Howdy all!
I just recently found this forum and so far great info! I am looking into buying a classic this weekend and wanted to get some feed back. I will post some pics. Please let me know your thoughts on Mk, model and general conditon. From every thing I can tell, using MM ultimate buying guide, Identification index and Chris Reese's book, I am pretty sure the car is a 1966 Austin Cooper S. I would be happy if it was even just a Cooper! But I do not have the most experience with this. The car has crank windows but I have read that was a common retro fit in the MK I & II's. The VIN number on the plate is C-A2S7-85XXXX. I took a picture of the vin but stupidly deleted it. Those are the numbers I remembered. I know that those vin plates can be faked so being cautiously optimistic. Is there a online resource to check the number once I get the full VIN? The motor was replaced by PO, did not see any tappet covers, so not the Cooper S 1275 motor.
The car is in rough shape, but I am okay with that and will take time getting it back to looking good if I go ahead and get it. I took a magnet with, body is in decent shape with no body filler that I found. There is slight surface rust but no through holes. Paint is flaking as it was standing in the sun, currently in a shed.
I am really looking forward to hearing and learning from you guys! Also, please let me know if this is suppose to be posted else where.
Thanks
Here is a good starting place for info on this car.....
https://www.minimania.com/Mini_Identification (https://www.minimania.com/Mini_Identification)
Edi: Oops, looks like you've already been there....sorry
I can't quite tell from the pics, those could be Aussie doors, the decklid seems different to me too....
What are they asking for the car? It will take a LOT of work and money to bring that one back, but it's doable.
Welcome to the forum! Good luck on the purchase!
I did not think the decklid looked out of place, but then again I am no expert. :(
They want $3500
Were there any pics under the hood? did it have dry or hydro suspension?
See that is why i am here, to learn! How does an untrained eye tell the difference between the two suspentions?
No pics of the engine bay.
The windows in the doors jump out to me. (2 pieces of glass) Possibly an aftermarket crank setup?
It looks like an Australian market mini. The doors and the narrower license plate indentation. Hard to tell from pictures but it looks like there could be indentations where the wipers go in the cowl and possible dual holes in the front corner of the drip rails. Another tell of the Australian car is underneath, there are two long metal covers concealing the channels for the hydro lines and fuel/battery.
I am currently restoring a 65 Australian car. I'll see if I have some close ups of these areas when I get home.
My guess is Aussie.
The easiest way to tell if it has hydro is to look under the hood, if you see the hoses it has hydro, if you don't it's ether been converted to dry or never was hydro....if you see the brackets for the hoses but no hoses it was converted.
In this pic, the hose back by the bulkhead that arches up and over is the hydro line.
In the pics it looks like it's sitting low, but not all the way down.
Mark, do the wiper hole locations look right for an Aussie car?
Thanks guys! I appreciate the info! In the forums opinion with the information you have, what should I pay for it?
Hard to say from 3 pics....
But it pretty much needs "everything", how much of it can you do yourself vs paying others?
Point is, there are a lot of nice cars out there that are already done and ready to drive, unless you want this particular car for an express reason or just want a project - why bother with this one?
If it is a cooper S and given the Aussie doors, it may be worth the 3k. But that's a 15k restore minimum doing it yourself or 30k+ paying someone else to do it. The 67s I'm doing he has somewhere in the 40s on his.
There's always this super rare 73 innocenti for sale that will be fully restored and ready to drive very soon. 4.gif
The intention is that I will do most of the work. Probably have it painted by pro's.
I have wanted a Classic for quite some time, +/- 15 yrs. Form looking at MM, other forums and craigslist, there are classic available but usually quite pricey. Some need same amount of work for more expensive or some nicely done for $15k or higher. Seeing that it checked most of the Cooper S check boxes, I was quite excited! Did not consider that it might be an Aussie import. I was even contemplating importing one.
But this is why I am asking, maybe someone can steer me in a better direction? Maybe I can bargain the seller down to a better price? All suggestion and opinions greatly appreciated.
Welcome! Here's my two cents: I think you may need to evaluate what you're looking for in a Mini. Are you looking for something that you can drive and enjoy upon purchase? Because that is very tempting. Or are you looking for something that is going to be a big project/learning experience with the end result eventually being something you can drive and enjoy?
