I am about ready to drop the engine in. As soon as I do some drilling in the subbie to accomodate the engine mount adapters going from auto box to manual.
Is there anything I need to be aware of that I should connect to the engine first before putting the engine in ? Or anything in the bulkhead that I may not be able to easy do later ?
I have the speedo cable on , the driveshafts should just slip in pretty easy on the hardy spicer.
Should I put the exhaust manifold on first, any clutch parts ( slave cylinder/ arm etc.? )
Also on the rod change linkage....I have the steady bar that it came with on there, but I see the later 1275's had a steady bar on them that is 1/2 inch longer. Now I also have that bar. Is this really necessary to use or not , Is this because of the slightly longer dogbone steady on the upper on auto and later minis ?
I try to install everything I can while the engine is out of the car, that said I do leave the intake and exhaust manifolds off, along with the radiator .....you can set the clutch linkage up while it's out of the car too, it's much easier then and then install the slave cylinder and hose. 20 thou clearance at the stop stud and 1/8" clearance (I use a drill bit) at the large stop nut, then tighten the lock nut against it.
I would just use the shift rod that seems to fit the best - doesn't matter which one that is - that allows the engine to sit upright, not leaned over one way or another and doesn't bind the linkage.
So long as the speedo cable is on prior to the manifolds you're good to go. Otherwise everything goes on after the engine is in.
So I was going to put this engine in today. I just realized I do not have the inner driveshaft gaiters....Dammit. Is there a "go to the auto parts store gaiter" that I can get for this ? or I may have to order this gaiter part.... 21A963 and put this off for a week because I cannot wrap my mind around putting the driveshaft / HS yoke on after the fact.
I have some that look more like the other ones in your pic, they're for the outer CV, but will they work anyway? All they have to do is keep the dirt out....
Edit: Never mind, I can see the larger diameter is quite a bit smaller on the ones you need......
I'd take an old one to a power sports place that sells quads and such, you might find something there that will work.
They are a smaller gaiter. I may take this to the auto parts store but it could be a fishing expedition for a gaiter in there depending on who I can find to help me. Quad parts , thats a good idea, I will look . I will probably call 7ent today and wait it out. Just when I had all this lined up today too....gee whiz. HA....and I just ordered some " I forgots" from Minispares and modifying an order there lately has been an ordeal so I will skip that.
Where did you get your drive shafts? An OEM drive shaft would have a groove for a clamp to hold the gaiter in place. Maybe while you're waiting for the gaiter get a groove machined in. I measured a drive shaft I have and the groove is 3" from the end.
They are Swiftune driveshafts... I do have the originals in good condition too, but I cannot seem to dislodge them from the CV joints. The Swiftunes are thicker and you are right....no grooves.
If you want to bring them down, I'll bet we can get them out with my 20 ton press......I can't imagine the groove is critical, otherwise Swiftune would have machined one in there already.
Dave, we can press them sometime. I am in no hurry to do that, but I am sure that would work. I am also sure I have not mastered the "technique" to just tapping them apart.
As to the engine install you don't have to worry much about before or after as Dave said he put most stuff on first, Dan seems to do it after I set mine in with nothing and the only thing that sucked was the speedometer cable because I forgot about it until last. The radiator was a slight pain but not sure if the extra room of leaving it off was worth it I didn't want to get any scratches in the engine bay.
Well, I ordered the inner gaiters for the driveshafts , so Tuesday or Wednesday, I will try to drop this in. I may put some of the clutch parts on but otherwise will leave the alt/starter / radiator off until after. I have an aluminum radiator and a DSN waterpump pulley with built in spacer (4mm i believe) , so I am not entirely sure if things will line up smooth or I will be forced to make adjustments right there with an extra shim or ??, hopefully the pulley is right , so I don't need to buy another without spacer....that is a concern right now I was mulling over.
