MkI Seatbelts

[Spitz]

Does anyone have pics (or ideas) on mounting of seat belts in a MkI Van.

My 61 has no provisions for seat belts at all.  A previous owner had fitted lap belts, but mounted though wafer thin metal, in the wrong place...those mount holes will be fixed/welded over.

Unlike a saloon or PUP a shoulder harness can't easily be mounted as there isn't really a B pillar.  I could mount a strengthening plate and nuts to the tunnel to receive a lap belt

I see that MINI machine sells 31.33.01.17 , which is inner and outer sill with what looks like a lap belt provision....but my sills are fine and don't feel like cutting them out

Can a nut successfully and safely be welded to the inner sill and hold fast in an abrupt stop?

[MiniDave]

Since you have the car on the rotisserie, you can definitely patch in a plate with a captive nut. My 1980 Estate has shoulder belts, so while there won't be anything already in the B pillar of your car if you go look at a later model car I'm sure you can see how to weld in a nut to bolt the pivot to.....

My car is currently at Dan's shop, so maybe he could take a couple of pics for you.

Whatever you do you will need to add a reinforcing plate to spread the load.

[94touring]

Yeah I'll snap pics when I get back home next week. 

[Spitz]

Thanks.....keep in mind though the van doesn't have the post there for a shoulder belt ( as far as I recall....have to look closer at lunch time )

[MiniDave]

I'm pretty sure the B pillar on the van is the same as that on the wagon......except for having the window opening filled with sheet metal, but I could be wrong about that - I haven't looked closely at the one on a van.

You might have to get creative and make something, but I think adding the shoulder belts is worthwhile.......

This place sells them in any color you want for $65 ea......

http://www.seatbeltsplus.com/product/WSCH201P.html?gclid=Cj0KEQiAyIayBRDo4vjdqJrgxZ0BEiQAhOYCYCw484hdK_nml9zJJo5JaofHiNXwZYC8wuZJMAjyXGAaAtSf8P8HAQ

[Spitz]

In looking at it again, there should be enough for a shoulder....I'd have to get an enforcing plate in behind there somehow.
I've included a couple pictures of where the PO had mounted lap belts.  Obviously that centre mount is not up for the job...that's a vertical support for the load bed.  The floor mounting holes were simply drilled through a single layer of sheet metal.

[MiniDave]

I suppose what he did was better than nothing........but you're right, he did it wrong. Not only is that support not strong enough for the load, the direction of force in an accident would be all wrong - that thing would simply bend forward......

Reinforcing plates under the floor for sure, and you'd have to fab something for the shoulder part. When Dan gets home he can post a pic of how the factory did it on my wagon, maybe that will give you some ideas

[94touring]

Yeah those are not right.  The factory spots on the inner sill and tunnel with backing plates and a captive nut are the way to do it. 

[Spitz]

I wont be able to get to the back of the inner sill though.....can a more substancial plate welded to the inner sill be adequate....some measurements of positioning would be great.  I have an estate also, but no belts in that at all.

Strengthening plates in the tunnel are no problem

[94touring]

Sure you can.  Just cut out a rectangle as big as the support plate you want, cut a thick piece of metal the same size, drill a hole, weld a captive nut on it, weld it back in place. 

[MiniDave]

There's a van with shoulder belts, shows it can be done.....if you scroll thru the pics on the green van that's posted for sale, it has the belts.....

[MPlayle]

Just saw the thread.  The later vans came with the factory mounting points for shoulder belts.  They had the captive nuts on the tunnel, the inner sills and the b-pillar.  They usually had static belts, but you could easily change to retractable belts as I did in the green van MiniDave is referring to.

[Spitz]

Sure you can.  Just cut out a rectangle as big as the support plate you want, cut a thick piece of metal the same size, drill a hole, weld a captive nut on it, weld it back in place.

I've lost a bit of this in "translation".
Do you mean cut out a piece of the inner sill and replace it with a thicker piece?  Can one not just weld a thicker piece on top?
Or...do you mean cut a piece out so you can wweld a nut on the new piece so it sits "inside" the sill?
I still have to wonder how strong that would be....but I suppose it's basically what the factory did.

I have an old MkIV here...I think the belts are still in it.  I may just go with lap belts after all

[94touring]

Stop and think about it.  The factory has the stock 19 gauge metal then another piece of maybe 16 gauge spot welded to that, with the captive nut.  You'll weld in the same thickness or thicker depending on your steel and put on a captive nut and weld it back in place.  Essentially the exact same thing.  The thicker section simply keeps the nut from ripping through on impact and the perimeter surface area of the thick section gives it more to pull from, plus the force is primarily going forward anyways unless it's a side impact. 

[Spitz]

Understood....but:
"Do you mean cut out a piece of the inner sill and replace it with a thicker piece?  Can one not just weld a thicker piece on top?
Or...do you mean cut a piece out so you can wweld a nut on the new piece so it sits "inside" the sill?"

excuse my dumbness....it's my Friday

[94touring]

You want the captive nut on the back, so cutting it out is required.

[Spitz]

Got it....makes sense now.

As I recall...the last MINI seat belts I took out were about a 5/8" UNF...sound about right?

[94touring]

Yeah they're fairly big.  Grade 8 fine threads.