If you are avoiding a complete running car because you think you won't have any opportunities to wrench on it rest assured that with any Mini you will have plenty of opportunities! If you are avoiding a fully functioning running car because of the cost you may need to balance that against what it would cost to buy a nonrunning car and spend the time and effort and money to get it going. Personally, I would opt for the running car that fits within your budget. That way you can experience the fun of owning it without just the pain of working on it again and again until you finally get a nonrunning car finished.
From what I can tell the car you have shown us is being offered at $3000? Is that right? If so, you can easily count on doubling or tripling that to get it finally running and fixed up the way you want it to be. So the alternative would be to perhaps consider a lower-priced running car that you can drive and enjoy and fix up and personalize at the same time. I would look at complete running Minis in the $5000-$10,000 price range which should include some relatively late model Japanese spec Minis. While the Japanese spec Minis are not perfect the fact that they come from Japan, are usually low mileage, and have to pass periodic Shaken tests usually means they are in relatively decent shape. If you can spend more money then you can buy a nicer Japanese Mini.
If this idea interest you I will look to give you a couple of examples of what I'm talking about. Let me know. And good luck on your decision.
Quote from: 94touring on March 14, 2019, 12:15:24 PM
There's always this super rare 73 innocenti for sale that will be fully restored and ready to drive very soon. 4.gif
Yes, but it won't be cheap either! 77.gif
Quote from: bokbfok on March 14, 2019, 12:23:23 PM
The intention is that I will do most of the work. Probably have it painted by pro's.
I have wanted a Classic for quite some time, +/- 15 yrs. Form looking at MM, other forums and craigslist, there are classic available but usually quite pricey. Some need same amount of work for more expensive or some nicely done for $15k or higher. Seeing that it checked most of the Cooper S check boxes, I was quite excited! Did not consider that it might be an Aussie import. I was even contemplating importing one.
But this is why I am asking, maybe someone can steer me in a better direction? Maybe I can bargain the seller down to a better price? All suggestion and opinions greatly appreciated.
You don't have near enough info to make a good decision on this car from a casual glance. There could be (and probably will be ) rust to deal with, and if you're having pros fix it it will be expensive. Does it run? If it needs suspension work (and it will) you could be in for some pretty expensive bits if it has hydro suspension, less so if it's already dry but you still will want to go thru it all. I've spent probably close to $4K so far on the Inno and all I've done are brakes, suspension and a bunch of powedercoating. Haven't even touched the engine. If it hasn't run in a while you'll be spending money to clean and coat the fuel tank and getting it running will probably result in an engine/trans overhaul. Mo money.....
Fine if what you want is a project to have fun with, but you won't be driving it for a year or more, and the world is littered with projects begun in the best of intentions that never get finished.
I'm with Bruce, buy a car you can drive and have fun with - unless your goal is to get a project. In that case, given what this car will need (everything - suspension brakes, fuel, engine/trans overhaul, paint and body work, ties and wheels, interior) you should definitely start low..."free" might be too much to pay for this one!
Unless what you WANT is a project, if it is, then go for it!
We're not trying to dissuade you here - not at all. Minis can be fun to work on, but we want you to know what you're up against - as we don't know you, your capabilities, your shop and equipment we can't judge if you're up for this or not.
Dave - I hear you. I think emotions are leading the decision here. I should probable step back and evaluate. I know I am new here and you don't know me, but I feel that is I am getting honest answers here, which is what I wanted.
So, some background. I am a mechanical engineer in is late 30's. Was a residential contractor for close 15 years before going back to school to get my ME degree. I have been neck deep in rebuilding a 700R4 and chevy small block. I have personally done body work on a truck and 3 stage painted it. So some skills, but by no means an expert. I guess I am saying I am not afraid of the work, but if it can be avoided I will. I currently have 2 gen 1 MINI's and 04 Duramax GMC that is do all my own work on.
That being said, I will definitely take your advice on all aspects! Thanks! I will do some more browsing on what is available out there
If the car is close enough to you, how about going over and taking some pics? Some closeups under the bonnet, rear and sides (sills) of the car will let us give you a lot more input on it. Interior (esp of the speedo) and boot area will answer a lot of questions - and of course the vin plate.
I think we'd all like to see more. If it's always been a local car, chances are good the body is not a rusty hulk like in other parts of the country!
There's a guy named Wild Child in Phoenix that has a lot of classic Minis, give you a chance to drive some cars and learn more about them.
