads to works way better.
This is turning into quite the winter project!
I've only had one or two studs that required the acetylene torch to get them out, but those were stuck damn tight!
The other thing you can do is remove the head studs, then once you pop the head up, you can slide it off the header. Then when you have it on the bench you can get those last studs out.
I don't bother to paint the metal parts of the cones, I just put a light coating of grease on the lip so it won't rust to the subframe.
I managed to get it off - I got the one longer exhaust stud out, and then the header was able to slide sideways a little so I could lift the head straight up. I tried to get one of the head studs out but it was stuck as well - sure would like to replace them during this project.
Stinks I couldn't get the exhaust all apart, though - even with acetylene I couldn't separate the pieces - brand new Maniflow system 2 years ago so I really hate to put the cutting disc to it - unfortunately, it leaks like a sieve...we get gassed out, which isn't good when you're sitting in line at a rallx waiting your turn to go!
I was psyched to be able to mic up the bore size once it came off - looks like it's definitely something around a 1440cc. I was curious as the guy I bought it from seemed less than up front about the car when I bought it site unseen in Florida so wasn't 100% sure. :13:
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Wish I could get the rest of it to the machine shop as well - not this go around I suppose - I'm just doing the cones! :cheesy:
That's a big motor, how big are the bores? Were they machined offset? Is it a stroke crankshaft?
Doesn't look like it has a lot of runtime since it was built, looks pretty clean in there.....
I'm not all that impressed with Maniflow stuff these days - every one I've installed has leaked and gassed you out - even if I use exhaust sealer on the pipes. I've had them crack in the "y" between 1 and 4, I've had to flatten off the center plate because welding it caused it to pull and warp......I mean, I've seen better stuff....
I think I would rather have the SPi cast iron manifold, from what I've read they flow as well as a header, and they don't leak. Plus they have a gasketed connection to the down pipe....
If you're planning to replace the head studs, I've used a pair of vice grips in combination with a wrench on double nuts and managed to get them out when they're stuck really tight.....messes them up badly, but that doesn't matter if you're going with new ones.
86mm crank and 73mm pistons are a 1440cc. Which is what I've been thinking about doing with the spare 1275 in the shop.
Do you have to clearance the sides of the block and the gearbox case to fit that crank? 73 or 73.5 pistons?
Yes depending on the block and gearbox some mild clearance is required.
Our bores measured about 73.5mm...not sure what the rest of the spec is regarding the crank. Curious what the machine shop will say about the valves, springs, etc. We just got a couple of other engines back from them over the last few months - the one out of 'the rotisserie car' (the original rallycar build car) which they had for about 2 years, lol...the body wasn't done so I never pushed them. That one we *thought* was a 1098 so got the pistons, etc from Calver for going .080 over - but turned out to be a 1275! Oops. We went .060 over on that one...so that's sitting on the floor now.
And we just got the engine pieces back for this '05 - had purchased it with a spun bearing - supposedly it was a JCW, which it turned out to be a fake! ARGH!! I should know better! It had chewed up the crank pretty good on the #1 rod journal so we used a spare one we had...the machine shop went through our spare rods and rings and handed us what to use and we built it back up ourselves - got it running last week and seems good! Other than some misfires and limp modes. :banghead:
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Adding a water pump to my to-do list, and a new 11-blade fan? Can't run the metal one due to the breather on the timing cover supposedly. Made sure to note which way around the fan was on for the re-install - it was backwards!! Glad I'm in here now!
What's the stroke measure in the bore? We have 73.5 pistons and want to say 84mm crank in the Inno, making it a 1425cc. The 86mm cranks and 73.5 pistons make a 1460cc.
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Aren't I going to need some of these thing-a-ma-jiggers? If so, why don't they sell them as part of the set?
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There are slightly different versions of the knuckle joint. Some have a thicker "step" from the gaiter to the shaft, some have a thicker shaft. It depends on the vintage of the car for stock trumpets (thick or thin step) and the style of hi-lo kit (thick or thin shaft).
You can reuse the ones you have unless they're damaged, or as Michael says -they're different and won't fit the hi los you have. I would replace the plastic cups tho. I've had a couple of those fall apart on my car after not a whole lot of miles.....much easier to do them now than after you put it all together and are driving it some.