I do have this engine lift bracket to make things smoother I hope....when I pulled the original engine I had chains and D cliped them to some convenient holes on the auto block.....I don't have those holes anymore with this engine....thats too bad.
If you have a new radiator and pulley, I would test assemble them with the engine out of the car to make sure all is right with the spacing.
My last install I did with the radiator attached and just went really slow with cardboard taped to the radiator to protect it and the bay.
Terry
Good point Terry has, Also almost more important than the engine stuff is the brake lines and switch on the sub frame they suck to do with the engine in.
Dan , has put the lines on for me Jeff.....I took your advice Terry and began a test assembly. Here is what I am looking at. The fan seems to be hugging the right or rear to lower side of the shroud, with a lot more gap on the opposite side left/ front and upper portion. Would it be advisable to take the bracket on the bottom of the shroud and elongate the holes slightly to be able to make some adjustment to the shroud position? Or am I missing something about the assembly here. The shroud and that bracket are whatever new option minispares offers as my shroud was a rusty mess. The engine mount bracket is original mini and of course the gearbox it is attached to. The thermostat on these heads have the same 3 stud position. to attach the upper bracket.....I have the correct upper bracket that seems to not want to seat down as much on the front stud, so the whole shroud is a bit cocked :(
The radiator seems a safe distance from the fan when attached , with or without the addition of a small spacer .
Is your top bracket causing the shroud to deform? If so, shim it with some washers on the studs or bend/elongate holes or whatever needs to be done.
The shroud sets lop sided just being connected to the bottom bracket. The top bracket is not connected here. The shroud is not deformed . It just seems as if the fitment issue could be in the bottom bracket or possibly a slight deviation in the position of the welded bracket attachement point/tunnel at the bottom of the shroud. I have had some fitment issues with some of the new parts. Nothing is made like it used to be.
I could possibly try to bend both arms of the lower bracket a tad bit to the right , or elongate the holes a bit there....And then washer / shim up the top bracket as it is not far off from sitting flush.
Modifying those holes won't hurt - if that's what it takes to get the thing to fit right, go for it.....
Did you attach the radiator to the shroud and the top bracket and see if it comes into 'square'? Mine usually requires a slight 'nudge' rearward to get the top bracket screws to line up with the shroud.
yeah, I did.... the shroud doesn't seem to budge enough to straigten it out with everything attached.
I assume you've also got the lower shroud bushes (CAM4618 (http://minispares.com/product/Classic/Cooling_heating/CAM4618.aspx?07&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/CAM4618.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)) and lower spacer tube (ARP1073 (http://minispares.com/product/Classic/Cooling_heating/Water/ARP1073.aspx?0703&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/CAM4618.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)) in place?
Good point John, this 73 that I'm working on didn't have them so I installed them when I changed out the radiator for the aluminum one......
You guys beat me to it, there's a bushing in there.
Not sure when the change over was but some do and some don't have the bushes and spacer.
Yes, I have the tube and the bushes in place.
Got everything lined up....had to elongate the lower bracket holes a tad bit and use one washer shim on the rear attachment point of the top bracket and give that point a little bend with channel locks. Radiator spacing is good with just the 4mm spacer pulley. I think I am going to leave the brackets / shroud on for install, maybe even the radiator if after I get it low in there I feel like I have room to safely maneuver.
Driveshafts are in and the rubber gaiters finally made it to the mailbox today. I think I am just going to use plastic zip ties on the CV gaiters and maybe also on the HS inner gaiters....or just some wire as they were originally ??.....anything wrong with just using zip ties ? Those steel clamps look good , but its just rubber and shouldn't take much to hold it on.
Also, I put the CV packet grease in the CV joint and HS yokes. Should I put some grease in the gaiters themselves?
I had success with the radiator attached last time and even had to do it twice as I got some of the bad motor mounts where the holes were placed incorrectly.
Just taped the cardboard to the radiator to protect and dropped it in very slowly. And this was on an early body with the fender shroud as well.