I will see if I can get some more pics. The speedo is definitely not original! I have also been texting the owner in parallel with this thread, I got them to $2200, just as a FYI. No deal yet.
Quote from: MiniDave on March 14, 2019, 12:58:01 PM
I think we'd all like to see more. If it's always been a local car, chances are good the body is not a rusty hulk like in other parts of the country!
From what I have been told, it has been here all of it imported life. No kidding on the rust. I looked at one in Rochester, NY when I was living out there. The sills and lower parts looked like swiss cheese!
If you decide to do a project car, buy a Haynes manual, there are a few "tricks" to taking one of these apart and putting them back together.
Quote from: MiniDave on March 14, 2019, 01:36:11 PM
If you decide to do a project car, buy a Haynes manual, there are a few "tricks" to taking one of these apart and putting them back together.
Thanks, great tip!
As an opposing point of view, here's an example of a running Mini that could be imported from Japan for about $6K all in (car, shipping, custom duties, broker fees, etc.). That's for shipping to Galveston which is not super far away from Arizona. But a west coast port would likely be closer and cost less.
More risk than a car local to you, yes, but potentially more reward too.
https://www.tradecarview.com/used_car_smart/rover/mini/24166830/?isNew=1
And there are other JDM importer websites based in Japan that could provide more information about the car and help you with translated import documents. Or, help you with the search for a different Mini there.
Quote from: BruceK on March 14, 2019, 03:07:07 PM
As an opposing point of view, here's an example of a running Mini that could be imported from Japan for about $6K all in (car, shipping, custom duties, broker fees, etc.). That's for shipping to Galveston which is not super far away from Arizona. But a west coast port would likely be closer and cost less.
More risk than a car local to you, yes, but potentially more reward too.
https://www.tradecarview.com/used_car_smart/rover/mini/24166830/?isNew=1
And there are other JDM importer websites based in Japan that could provide more information about the car and help you with translated import documents. Or, help you with the search for a different Mini there.
OK wow, is see there are options! Thanks!
Yes, but that will be a 998.....
I say go up to Phoenix and visit Wild Child's place, he has a bunch of different Minis and you can drive them and see whether /what will work best for you.
Actually, that Japanese based Mini Bruce posted is a 1275 - SPI/MPI based engine. The ECU is on the visual left behind the grill and in front of the brake booster. That particular car does not appear to have the a/c system often found on the Japanese spec Minis.
Quote from: MiniDave on March 14, 2019, 03:24:23 PM
Yes, but that will be a 998.....
I say go up to Phoenix and visit Wild Child's place, he has a bunch of different Minis and you can drive them and see whether /what will work best for you.
No, that's a 1275 in that Mini. I brought it up to give an example of what is available.
But if it was me, I'd take a more structured approach. The auction houses in Japan that deal with used cars perform very complete inspections on the condition of all the cars that go through them and grade the cars. And there are companies that specialize in exporting JDM cars to the US, such as the one listed below, which offer services for remote buyers such as the translation of the auction sheets and they can also arrange inspection of any potential purchases.
So, using a company like this can provide a better experience since they know what they are doing, and have a good track record. They have a YouTube channel where they shoot a 10-20 minute video of each car they are exporting.
http://pacificcoastjdm.com/
A bit more pricey Mini, but it's already in the US. You may have seen this one.
http://www.japstarimports.com/detail/index.php?p=164
And this used car dealer based in Japan has sold many cars on Bring A Trailer including a Mini or two. He usually bundles shipping in the auctions of his cars.
http://amagasakimotor.net/category/car-stocks/
like this one: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1988-rover-mini-1000/
Tomorrow I plan to list some lower price Minis for sale right here in the US of A.
Welcome to the forum.
I bought a car about like that it's easy to spend $1,000.00 15 times or more during restoration.
My car was solid only needed minor metal work and I saved repaired everything I could countless hours to save parts most people would toss.
I wanted an early mk1 and nothing out there even in the 30k range was restored to any quality I would even consider when you looked close.
And I also wanted a project I did all the body and paint, rebuilt the engine even some of the machine work, rebuilt the gearbox had to make synchros and bore it for the newer style bearing, did all the suspension, glass, most the interior except the sewing/seats. Wheeled and dealt traded etc... for parts saved a nickel everywhere I could.
Point is it took 7 years and over $20,000.00 I/we are not trying you scare you away but I wanted to give an example of what you can get into even doing the work yourself.
