Restoration-Mini

Technical Forums => Maintenance and Modifications => Topic started by: MPlayle on December 03, 2015, 05:29:14 PM

Title: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 03, 2015, 05:29:14 PM
Time to start the new thread on this one.

Got the start of some "tlc" parts in today: new rocker cover and fixings, new full boot trim kit, and new front seat diaphragms.  Also picked up locally some new 11" wiper blades.  (Pictures later.)

I got the license plates to put on earlier in the week.  I need to make brackets for the front plate.  It will give me something to do this weekend besides contract coding.

I'll be driving it some next week.   71.gif
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on December 03, 2015, 05:42:23 PM
Did you see the original thread I bumped up?  That's back when it was freshly imported.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 03, 2015, 07:58:58 PM
Yes, I saw the revival of the original thread.  Proves that with effort in the right hands, it became its own little phoenix!

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: Jims5543 on December 05, 2015, 12:02:47 AM
What kind of communist state do you live in that requires you to have a front plate?

Please tell me Tejas does not do that? I thought that was a New England /California thing....


God Bless Texas??? No God Bless FloRida... we have no front tags....

;D


Enjoy Flur (keep the name it is awesome) I look forward to seeing what you do with her/him/it.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MiniDave on December 05, 2015, 07:27:29 AM
Lots of states have front plates, Kansas doesn't but Missouri does. OTOH, my friend Don who lives in MO doesn't run a front plate on any of his cars and has never had an issue.....enforcement varies, I guess.

I'm still running my English plates on Buzz - it is registered and plated in Kansas, but I just keep the plate in the door pocket - but I've never had an issue anywhere I've driven him.

My friend John has fake English plates on his classic - it's not registered anywhere - and he says he's never had an issue either. I guess as long as you don't drive stupid or rob a bank, it's not a problem!  :-)
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 05, 2015, 08:17:13 AM
Yes, Texas still has a front plate requirement.  At least for regular plates and "classic" plates.  I think "antique" plates (and possibly YOM) may be only rear plates.

First things planned are:
- boot trim kit
- replace dented valve/rocker cover
- replace aged wipers
- replace broken/breaking seat diaphragms
- solve a hesitation accelerating from idle

Then I plan on deciding whether to remove the SPI, converting back to carb.  The Rover ECUs cannot be serviced/replaced if they start having issues.  I may also do further cleanup on the wiring at that time - replace the SPI harness with a plain one.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MiniDave on December 05, 2015, 10:07:51 AM
If you can cure that hesitation, I think I'd stay with the SPI as long as you can......it's nice not having to run a choke and deal with carb issues, plugs last longer, better mileage and more power too.....
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 05, 2015, 12:06:01 PM
MiniDave,

That is the plan initially.  I am doing the research for conversion as a backup option.

I know I will also need to address an issue with the fuel gauge/sender as well.  That may entail a replacement fuel pump as I think the SPI sender is integrated with the fuel pump - not certain.

If I convert, I will also have to figure out an adapter for the temperature sensor as the one for the SPI is in the manifold where the coolant flow is routed through the manifold.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MiniDave on December 05, 2015, 12:36:33 PM
Funny you mention the temp sensor, the Mad Mini boys just did this very thing on their Mini that they're supercharging....they took the thermostat housing and drilled and tapped it for the sensor. However, if you didn't want to do that you can buy new housings already tapped online from several vendors, just get the right sized hole to match your sender.

I have a late model fuel injected car fuel tank, the sender is separate from the pump on it - it's on the side of the tank behind the plastic shield panel.

Here's a pic looking down into the tank from the hole where the pump mounts, you can see the float....

I think there are plenty of ECUs around, if nothing else from guys converting to carbs. I know a guy who has one here in KC, problem is they're all used and you don't know till you plug it in whether it's any good or not.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 05, 2015, 03:38:08 PM
MiniDave,

I discovered the very thing you show about the sender this afternoon while test fitting the boot trim kit.

As you say, when you can find a replacement ECU, it is still just as old and may be questionable as it is.  Also, Rover did several variations of the ECU on the SPI - some with immobilizer circuitry and some without, slight wiring differences, etc.

Going the drilled thermostat housing route was one of my thoughts, but it means knowing what the thread of the SPI temp sensor is.  Otherwise, you have to try to match a sensor to the gauge.

Since the inline heater valve has been removed, I thought if I could find out the thread size of the temp sensor I could do up an inline 'T' fitting to hold the sensor.  The heater is fed from a sandwich plate under the thermostat housing.  With it being always on, readings would be accurate enough as it would be close to the head and in regular flow similar to how it currently is in the manifold.

