Electrification

[MiniDave]

More and more we seem to be moving towards an electric car life - I for one do not mind it at all, I think the improvements in battery tech will come and if you've ever driven a Tesla or even an electric go kart, you know how addicting electric motor torque is.

So this is an interesting take on adding up to 150 hp to an existing car - in this case the Honda Civic Type R. Motor Trend did a story on this system but I haven't found it yet. To me both the noise and the price are objectionable, but they will figure that out eventually.

I've seen where companies are springing up to convert classic cars such as an E-Type to Tesla-style electric power, as the price comes down and battery tech improves I think we'll see more of this and frankly, I'm excited for what the future holds - we may see those atomic powered cars yet! I hope I'm around to see it.

[Jims5543]

I may have neglected on updated regarding my BMW i3.  No time to search.


We purchased less than a year ago, prior to purchase, we were spending $250 a month on gas for our JCW Mini (which we miss) and now spend $40 a month on electricity.

We also discovered there is a new charging station downtown powered by solar that is FREE. Mrs5543 used it 2 days ago, she was downtown for a haircut, she plugged in at 20% battery when she came back she was at 95% for FREE.

I love playing a game at red lights, the 0-40 on the i3 is staggering fast.  So I enjoy punching the throttle and forcing people in sporty cars to struggle to keep up.  Since I have instant torque, I typically pull 10 cars on them if they are not trying, 3-4 cars on them if they are trying.

I had a guy in an Infinity next to me, with a young guy driving, windows down stereo thumping. Changed lanes as he was coming to the red light to get around the slow ass electric car.

LMAO, for 2 lights he was mind blown, I could hear his engine screaming next to me, my car is silent, that adds to the LOL's.   He could not outrun me.

I recently took it on a long trip, post to follow.

[Jims5543]

We took the i3 up to Orlando a few of weeks ago, I looked on google maps, 130 miles one way to the Hotel in Downtown Orlando.

I left the house with a full battery and about 1.5 gallons of gas in the tank (2.3 total capacity)

Once I hit 75% battery I kicked on the gas motor and ran that, I stopped about 60 miles into the trip to Orlando to top off the 2.3 gallon tank, I squeezed 2.4 gallons in.

Then I messed up and turned on then off the gas motor, so I was unknowingly running on battery, I looked down and was at 48% battery capacity, then realized what I did, I turned on the gas motor and then drove to the hotel on gas the last 70 miles.

When I go to the hotel I had used up that 2.4 gallons of gas and the battery was at 45%.

The hotel had a fast charger. We gave the valet the keys to the car with the fob for the fast charger and they charged the car up for us that evening.

The trip home.

We left Orlando with no gas and 100% battery I stopped 10 miles east of Orlando and topped off the tank. We were taking I95 home and were going due east to 95.

I waited again until battery hit 75% then switched on the gas motor (you have to be at 75% or less to switch over) then drove all the way to Vero Beach from Orlando on 25% Battery / 2.4 gallons of gas, that was 100 miles exactly.

We topped off the tank and we were close enough to home to take the back roads the rest of the way.  I used the Range Extender (gas motor) for the last 40 Miles, we stopped off in Fort Pierce for Lunch on out way.  We used 0.3 gallons of gas and then another 25% of the battery for that portion of the trip. Which was mostly back roads.


Conclusion:

This is not  road trip car, you will stop for gas every 100 miles and even though you are using the gas motor, at 70+ mph* you are eating battery too, the gas generator cannot keep up with the power demand.  I was seeing about 1% drop every 10-15 miles at 75MPH.

*The car does not want you to exceed 75 MPH, I kept the car in Eco mode which is a lower power mode for the engine and HVAC.  Uses less battery that way.   There are 3 settings:

Comfort Mode - Full motor power full HVAC Ice cold air.

Eco Mode - Engine power reduced HVAC power reduced, acceptable air, barely on a 100+ Heat Index day.

Eco Plus Mode - Engine power greatly reduced, cannot go faster than 55 MPH and no HVAC at all.

Eco is a nice compromise that you can live with fine to get another 20 - 30+ Miles range out of the car.

When we were in Orlando I needed to accelerate to get ahead of some cars in order to merge, It was clear up ahead and packed behind me, getting ahead made sense. I was doing 75 already, I pushed down the accelerator and nothing happened I floored it and it finally responded I was able to get up to 90 MPH quickly get ahead and slow back down to 75 in the 65 MPH zone.