As Dave said if like me you want a project go for it still it will cost more than what you probably think you can do it for... unless you think you can do it for 30k then your probably close.
Edit... to add I'm basing that on fully restoring to top notch you can certainly get a mini running and driving and decent for less but still stuff adds up fast.
My car thread is here if you want to see what it took http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=625.0 (http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=625.0)
Quote from: BruceK on March 14, 2019, 04:40:36 PM
Tomorrow I plan to list some lower price Minis for sale right here in the US of A.
Okay, here are some Minis for sale in the US on Craigslist, keeping the budget under an arbitrary $10,500 limit
A very early Mk. I Mini, some assembly (and parts) required ::) This is priced like the fully complete and running Japanese Mini I posted yesterday - so crazy.
https://bend.craigslist.org/cto/d/bend-1960-austin-mini/6835685732.html
An automatic Mini
https://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/d/north-grafton-1987-austin-mini-automatic/6830872847.html
A Mini with a lot of lights
https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/d/wappingers-falls-69-austin-mini/6829891474.html
another one
https://treasure.craigslist.org/cto/d/miami-1979-classic-antique-austin-mini/6838789791.html
A green Mini
https://providence.craigslist.org/cto/d/north-smithfield-1971-morris-mini-1000/6833941119.html
A blue Mini
https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/d/henderson-1969-austin-morris-mini/6832265178.html
A Mini in Arizona
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/d/mesa-1961-morris-mini/6839529901.html
Several more automatics
https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ctd/d/vancouver-1992-rover-mini-mayfair-soft/6838350392.html
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/seattle-1991-classic-mini-rover-mayfair/6831534259.html
https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/houston-1991-mini/6832396861.html
A dark red Mini
https://moseslake.craigslist.org/cto/d/moses-lake-classic-mini-cooper-cc/6809581405.html
A Japanese spec Mini with a/c
https://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/cto/d/lacey-1990-mini-cooper-right-hand-drive/6799927537.html
What looks like a MK. II Mini
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/d/kennesaw-classic-morris-mini-for-sale/6819822928.html
The Mini Van from Oz
https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/cto/d/cape-coral-1972-mini-van/6839235413.html
A Mini in a fancy showroom
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/ctd/d/chantilly-1992-rover-mini-classic/6841290004.html
A silver Mini
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/d/fairfax-1991-rover-mini-cooper-1275cc/6809987461.html
A green Mini with Cosmic wheels
https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/d/temecula-1992-classic-rare-original/6829689102.html
A Mini
https://eastnc.craigslist.org/cto/d/wilson-1989-mini-cooper-classic-30th/6826675131.html
A late model Cooper
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/cto/d/miami-mini-cooper-classic/6838807240.html
Another Mini
https://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/d/colorado-springs-classic-1972-rover/6841628719.html
A race Mini
https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/d/1968-mini-cooper-race-car/6819249101.html
A Mini with pink wheels
https://mattoon.craigslist.org/cto/d/sigel-1984-classic-mini/6837477810.html
A Clubman wagon
https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/houston-1991-mini/6832396861.html
And, on the not-Mini, but sorta Mini front:
a very clean-looking Austin 1300GT model
https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/d/everett-1972-austin-1300gt/6833248797.html
An Austin America
https://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/d/beaverton-66-austin-american-parts-car/6809194911.html
And another America
https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/d/orting-1969-austin-america-rare-updated/6833708802.html
And another
https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/cto/d/grand-rapids-austin-american/6814819286.html
Cheeze louise, spoiled for choice!
Sure are a LOT of Jap imports in that group!
Quote from: MiniDave on March 15, 2019, 08:51:48 AM
Cheeze louise, spoiled for choice!
Choices, yes. The catch is that not not many of them, IMO, are
good choices.
Bruce - Thanks for the leg work! I will do some looking
Quote from: bokbfok on March 15, 2019, 09:23:57 AM
Bruce - Thanks for the leg work! I will do some looking
You're welcome. Pick a couple and as a group we can help you evaluate pros/cons on them if you want.
Quote from: BruceK on March 15, 2019, 09:11:40 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on March 15, 2019, 08:51:48 AM
Cheeze louise, spoiled for choice!
Choices, yes. The catch is that not not many of them, IMO, are good choices.
