Restoration-Mini

Technical Forums => Maintenance and Modifications => Topic started by: John Gervais on June 19, 2020, 03:55:17 PM

Title: Octane, carbon deposits and ignition timing's effect on exhaust gas temperature
Post by: John Gervais on June 19, 2020, 03:55:17 PM
In my pursuit of a better-running, cleaner engine, I've pulled a few key sentences from these articles. 

My engine has developed some heavy carbon deposits and when the engine is under load when cruising down the highway, the center exhaust tunnel gets extremely hot - pretty much impossible to touch.

So, although my carb appears to be adjusted correctly (CO values confirmed at my local VAT station) and the mini appears to drive 'fine', there's an ever-worstening carbon crust forming on the piston tops and likely the valve stems as well.

What I've found embedded in these articles:

From the article on commercial cleaning of carbon deposits:

And the other article on ignition timing's effects on exhaust temperature:


So - I'm going to advance my ignition timing a tad and next time I fill up, it'll not be the high octane Shell V-Power, but regular unleaded.  Let's see what happens -


Title: Re: Octane, carbon deposits and ignition timing's effect on exhaust gas temperature
Post by: 94touring on June 19, 2020, 05:25:55 PM
Do you have a wideband to see how efficiently you're burning fuel at cruise?  Is your max timing between say 30 and 34°? 
Title: Re: Octane, carbon deposits and ignition timing's effect on exhaust gas temperature
Post by: MiniDave on June 19, 2020, 05:36:10 PM
If your cylinders, valves and tops of the pistons are heavily encrusted with carbon like you think they are, then your compression ratio is now higher too, reducing the octane could result in detonation ("pinking") which is a very bad thing. Bumping the timing will also increase the chance of this if you have heavy buildup......

The only real cure is to do what we used to do back in the 60's - pull the head and take a wire brush in a drill to the carbon and clean it off.

But for sure check the timing and set it like Dan says at between 30-34* BTDC @3-4K rpm, vacuum line disconnected.
Title: Re: Octane, carbon deposits and ignition timing's effect on exhaust gas temperature
Post by: John Gervais on June 19, 2020, 05:46:19 PM
Yep - in fact, tmsmith recently sent a couple of replacement lambda sensors that I could use to see if mine was working properly.

I'd have to put the timing light back on it to see where the timing is at 5K, but if I remember correctly, it's currently around 31° max (9.5CR, modest 997 Cooper camshaft).

Y'all set timing at 3-4K even though the distributor keeps advancing 'til 5K (2500)?

The green graph was pulled from The Mini Forum (UK) -
Title: Re: Octane, carbon deposits and ignition timing's effect on exhaust gas temperature
Post by: 94touring on June 19, 2020, 06:24:09 PM
What air fuel ratios are you seeing?
Title: Re: Octane, carbon deposits and ignition timing's effect on exhaust gas temperature
Post by: John Gervais on June 19, 2020, 06:54:08 PM
The gauge fluctuates a bit, but cruising at 70 mph(ish) shows around 13.8 - 14.5 AFR.

By the way - the Aldon Yellow that I'm using has no vacuum advance and is essentially new, direct from Aldon.  I've got under 1000 miles on it.  I had an old, genuine Lucas Aldon Yellow distributor re-shafted/re-bushed (http://www.distributordoctor.com/ (http://www.distributordoctor.com/)) and sent it to Aldon for re-calibration/re-curving to 'Yellow' specs.
Title: Re: Octane, carbon deposits and ignition timing's effect on exhaust gas temperature
Post by: 94touring on June 19, 2020, 07:38:46 PM
You shouldn't be having any issues then.  8.gif
Title: Re: Octane, carbon deposits and ignition timing's effect on exhaust gas temperature
Post by: John Gervais on June 19, 2020, 07:41:59 PM
I'll check the timing again tomorrow - you're using between 3K - 4K (~32° @ 3500 engine rpm)?

I think I may have used 5K.
Title: Re: Octane, carbon deposits and ignition timing's effect on exhaust gas temperature
Post by: 94touring on June 19, 2020, 07:48:47 PM
I'm using curve 8.
Title: Re: Octane, carbon deposits and ignition timing's effect on exhaust gas temperature
Post by: John Gervais on June 19, 2020, 08:08:11 PM
Hmmm - the 'yellow' seems close to the blue #6 at the bottom end and the #7 at the top end.
Title: Re: Octane, carbon deposits and ignition timing's effect on exhaust gas temperature
Post by: 94touring on June 19, 2020, 08:14:44 PM
On the dyno I was timed a bit high...36 or 38 or something, and there was no loss in power dialing it back down to 32.  I'll be switching to mapped ignition when I go turbo to pull advance out under boost.  I'll create a map that mimics what I currently run for anything in vacuum and pull it back to 22-24° under full boost. 
Title: Re: Octane, carbon deposits and ignition timing's effect on exhaust gas temperature
Post by: 94touring on June 19, 2020, 08:25:49 PM
Quote from: John Gervais on June 19, 2020, 08:08:11 PM
Hmmm - the 'yellow' seems close to the blue #6 at the bottom end and the #7 at the top end.

My car comes on better with more advance sooner.  I can lug around in 3rd or 4th in low rpms and it takes off.