I think it's pretty funny how compressed those rubber cones get! :grin:
Guess I thought the old ones were all one piece. You'd think if you were ordering HiLos today you would need whatever knuckle joint fits the ones you're ordering so they'd be supplied with them.
So the ball comes out of these? They're not worth anything are they? Was going to just bin them...or should they be saved...
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Ordered that radiator, Dave...and then all the other cooling system stuff (from Minispares) except the silicone hoses which were way cheaper at MiniSport. Going to weld on some strengthening plates where the bump stops hit (switching to the hydrolastic style), top shock mounts, and front tie rod mounts, per HTMYM. And might finally put on the roundels I got - originally were going to go on rear quarter panels but they're too big so maybe the doors instead.
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Order yourself new knuckle joints and throw that trumpet and joint in the trash.
You guys ever use these lower arm bushings before? They wouldn't go into the arms very much, so I used the vice to squeeze them in. I guess what that did was shrink the insides...so now I can't get the pins in - I've started to slowly drill out the insides more and more but wondering if I should just go with a different style at this point.
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Got the shock mount (13ga) and bump stop plate (16ga) welded in/sealed/POR'd...looks like someone had already done the front tie bar gusset. Stuck that little bolt in the bump stop hole just to keep it clean in case I want to go back to it since I'm going to try the progressive mounts that go the other way.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/GalaxyUploads/i-6RQC7TM/0/LH5tW7TwHKd8sxJzPmhsLBFvHLcjW4Z2V9NmJ8L4k/L/20241227_113334-L.jpg)
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I have vise pressed bushings into those before too, but with the pin in the bushing ahead of time
are you sure those require the metal sleeve? Maybe they're supposed to be used without the sleeves?
Quote from: MiniDave on December 27, 2024, 12:23:24 PMare you sure those require the metal sleeve? Maybe they're supposed to be used without the sleeves?
Good question...they didn't come with metal sleeves like the ones I removed...and I didn't put them in, they're just the plastic. Once I put the arm in the vise and used a 1/2" drillbit I was able to just give it a little wiggle and got it big enough to get the pin in - it's tight but moves still. Will give it a go and see what happens.
Started to put the new cup in and backed off...is there anything I need to do? Just push them in as far as they go and then the first big bump will seat them? Or use the vice again and press them in or something.
Feels like I should be over the last hurdle on the fronts - the good news is after doing it once I typically only need help the second through tenth times then I'll have it down. :victory:
Thanks again!
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If you have a small wire brush that will fit on a drill hit em with that. Make sure the small hole in the bottom is open. Put a swipe of grease inside that MAY make it a bit easier to install the cup.
I think I had to tap mine in with a rubber mallet.
If you clean all the rust out like WillieB says, it should slide right in. I also add a smear of grease - and like WB says, make sure that hole is open.....it's pretty small, maybe 1/8"?
Probably closer to 1/16 I bet.
Tiny hole in the plastic cup or the arm? Thought you guys had a screw loose until I turned the arm over and saw a little dimple in my new paint! Opened those up.
Got my new thing-a-ma-jiggers, too - assume the cups that came with the hi-lo's were just for the old ball style trumpet ends and I will now only use the new ones - this is probably not right:
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Looks better:
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Trying to fit things up now - my compression tool stinks, with the T-bar handle. It sits down in the body too much so can't turn it with everything in the way - if it had even just a simple nut on it I could at least get a wrench on it.
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Got an idea a spacer might work...but what would fit?
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Oh ya...
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Happy new year gents!
Looks like you were trying to double cup the knuckle joints :017:
Great spacer idea!
Hoping to be nearing completion of the fronts now...welding/sealing/painting is done, just a few more issues to work through.
Was struggling with how to access the lower bolts and brake line on the drivers side - conveniently enough someone on the mk1 forum had just posted about cutting the inner wing to give access, and how the works rally teams would actually cut it all away. I ended up cutting just an opening with a little cover with riv-nuts and thumb screws so I could get in there but still try to keep some of the dirt out, even though it's still all open underneath anyway!