Terry
Glad to hear that you've got it sorted -
Gee Terry, to me, those photos look like they should have the tube and bushes.
Zip ties are fine, the only place I had trouble with them was on the outermost CV, where the little tab stuck up and hit the housing .....but they make Zip ties that lie flat - with those you can do it easily.
However, if you need the tool that cinches up the metal ones, I have it....I just used it to do up the ones on my Audi's CV joints.
One has the right diameter for the bushes and the other doesn't. Also the bush version has a nice shoulder for the bush to sit on and the other is an edge which would cut through the bush as I thouhgt about drilling it our to make the bushes fit.
I do not know if this was a Rover change at some point.
I was experimenting with one piece cowls, so I had two that ended up being different. I went with the two piece cowls.
So, the engine is in there now. Lowered it in, then realized I needed to take the left HS yoke off so I could get the driveshafts in. Pulling an engine out on disassembly, the shafts just slipped right out....putting one in however....no such luck of slipping them both right back in. Not sure what I was doing different....if anything.
Lifted the engine back out to remove that. Back in. Now I had installed the two subbie brackets from minispares that were to give me the correct resting points for the engine mounts. This required elongating one existing hole on passenger side and boring two new holes to hold the brackets in. Easy enough. Engine back down in there and resting on the mounts and as you can see in one of these pictures , the mount holes are completely above the bracket holes on one side and cannot even fit into the other side at all.
Lifted the engine up an inch or so. took the brackets out , thinned them down quite a bit. I was quite pissy about this all by then realizing after putting one side back in that I would spend half a day grinding these to a thin wafer. Everywhere I read said 9-10mm brackets on either side. 18-20 mm total spacing difference on the auto subbie... Thats what they sell for about $25. That's what I bought. But what I actually needed was about 3mm on either side.... 76 cents worth of thick grade 8 washers....one on each bolt. I found 2 rubber plugs in the parts that fit the extra 2 bracket holes that are now useless ...smeared a bit of ultra black round the edge. Looks fine. Not sure what was different about my auto subbie or gear box that was out of the norm ...now on to other "put it together , take it back apart , redo its " on the car.
Wow! It' looking great! I really love the color combo in the engine bay. 77.gif
I wanted it look like the blue paint on some of the old pontiacs when they used a metallic blue. I had some sort of pontiac over at least 20 years time.
Hey Dan...I didn't put any nicks in the paint ! 4.gif
Thats what the paint reminded me of and it seems some old gm diesel of some kind was that color too.
When you said grind to a thin wafer all I could think of was this scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJZPzQESq_0
HA! Its only wafer thin
I wish I had some thin brackets in there to rest against the entire mounts but I cannot make these brackets that thin. I thought about getting a piece of thin steel plate and making a new brackets. If these washers won't cause a problem , then they will stay. Otherwise I may make new thin brackets.
Quote from: stan360 on December 22, 2016, 10:49:07 PM
...now on to other "put it together , take it back apart , redo its " on the car.
When putting on the exhaust header. Would it be a good idea to wrap that?
I like how much space you have between the radiator and inner wing at the front. Mine rubs and a piece of rubber was required for me there.
I wound up cutting a little notch in my fender for radiator tank clearance. This 73 I worked on had an inch or more of room!
I like the idea of wrapping the header, tho some people disagree saying that it causes the header to rot out prematurely - but I like keeping the heat downstream and away from the firewall. Plus too and also, less chance of burning yourself if you have to reach back there to adjust a carb or something!
You're really making great progress - I think you will be ready in time to go to Texas with us!
Anyone know what you call that plate that covers the hole in the firewall behind the carb? I need one.
Firewall hole carb blocker thing plate. I've seen a few but pretty certain they weren't reproduced.
I think they were called "firewall blanking plates". As Dan says, they don't seem to be reproduced and used ones don't show up very often.