I need to get out my manual and start looking into the possible sources of the hesitation.

Today was mount the plates (done), install the new wiper blades (failed - have narrow bayonet arms, blades are for wide bayonet), adjust hand brake (done), test fit boot trim kit (done).

I'll have to order some different wiper blades.  I need to also pull the battery and clean the terminals.  I need to clean up one of the spares for putting back into the boot as well.

A bit of miscellaneous wiring to trace and identify as well - some in the boot (likely from the "disabled" immobilizer) and some in the engine bay.  While I am at the wiring tracing, I also want to wire in a power port for phone charger and GPS.

Not too much on the list and a small start made today.  Need to start driving it now it has the plates on it.


Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: Davisio on December 05, 2015, 04:33:47 PM
Good to see you getting to work.....

The fuel guage never really worked correctly. Upgraded tank? 9 gal I think.

Throttle hesitation always pissed me off. Re-routed throttle cable and that helped. Used to stick really bad. Think it might be old fuel?

And..... should be able to charge phone via usb on front of stereo. ;)

I'll write more when I'm not getting yelled at to come to dinner. Salmon tonight!
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on December 05, 2015, 04:55:34 PM
That throttle cable was very irritating.  I've done a number others and none that temperamental. 
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 05, 2015, 07:18:50 PM
It is the original size tank for the SPI Minis.  It may be either the sender float or resistance coil is bad.  I topped up with premium, so perhaps with getting it out and driving I will get any "old fuel" issue out of the way.

I will see what I can tell about the accelerator cable routing as well.

Once the rpm's are up a bit, it seems to respond fine.  It just stumbles coming off idle.  It does it whether trying to move or not - can be in neutral and still gets the stumble.

Edit: Another reason for considering the carb conversion: it opens up more possibilities for performance upgrades.  The ECU has limited adaptation for upgrades in its programming.  Switching to a different FI system has its own challenges that are likely the same or slightly more in cost than the carb conversion.


Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: jedduh01 on December 06, 2015, 05:30:30 PM
Every Spi / MPI i have worked on has had wonky Fuel Gauges...
I didnt seen your exact issue quoted. but Reading Badly?  Showing Empty with 3-5 more gallons in the tank.

I Had that issue -  and bent the sender rod-- I want to say i bet the Kink in it MOre Flat.. but think about your bends or try a few times when modding.
I got my car where i could trust-  E = Was EMPTY! better be putting gas in it- But it stayed FULL for a long time till the fuel level dropped down more and more.. Once it got below Half- OH yea= Runnin Low!

Hesitation - GOod Fuel = good start!
  I dont remeber the flow of this car - but make sure the Vaccum lines are good n dandy from the back of the manifold to the ECU . Thru a Flame trap too. 

It doesnt have a true distrubuto - but clean the contacts inside the Cap and the Rotor..

Throw new plugs in?

Techon Fuel Cleaner?

Clean the throttle body well - Open it up  clean aroudn the butterfly etc.

Throttle position sensor and or the idle speed conroler could be suspect- but from what i know require specat tools for tuning... Cleaning things is your best start.

I loved My SPI = sold it Locally and keep in touch with the new owner.  OUt of all the minis i work on - with the seasonal changes- temp and such- its the one you NEVER have to touch!  Other need a bit of carb tuning or adjustments for the seasons. If you go carb- sure you can ask for more PEP = but are you ready to spend bucko's for Heads and cams and such to make it peppyer?

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 06, 2015, 07:49:51 PM
I did not get to play with it much this weekend.

Fuel gauge: seemed to be dropping rapidly and "bouncing" when reading 1/4 tank.  Stopped and filled the tank to the brim - only took a bit over 2 gallons!  Gauge then seemed slow to rise and stopped a bit below full - estimate about 7/8.  So, yeah it is reading badly.  If the tank mouth did not have the "unleaded" flapper inside, I would use a coat hanger and flashlight to experiment with the sender a bit.  I may just run the tank down (keep a spare 1-gallon in the boot in case it runs out away from home) and remove the sender to experiment or replace it.

I will also run some fuel system cleaner through it.  Filled up with Exxon as it was nearest when I noticed the gauge acting wonky.

I've had a SPI Mini in the past and really liked it.  The main reason right now for researching the conversion is if the ECU packs it in.  Otherwise, I would prefer to solve its issues and enjoy it.