I drove more miles going home but used less battery and gas, mostly because I was not going as fast, this car hates interstate speeds, it would be great on 2 lane roads putting along at 50 MPH all day long.  Crank up to 75 and it is not happy.

For what Mrs5543 uses it for, all surface roads lots of lights / traffic etc.. It works flawlessly.

She loves it and is the one that wanted to leave the E30 home and take the i3 to Orlando.

Next time we take the E30 and do 100 all the way up.  :D


FYI - We have almost 20K miles on it it has needed nothing. Flawless maintenance free car. I want one as a field car.

[jeff10049]

I am waiting for the E mini to come out next year I want to see it before buying an electric car. And I will buy an electric car soon  I think I really want a tesla but I want to see the E mini first.

Probably end up with a tesla for range and performance reasons. We have a few customers with tesla model s and 3 cars they would do that Orlando trip no problem without worrying about gas or range at all. You would, of course, need to charge up at least once but you did that anyway.

Not knocking the I3 for your use it sounds great but the straight electric cars seem to have better range than an electric with range extender engine that can barely make it between gas stations.And seem to use alot of gas as well 41.6 mpg while supplemented with electric kinda sucks I think. But as you say for Mrs5543's normal use it's perfect.

I think the E mini is based on i3 platform without the engine interested to see what the range will be.

[MiniDave]

You know they did the EMini before, right? They ran a pilot program of them what 8 or 10 years or so ago? 1 year lease only for like $800/month, like those GM cars from 1990 they made everyone turn them in at the end of the lease - although they did extend some leases an extra year for $500 month. only available in LA and New York City IIRC

Range was about 100-115 miles back then, should be at least twice that now I'd think.

An electric would make complete sense for me too - as a city car. But out here in Ks I'd need at least the range of a Tesla to go anywhere outside of town. I couldn't make it to Dan's shop for example - I would need a Prius setup or Bolt. My niece just bought a new Prius, it's averaging 65+ mpg in her commute.

[MiniGene]

Electric is no doubt getting better and bigger.  More and more people are open to it too.  I think it would be amazing to have solar power at home so you could charge it for "free" each night.  (I say free, not taking into account for the investment in equipment.)

I want to see somebody make a bolt in E-conversion kit for the classic mini.

[MiniDave]

I want to see the solar system that will charge at night!  77.gif

[jeff10049]

Net metering the grid is your battery bank sell back in daytime peak use and buy back cheaper at night off peak to charge the car. 10 panels made my electric bill zero I figure I need to add about 4-5 more to zero out an electric car.

[BruceK]

If I was an aftermarket supplier I'd be working to develop some type of a universal retrofit system to add electric power to classic cars.   Something that would mate up to bell housings allowing old gearboxes to be retained perhaps?

[MiniDave]

A local group does that with Karman Ghias, the electric motor is lighter than the VW engine, but then you have to add all the batteries and controller and wiring - the cables heavy enough to carry the current are frickin heavy.

I think the key is still batteries, if/when they come up with batteries that don't weigh a ton, then this will be more effective.

[MiniGene]

I want to see the solar system that will charge at night!  77.gif

Hahaha!  Not exactly what I meant, but good poke, nonetheless!   :D

[MiniGene]

...add all the batteries and controller and wiring - the cables heavy enough to carry the current are frickin heavy.

I think the key is still batteries, if/when they come up with batteries that don't weigh a ton, then this will be more effective.

True, but the industry is headed in the right direction to push the R&D to the point where this is going to happen.  I think it's exciting to watch the shift.
More than ever car manufacturers have electric options now.  That said, I don't think I'll see the extinction of dino-gas powered cars in my lifetime.

[Vikram]

I'm going to be Negative Nancy over here and say that I don't like electric cars currently.

I simply don't get the appeal of them and find nothing exciting about them. Not trying to talk down to people who do like them, everyone is entitled to their preferences and opinions.

In my opinion, I find electric cars bland and uninspiring. Yes they're efficient and Eco friendly and theyre making great technological leaps but what appeals to the car enthusiast?