Is it this thing you are refering too Dave ? I think this is a good idea for keeping unwanteds out of the instrument pod. I seen it referenced as a bulkhead sealing or blanking plate on some internet search...?? When I got to tearing into my car, the pod had a mouse nest in it made from a festive fabric with pictures of candy corn on it in it. Or if you are using the side mounted instrument cluster, this hole needs a better cover. M-Machine has one ...product code 11.92.00.00 Speedo Blanking Plate.
I have a piece of this material that I have contemplated using.... seems like it would be a pain in the ass to install all the bits and bobs through and over top of it though... Maybe most of them should be behind the material like the photo...don't know, hard to access anything then ...It is made to fit the bulkhead same as what was used to sound proof the bonnet , It covers that hole allowing access through a slit opening :o
The Texas trek sounds like a lot of fun. I need to hustle to make that one.
Yeah Dan, I have right at an inch of space on that top front corner. I just checked top clearance before I replace the rocker cover with something different. Plenty there.
(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1227.0;attach=6067;image)
I'd love to get one like this, but even a flat one would do as there's nothing in there now.....I didn't find that part number in M-Machine's catalog......where is it?
Here is a link....
http://preview.m-machine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/MINI-catalogue-February-2016-for-web.pdf
under the competition accesories block in APX 1...near the bottom of all the scrolling . Says it is Feb 2016 edition , so I imagine its current. I have no idea what their offering looks like and could not find a picture , but found that info on a TMF forum thread here....
http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/130142-front-bulkhead/
And here is a lengthy build thread where I found the cover you referred to.....I have not read through it by any stretch, but there are several pics of the cover plate front and rear , possibly something he made.
http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=386782&page=10
Quote from: 94touring on December 23, 2016, 06:42:59 AM
Firewall hole carb blocker thing plate. I've seen a few but pretty certain they weren't reproduced.
I bought mine from M-Machine (P/N 11.92.00.00 Speedo Blanking Panel) back in 2006. Of course, my mini has the wiring harness coming into the engine compartment through here, as well as the speedo cable, so I cut a big notch in it, thus defeating it's purpose.
I found a thread on TMF last week, as the state of my blanking plate bothers me. According to the posts, the welded nuts on the bulkhead aren't really 10-32 (10 UNF), they're 2BA threads but apparently are easily tapped to 3/16UNF or '10-32 or '10 UNF''.
TMF Thread: Speedo Blanking Plate (http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/130142-front-bulkhead/)
Having checked the M-Machine website, they don't appear in the .pdf catalogue, but a phone call to M-Machine could work. I think that's actually how I got mine, as mine is sheet steel, not alloy as some mention.
EDIT: Wow, I would have never found it again - thanks Stan - 'Competition Accessories' - who would have known that section existed!
What does your M-Machine speedo plate look like John ?
Yeah, if it's just a square sheet of metal, I can make one of those.....if it's formed like the one I posted back, that would be cool.
It's a simple, contour-shaped flat steel plate that I mounted from the inside in order to give just a little bit of extra room for the carb(s) - I can't remember if I was using twins at the time. I had to butcher it to clear the wiring harness and speedo cable that poked from the 850's original single-gauge (speedo) aparature, and cut additional slots for the mechanical oil and temp gauges. If I were to do it over again, I'd mount it using longer screws from the inside and perhaps a bit more judicious in my carving.
I still wonder how folks gain access to the speedo cable nut without needing to remove the carb and slide the blanking plate down the cable.
If it's any help, I did a diy plate on my car. I was at Lowe's in the plumbing aisle, when I spotted a blanking plate that I added two tabs to. The tabs screw into two existing captive nuts that I had on my engine bay side (possibly for the speedo cowl that I no longer use). I used a hole saw to cut a section that accepts the wiring harness and my speedo cable.
You can see it vaguely in Dan's most recent picture on my thread. It's not the most refined solution but it should do the job.
I helped rhino fabrication develop replacement single gauge pod. we could come up with a nice molded plastic block off if there is enough demand. I want one for my car that still works while using the center speedometer.