Yeah, a lot of 998 autos, and a lot of "normal" rust..... ::)
That Austin 1300 GT was interesting.
Quote from: Whee on March 15, 2019, 11:49:05 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on March 15, 2019, 09:44:53 AM
Quote from: BruceK on March 15, 2019, 09:11:40 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on March 15, 2019, 08:51:48 AM
Cheeze louise, spoiled for choice!
Choices, yes. The catch is that not not many of them, IMO, are good choices.
Yeah, a lot of 998 autos, and a lot of "normal" rust..... ::)
That Austin 1300 GT was interesting.
A good candidate for stealing the engine from if it were cheaper :)
Yeah, just like all the Austin Americas with the 1275 engines and manual transmissions were sacrificed to power Minis.
Hi all,
Figured I needed to update this. Thanks for all the input on this thread and in PM's.
I ended up buying the car and have had some time with it. And yes, a project is what I was leaning towards.
To answer some of the questions that were asked.
It had a hydrolastic suspension but has been converted to dry. It has a Weber dcoe 45 carb (yeah, not standard), the motor looks really clean on the inside through the fill hole. The oil was good looking when I pulled the dip stick. I drained the oil and replaced with fresh. The fuel lines were all gunk'd up as expected. I rebuild the carb and got a battery. I fired it up and it ran. 4.gif I will now proceed to clean the rest of the fuel system, replaced rubber lines and clean and re-coat the tanks. I also noted a leak between the head and block, so I will be replaced the HG. There is a lot of work ahead of me and I am really excited about it. I will keep you all posted on progress. I did get manuals to help.
Thank all!
Glad to see another Classic Mini get adopted by someone who will bring it back to great condition again!
What kind of oil did you use? Since this engine has a flat tappet cam be sure to use something with added zinc.
Here's the proof of what happens when you don't....look at the pitting and scoring on these lifters out of our Innocenti engine....
I just used stp 20wx50 for a "flush". I found some oil that has added zinc that I will use in the future, but also bought ZDDPPLus to add into the oil.
There you go.... 77.gif
Thanks for the heads up though!
Congrats on the purchase. Curious if the shell is Australian or if it just has the doors. 4 places on the shell have differences. The boot plate indentation is narrower, the roof drip rail has 2 holes in each corner, the cowl has indentations for the wipers and under the car would be long metal covers for the old hydro lines. Also, if it has the original wiper motor it would be stamped Australia.
Quote from: gr8kornholio on April 23, 2019, 06:23:26 PM
Congrats on the purchase. Curious if the shell is Australian or if it just has the doors. 4 places on the shell have differences. The boot plate indentation is narrower, the roof drip rail has 2 holes in each corner, the cowl has indentations for the wipers and under the car would be long metal covers for the old hydro lines. Also, if it has the original wiper motor it would be stamped Australia.
With that info, I am pretty sure it is an Aussie shell. It does not have the long metal plates, but there is channels and places for bolts.
Probably ditched those when they converted to dry suspension. Pretty cool to know another Aussie mini is being saved.
I am going to try my best to get her up and running and looking good.
Does any one out there know if or where I can find a lock set (2 door, 2 fuel cap and 1 boot handle) that all work on the same key? Second best would be to have two fuel caps that work on one key. I have emailed MM, Mini Spares and one other, they all seam unable to help.
Thanks
The gas caps will not have the same key, Ignition key was always different than the door keys, both in number and shape/style - at least on the later cars with a steering column lock. Only the very early cars may have had the same ign and doors/boot key.
So on 70's car you should have an all three - ign, doors/boot and gas cap keys.
Do you really need locking gas caps?
Good point.
I cut off the ones on the Inno and went to Monza caps.
I may do the same with my green car, it still has a locking cap.
Quote from: Willie_B on April 24, 2019, 09:23:54 AM
Do you really need locking gas caps?
I didn't think I did, but a work colleague's daughter had sugar poured in to her car tank. I am sure there is a back story. Maybe I will just have to play the odds and not piss any one off?
If you are looking for gas caps in UK sites be aware they are called petrol caps instead. You may be able to ask if they have some keyed the same.
Congratulations on getting a Mini!
Hey Whee,
Thanks, I have not yet any fellow Mini people in Tucson, It would be great if you could introduce us! I am hoping to be at the next rendezvous in the rockies.
Any chance of getting a list of attendees or names matched to the cars?