They look like any modern sedan styling wise. As far as performance goes, yes some are blindingly quick but I feel the experience is completely lost without sound. Performance is a sensation its not just out right speed. Piping synthesised sound doesn't work either, that's like called a veggie steak a proper steak; it's just not. Track days are also a short affair because the drain rate is exponential in their performance modes. But that will be fixed in time.

I know I'm not being progressive here, but I hope we never truly lose the combustion engine.

[MiniDave]

I read an article 5 years ago that predicted the ICE would be gone by 2025......I think that's very optimistic. Like MiniGene, I don't think I'll see the end of them in my lifetime...but then, I'm old!   ;D

[94touring]

Slightly off topic but the ice thing made me think about the articles I've read where ice a zillion years old melts and they find forest, animals, people ect... then flip out and go off on global warming.  Then you stop and think the ice wasn't always there, which is why you find forest, animals, and people! 

I think in the 70s they said it would all be gone by the 90s too.

[MiniGene]

In my opinion, I find electric cars bland and uninspiring. Yes they're efficient and Eco friendly and theyre making great technological leaps but what appeals to the car enthusiast?

I agree, many of them are bland and uninspiring............but how many bland uninspiring petrol cars are there?  There will always be fun and exciting cars and then Camrys and Accords.  LOL

[gr8kornholio]

I'll ask the never talked about environmental question.  Based solely on thought and no research at this time. 

The side no one talks about is what kind of pollution is generated creating all the electronics and batteries?  We know from small electronics like phones and computers you aren't supposed to just throw them away.   What do we do then with an entire electric car  when they die?  We humans love to come up with solutions that in the end are worse off than the problem they solved.

If anyone has on hand some research about this end of the spectrum I'd love to read it.

[MiniDave]

BMW in particular has been on a heavy recycling kick for decades, I don't know about the other mfrs, but I think Tesla wants all their cars back too.

To me, the bigger issue right now is the stuff batteries are made of, key ingredients are only available in places where mining is not regulated, controlled or even safe.....and some of those ingredients are toxic in their refined state.

Then there's the whole issue of how the electricity is generated, and the fact that on some hot summer days the electrical grid can barely sustain the usage we have, let alone when you add the load of millions of cars recharging on it. I know most recharging will be done at night, but this is a whole new load being added to the grid, and a percentage will be done in the peak hours.

I admit the addition of wind and solar will help, but it all travels on the same grid.

So......issues yet to be resolved - cost effective home solar or wind generation so that the load doesn't fall on the existing grid, and batteries with far more capacity made out of non-precious and widely available and recyclable materials. I'm sure there's more to it than what I've mentioned too......

[MiniGene]

I haven't done any research but you're probably right about the battery material and the issues with the generation of the electricity in the first place.  I've heard some refer to electric cars as "coal powered cars" and if you get your electricity from a coal burning plant then that statement isn't wrong.  ATM, there is NO perfect solution to clean, sustainable human transportation.  A bunch of compromises all the way around.  I think we're headed in the right direction.

I still do like the idea and I've been "jonesing" for a motorcycle from Zero Cycles.  They are an electric motorcycle maker from northern California.  I had some time today so I checked out the local Triumph dealer who is also the Zero dealer for the area.  If you like the look of a naked street bike (without a traditional engine) they'd be up your alley.  They would be great as a commuter bike, or weekend rider but you couldn't do any real traveling with them.

[MiniDave]

Put your finger right on the button.....perfect for city commuting, not so good for anything else, and no real flexibility. Jim's story about his BMW i3 is a perfect example.

Tesla is doing better, and by setting up their superchargers all over the US they're a leg up on everyone else, but it's still not the complete answer. Imagine trying to do what my brother and I are going to do next week. drive from St. Louis to Bend Oregon....not possible in real time with current tech.

[MiniGene]

Yup, you're right.  Good thing your nephew didn't buy an electric Forester-haha.   :-\

[Jims5543]

I am waiting for the E mini to come out next year I want to see it before buying an electric car. And I will buy an electric car soon  I think I really want a tesla but I want to see the E mini first.

Probably end up with a tesla for range and performance reasons. We have a few customers with tesla model s and 3 cars they would do that Orlando trip no problem without worrying about gas or range at all. You would, of course, need to charge up at least once but you did that anyway.