I would want one also , especially if its plastic of some sort, to make for easy modifications/ holes.
Is anyone using one of these gear lever bias barrels on there rod change linkage . They are made for the 5 speed gearbox but supposedly can be used on regular 4 speed box. I just didn't know how much good it did keeping the shifter in the 3/4 gate area a bit more like a modern car, or is it a bit unecessary to install this.
My friend John Styers (Lawrence British car club member) runs one of those with his KAD short shifter, I never saw the point myself but since it's a KAD thing there must be - besides making a shedload of money. I'm thinking it's something to do with the smaller gate on the short shifter..... ;D
Call him or send him a text - tell him I put you in touch.. 913-906-4401
Thanks Dave, I will call John. I have been wanting to join the club , and since I have some time off, I can ask him if they are meeting next week and could actually be able to make it to a meeting.
I forgot to ask about this way back there, but before I get any farther to where I can no longer get my hand or tools around it....how tight does that speedo cable need to be. I put it on hand tight, then took a shop towel, wrapped it and took a channel lock to it and give it a snug. Not too much, but apparently it takes almost nothing to mar the sensitive aluminum finish on that thing. Should be good there ?
I do hand tight.
Bare in mind someday it will break and you'll have to remove it. Too tight now will be a potential nightmare on an already difficult job replacing that thing.
Glad I addressed this today. I was able to rock and hold the engine forward since all that is holding are the 2 subbie mounts. I took the cable off ( with small channel locks) mangled it in the process, as it was a hell of a lot tighter than snug one handed.... I did plan for disaster and had 2 of the cables.....this new one is now hand tight. I can see that once this engine is attached from all angles and all the parts are on, this cable would be near impossible to reach.
I am looking at the clearance on the bulkhead to intake manifold area. It appears that it may be best to put the carb on the intake and then onto the block. I have the short studs that mini spares offers for the HIF44
https://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Fuel/Carburetors/Fittings/CHS2514.aspx?130207&ReturnUrl=/product/Classic/Exhaust_and_manifold/Inlet/Inlet/C-AHT770.aspx|Back%20to
those studs seems to need the 1/2" spacer between the carb manifold and I wonder with all that if the damn carb isn't going to be poking its head in that gauge pod hole.
That cable can be replaced from underneath the car with long needle nose with the curved end. Minidave made a speciality tool to remove his. It can be done but a slow process.
I've always used a spacer between the carb and intake manifold, partly to reduce the temp of the intake charge and to increase the intake tract length. Even with the shorter small-bore blocks, it's always been possible for me to install the carb after the manifold is secured, but it is a tight fit for the HIF38 being really, really close to the bulkhead, which is why my HIF44 is still sitting in a box.
I've read that the automatic subframes cause manual gearboxes to sit lower than manual subframes.
Auto Subframe (https://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Body/Subframes/Front/KGB10024.aspx?030802&ReturnUrl=/shop/classic/Body/Subframes/Front.aspx%7CBack%20to%20shop)
I went from a 1/2" spacer to a 1/4" spacer on Buzz cause the carb would vibrate against the bulkhead under certain conditions. However, just FYI, the '73 I was working on had no spacer at all and it didn't seem to affect the performance one whit.
And you can borrow my speedo cable tool any time you need it, it works easily....from above too.
OK , John if this engine is 1/2 inch lower now , I can see where the bottom of that carb is going to likely hit the bulkhead with the 1/2 spacer. I have the 1/4 spacer also or I can try no spacer..... But I don't know what to do about the studs Dave. The ones I have for the 1/2 spacer are the only ones I can find on minispares to fit the manifold and the HIF44.
What did you do about the studs to go with no spacer or 1/4 spacer.
I can see where if I got the car of the ground a bit Dan , I could use some bent nose pliers on that cable and have some elbow room. All is good now, hopefully a long life for this cable...hand tight only, but there may be a day when I have to borrow Daves speedo cable tools.