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My current issue is with the balljoints going into the new lower arms. Which now that I've gone out with a micrometer I've stumbled onto the taper and the fact that these adjustable arms *look* like they can go on either side but the ends can't! :banghead:
Why couldn't I have just gotten lucky and grabbed the correct one...sometimes I'd like it to NOT be a learning experience.
Everything else on the arm should be swappable, though, right? I'm just going to switch the ends...
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Watched a video on the rears - wow, don't even need the tool?!!?! Easy peasy! Ya, on the right side of the guys car with only 1 tank - da fak! Hopefully I can just loosen the tanks and move them a little for the top shock nut?
Haha yes there's an orientation because of the taper. Duh :cheesy:
Quote from: 94touring on January 07, 2025, 02:17:31 PMHaha yes there's an orientation because of the taper. Duh :cheesy:
Don't have to worry about it on stock arms because they only go one way! Too many adjustments will just make more ways I can get it wrong. :rolleyes:
I'm thinking of cutting the rear bulkhead on each side to make openings to get to the shock tops. I mean, I DO have to remove the tanks, correct? No real way around that currently? Although I probably won't want to put the cutting disk in there with the tanks in place, anyway - maybe a sawzall...
Tanks are pretty easy to move out of the way, usually without undoing hoses.
Yes, you can usually move the tank enough to reach in there and remove the top nuts. Remember, they're usually double nutted, a thin lock nut on top.
Unfortunately, I don't have a much play because the hardline kit I used doesn't have a lot of flexible hose.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/RallyMini/i-x8xgBB6/0/Nf7hxVRRnpMHB297K2vGpnFWdgWrc4bmXwbJG2jJq/L/20250107_082658-L.jpg)
Discovered that the rally teams would also cut away the rear bulkhead for access...used a hinged flap over the hole. But with the cage and seats I can't see that it will be a whole lot easier.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/RallyMini/i-W9S65xZ/0/LVn5KmhvHDT6r5vTkTwPGGrnzgRtpwgD3fHkNsn2m/L/20250108_101012-L.jpg)
Think I'm going to hold off on the rear suspension for now - I have rebuilt swingarms to go in and apparently to use the hydrolastic progressive bump stops they need to be welded on, which I assume will mean more welding of the body, too. Just signed up for the first rallyx of the season which is 1/18 so not much time left, anyway.
Hit me this am that I could just do the cones/hi-lo's and leave the shocks in place for now. But of course, foiled again! I can take the nut off the bottom shock bolt but it won't fit between the shock bolt and subframe anyway.
Anyone else's rear subframe need to be notched out for the lower shock mount bolt?
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:017:
I've never had to do any notching.
Yes, but I've also not been able to get the shock out without getting the top loose first, so it can drop down below the subframe crossmember. it might be possible to get the rubber cone out by cutting the long tube, but on the battery box side it could be a challenge.....dunno, haven't tried it.
Quote from: MiniDave on January 09, 2025, 02:26:20 PMYes, but I've also not been able to get the shock out without getting the top loose first, so it can drop down below the subframe crossmember. it might be possible to get the rubber cone out by cutting the long tube, but on the battery box side it could be a challenge.....dunno, haven't tried it.
Oooo...I like that. The cones are so bad I can *almost* pull them out without dropping the swingarm down - will take a look, thx!
10 minutes work and Bob's your uncle...boom! Both old cones out! :celebrate:
But there's no way the new ones are going in now... :cheesy:
What? There's a hole in the subframe so I can use the cone compressor I just need to open a hole in the valence? YES! I can do that!
What? The compressor tool hits the body before I can actually compress the cone (and is too far in so I can't utilize my fancy spacer?).
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/RallyMini/i-5wn5gwf/0/LWSTvBrZ5cMPN68fFPJ4MvV45BsLp22PzN968BNB2/L/20250110_140823-L.jpg)
Was hoping to have the cylinder head back today, too, but now looking like the beginning of next week. Running out of time fast...
I guess I'm incredibly confused. Move tanks, remove shocks, drop arm, cones go right in. Put back together. Worse case drain tanks and remove short lines if tanks don't just slide out of the way.
Quote from: 94touring on January 10, 2025, 12:55:22 PMI guess I'm incredibly confused. Move tanks, remove shocks, drop arm, cones go right in. Put back together. Worse case drain tanks and remove short lines if tanks don't just slide out of the way.