Not knocking the I3 for your use it sounds great but the straight electric cars seem to have better range than an electric with range extender engine that can barely make it between gas stations.And seem to use alot of gas as well 41.6 mpg while supplemented with electric kinda sucks I think. But as you say for Mrs5543's normal use it's perfect.

I think the E mini is based on i3 platform without the engine interested to see what the range will be.

If we purchased the i3 without the REX it would have another battery cel and then have an electric range in the 140 mile range, which is not impressive like the Tesla cars. Except, for what we needed it for, 100 miles a day of commuting, it would have been a good choice as well.

We opted for the Hybrid setup because we did not like the idea of range anxiety.  Having never owned an EV we were weary of it.  So we decided to play it safe and get the REX model so we know we have 200+ miles of range, and more if we stop every 100 miles and add 2 gallons of gas.

Prior to buying the i3, Mrs5543 was commuting with the 05 JCW Mini Cooper S, she was putting 2 tanks of premium gas a week in it.  Gas at the time we sort of cheap so we calculated it out to be $260 a month, it is more like $300 a month, to be honest, in gas.

The i3 changed our electric bill $40 a month.  She may buy 1-2 gallons of gas a week now, so add in another 10.

We went from spending almost $300 a month to $50 a month to commute over 500 miles a week.

To be honest, we use it all weekend too, and in that case we only use electric. 


The car is made from all recyclable materials from the interior bits to much of the outside, I would imagine the carbon fiber chassis is not recyclable and I think the batteries are in multiple cells now and can be recycled as well.

I did not buy this car to save the earth, I bought it to save my wallet.  In three years it will have paid for itself.  We paid 18K for it out the door, we sold the JCW for 8K so we were spent 10K to upgrade to an EV.  Saving $250 a month on gas, we will realize a break even point in 40 months.

Ironically that is when our son is done with school and we will not be commuting anymore.  Then I want it so I can turn it into a work truck.  :D  I am not joking either.

I keep going back to this work truck and toying with putting a deposit on it.

https://electrek.co/2018/01/09/workhorse-opens-reservation-electric-pickup-truck/


As far as being soulless, I guess, if you like exploding gasoline then I guess I get it, I love the tech in this thing and I love the instant torque, I would love to try a Model S or 3 I bet they take off even faster.

Here is a fun video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARzujfRiQ3c


All that said, I still love getting into the E30 and hooning it around making tire smoke and loud engine noises.  Except here is the funny part, I can rocket away from a red light in the i3 and no one notices. If I do the same in the E30 there is a good chance I am getting pulled over.

[Jims5543]

Just drove 75 miles round trip to meet my parents for dinner.  We picked up my older son on the way up who had never been in the i3 before.

He kept breaking out in laughter every time we took off from a red light, remarking how mind blowing it was to take off so fast and make no noise at all.


I used gas for 20 miles of the trip or about 1/4 of a gallon.  Did not need it, I turned it on to show my son how quiet the gas motor was. I arrived back home with 30% battery and could have made entire trip on Electric.

I was going to take the E30 except 2 weeks ago I blew a hose on it, I drive it Friday and on Saturday morning, my coolant level light was on. I topped off the fluid and just did not want to chance a 75 mile trip and having a problem. So the electric car was thrown on charge at 4 PM  for a 6 PM departure to dinner. Left with 97% battery.

At one point a cat in a F150 changed lanes at a red light to get next to me so he would not be stuck behind me after the light turned green. One of my favorite things in the world lately.

He was a good 20 cars back by 50 MPH.   ;D

Then a guy in a Hyundai of some sort did the same on the way home, same result at the first light, a little closer at the second as I could hear his engine screaming to keep up.  My son was laughing his ass off as it is the ultimate troll.

I would not want to take this car down the tail of the dragon, but in town from red light to red light, it provides fantastic entertainment.

[MiniGene]

That's funny!!  I can't imagine it's much of a cop magnet either with its looks and lack of exhaust note.

[jeff10049]

I'd like a new truck I would be reserving one of these but the tow capacity of 5000 is a little low for my needs I'm hoping they have a 2500 version coming after this. I emailed them about what happens if you tow say 10000 can it will it? does it break it? just shorten the range? I need to tow about 8,000 on a monthly or more basis but not very far. I like the fact that I could commute on pure electric but unlimited range with gas. And the truck has a 30 amp power outlet thats pretty cool.
https://workhorse.com/pickup/