My original MiniSpares intake (with the square-top heater tube) allowed me to use a ½" spacer with the HIF38, but when I changed to a round-top MiniSpares intake I was forced to change to a 1/4" spacer. I can't 'splain the difference between the two manifolds, as they have the same part number. I also can't remember why I changed away from the square-top. The factory used a ½" spacer with the original HS4, so I bought the appropriate 4-stud spacer to suit when I converted.
Regarding performance - I honestly don't know if half the things I've done amount to a whole lot of real difference, as I've no real way of measuring anything. Based on 'theory', though, the stickers add around 2½ more horsepower and 2.75 lbs/ft more torque; needed to haul around the weight of the seats, roll cage and copious amounts of copper wire, not to mention Hyacinth's (and mine, I suppose) aging physique.
As for studs, in order from long to short:
22A152 (http://minispares.com/product/classic/22A152.aspx) 2.25" long universal stud 5/16"UNC one end and unf for the nut end. This fits the gearbox to flywheel case (6 of) and inlet manifolds to take HIF carbs when large spacer fitted.
CHS2515 (http://minispares.com/product/classic/CHS2515.aspx) 5/16"unc and unf at nut end, this stud is 1.9375"long. This stud originally replaced CHS2514 but is 2-3 threads(5mm) longer on the end the nut fits which means it might have to be shortened for use on manifolds for fitting carbs so CHS2514 is advised.
CHS2514 (http://minispares.com/product/Classic/Fuel/Carburetors/Fittings/CHS2514.aspx?130207&ReturnUrl=/shop/classic/Fuel/Carburetors/Fittings.aspx%7CBack%20to%20shop) Universal stud made for fitting the HS4/HIF carb to the manifold (except HS6 with alloy spacer on cast one piece manifold which requires CHS2515 (5.8mm longer)and it also fits the cylinder head to take the thermostat housing.
CHS2614 (http://minispares.com/product/Classic/Fuel/Carburetors/Fittings/CHS2614.aspx?130207&ReturnUrl=/shop/classic/Fuel/Carburetors/Fittings.aspx%7CBack%20to%20shop) Originally quoted as the HS2 twin carb manifold stud it is one thread longer than CHS2613 which was for single HS2 and spin on oil filter head to the block. UNC course thread for manifold or block and UNF for the nuts.
CHS2613 (http://minispares.com/product/Classic/Fuel/Carburetors/Fittings/CHS2613.aspx?130207&ReturnUrl=/shop/classic/Fuel/Carburetors/Fittings.aspx%7CBack%20to%20shop) CHS2613: 1.6250" long stud
(I'm currently using 22A152, but had previously used CHS2514 (in 2000 when I first changed to the HIF38 w/½" spacer))
I think some of the shorty studs for HS2 are 3/8" unc and the manifolds for HS4/HIF carbs is 5/16" and those studs are the spacer types.
I've had good luck getting manifold studs from ace hardware. Depending on custom lengths in your case, you could always make your own by cutting down a bolt.
Go to the hardware store and buy a stick of 5/16 UNC (coarse thread) allthread rod, then cut to whatever length you need......there is nothing that says you have to use fine thread nuts on the other end, and I have no idea why they use the two different threads on either end of the stud, other than you need the coarse threads into the aluminum manifold.
When you attach the speedo cable you only need to turn it around twice just to hold it to the transmission. Never tighten it.
Regards
towjoe 77.gif
Ah, the hardware store. I have spent quite a bit of time in there lately getting nuts and bolts for the car . It never occured to me to get some allthread rod. That will work. Also, I didn't think about not needing the fine thread side. I did however also find some auto studs in there that were 5/16 coarse and 5/16 fine that have 1/4 space , so if I can use that smaller 1/4 spacer, that could be fine. Covered now both ways.
You got it Joe, a couple full turns on that speedo cable to get it seated on there and then I am leaving it alone.