I can't imagine what a huge FPITA it's going to be to move those tanks.
Hope I'm wrong.
Quote from: Mudhen on January 10, 2025, 01:25:45 PMQuote from: 94touring on January 10, 2025, 12:55:22 PMI guess I'm incredibly confused. Move tanks, remove shocks, drop arm, cones go right in. Put back together. Worse case drain tanks and remove short lines if tanks don't just slide out of the way.
I can't imagine what a huge FPITA it's going to be to move those tanks.
Hope I'm wrong.
Way easier than cutting holes in valences and still unable to compress a cone :victory:
At the rate you're going, cut a hole in the rear quarter panels to access the top shock mounts lol :cheesy:
The roll cage is in the way for getting a hole cut in the rear panel.
Looks like you need to come up with a spacer - maybe just a piece of black pipe?
Quote from: 94touring on January 10, 2025, 02:47:13 PMQuote from: Mudhen on January 10, 2025, 01:25:45 PMQuote from: 94touring on January 10, 2025, 12:55:22 PMI guess I'm incredibly confused. Move tanks, remove shocks, drop arm, cones go right in. Put back together. Worse case drain tanks and remove short lines if tanks don't just slide out of the way.
I can't imagine what a huge FPITA it's going to be to move those tanks.
Hope I'm wrong.
Way easier than cutting holes in valences and still unable to compress a cone :victory:
10 minutes to cut the hole...I couldn't have predicted the tool would be too short to reach the cone properly - shouldn't that be what the hole in the subframe is for?
I don't see any way other than draining the tanks...undo one tank hose and I'll have 2 openings to try to plug up while they're pouring out.
Then unbolt the metal pipe from the rear bulkhead to get it out if the way.
Undo top strap. Undo lower strap (super fun with the nut up under the valence)
Try to remove my nice new/super tight filler neck grommets...try to take off the John Cooper covers...assume I won't have to deal with the fitted brass rings on those.
On the '65 with the old worn out seal and regular cap, one tank, I bet the would be easy.
It is what it is at this point I suppose I clearly exhausted all other options. Although I will look at the rear quarter - thanks for that, Dan!
And possibly having to do it multiple times/season will be pure pleasure as well.
Stage events give you 20 minutes for service...probably not doable. LOL
I never remove the tank neck grommets. Apply some wd40 or grease when sliding the necks back in. Use more rubber hoses than hard lines so if you're having to take tanks out on a regular basis for some reason there's no draining required. No need undo bottom strap from the floor, just undo where they meet.
The super tight tank cap brass ring use a mallet and punch and knock them off. I needed to use a very fine amount of black rtv (oil gas resistant) on the one Inno tank because it wasn't perfectly sealing and allowing gas to trickle out when full and making turns as it sloshed fuel around.
I used a puller to get the brass rings off, but you def have to remove those to get the filler neck out of the rubber grommet.
I would have to take another look at your pics, but if you could get like a 4" hole saw back there, that could give you good access to those top nuts.
I assume you have the metric threaded rubber donuts, if so you can buy a chunk of allthread from someplace like Fastenal and make your compressor shaft longer. I made my own puller this way and yes, I welded a nut on the end to turn/hold the shaft and a nut and big washer. For a spacer I just used a chunk of black pipe. The thread size is 14mm X 2mm allthread.....
I have a homemade compressor tool too, extra length rod and a steel pipe for a spacer. However.....swap out your rear shocks now if those are on the to do list and knock the whole job out in one swoop. Doing it all twice ain't no fun.
Left side done! Once I unbolted the metal pipe from the bulkhead and took it off the right side tank I was able to just swing it out of the way to move the left tank in. I did remove the grommet so I didn't have to deal with the brass ring - once I got it started it pulled over the ring pretty easily - hope it goes back in as easily.
Another issue I had was removing that lower shock from the swingarm - as with that notch someone cut in the subframe to allow the lower shock bolt to fit past it - something is causing that swingarm to be REALLY close to the subframe. An issue for another day.
Thanks for all the tips guys.
Very good! Grommet in tact with the brass rings probably makes most sense. Good deal.