I'll get some cleaners (in tank and external) and give things a going over.  I think the plugs are fairly new as Dan and/or Davisio put new ones in a little over a year ago?  It came to me with an apparent spare air filter, so I'll check what is in there and replace if needed as I give the throttle body a good cleaning.  I'll need to chase through the vacuum lines as well.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: Davisio on December 07, 2015, 03:47:20 AM
Ya. Plugs are reasonably new.
Also has a fresh coolant flush.
As for the air filter, I put a K&N in. The other one is the original. Just kept it as a backup.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 07, 2015, 06:00:04 AM
Davisio,

Thank you for that update.  Glad to know it has a K&N and fresh plugs.

I'm going to be doing another coolant flush as it is already rusty looking.  It must still be flushing out some of the "mud" Dan found packing the heater core.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 07, 2015, 08:24:37 PM
Got the coolant system pressure flushed this evening.  Some pretty dark nasty stuff got flushed out.  They cycled it about 7 times to get all the dark crud out!   :-\

Before they started, you could not see the tubes inside the radiator.  When they finished, the tubes were easy to see.

Their whole staff had to look over the car while they worked on it.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: jedduh01 on December 07, 2015, 09:04:16 PM
What did they flush it with? HOw exactly if you can describe

Ive got acar here- makes mud water after a few hundred miles-  engines out - Ive run / pumped water thjrut it and it comes out clear-but any additional tricks to take?
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 07, 2015, 09:33:57 PM
They use a pressurized tank system.  It forces out the old coolant and then pumps in new under pressure.

As much crud as Dan had to flush out initially (heater was packed full), it will likely take a couple more flushes down the line to finish getting it all out.  I checked it just a little bit ago and after the drive home and cooling down, it is already dirty again.  Just not as dark as before.

I also think I may have found part of the hesitation issues - all related to the accelerator pedal, cable and linkage.  The cable is still a bit too long.  The pedal has been welded at some point and is the at the wrong angle.  Part of the linkage is out of adjustment and actuating late when coming off idle.

I just have to find the article I saw recently about the linkage adjustment.  Then I will figure out the other two pieces.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MiniDave on December 07, 2015, 09:44:18 PM
What is it with these cars making mud in the cooling system?

When I overhauled Buzz I cleaned the entire cooling system and still got mud - found it was in the heater core, even tho I flushed the heck out of it too. So, new block hot tanked, new rad, new heater core and system is finally clean and staying clean.

I flushed and flushed the thing and still got mud out of it before I overhauled it.....where the heck does it come from?
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 07, 2015, 10:24:11 PM
I have no idea where the crud comes from.

I did find the thread on Mini Mania I was looking for about the SPI linkage adjustment.  From that thread and checking the manual, I do know that another part of the throttle response issue is likely to be the missing throttle pedal switch.  Not sure what all it effects in the system, but it seems involved in the throttle stepper motor function.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 08, 2015, 07:48:23 AM
I did a little digging into the purpose of the aforementioned throttle pedal switch.  Its need is determined by which ECU is present.  One version of the ECU needs it in order to know the difference between indexing the stepper motor and normal running/accelerating.  The other version of the ECU does not need it.  Now to figure out which ECU I have.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on December 08, 2015, 08:39:04 AM
I don't recall any sensors or switches on the pedal. 
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 08, 2015, 10:08:47 AM
It may well be the version of the ECU that does not require the "throttle pedal switch".  I plan on trying to check that this evening.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: tmsmini on December 08, 2015, 04:58:33 PM
What year is the engine? On the Mini Forum UK, there was a post from one of the FI knowledgeable people about what years the switch was used on. Might be worth a post in their injection section.
Terry
I found this:

In this case you need to check the throttle switch if it's a earlier Spi or the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) on a later model.
so early version used the switch while later versions used the TPS
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 08, 2015, 11:08:17 PM
tmsmini,

I do not know what year the engine actually is.  I had found some of the stuff on the Mini Forum UK as well, but have not been able to definitively determine whether the ECU in there requires the throttle pedal switch or not.

The ECU details:
VM REf #: AJ
OEM #: MNE 101150
Type: MEMS SPI 1.6

Information I have found indicates this ECU was used on 1993 to 1996 Minis and has the matched immobilizer coded into it.  I have not been able to determine if this ECU needs the needs the switch.

I don't have a login on the UK forum to post there.  Iwould be grateful if someone here with a login there would post the question: Does the aforementioned ECU model require the throttle pedal switch or not?

I know I need to work on the pedal angle for taking out the slack in the accelerator cable and adjusting the linkage.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 09, 2015, 07:36:43 AM
I went ahead and signed up on theMiniForum.co.uk and posted the question over there.  I will update over here if/when I get an answer.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: tmsmini on December 09, 2015, 09:04:42 AM
Sorry I did not see your reply here. I thought I signed up for replies.
xrocketengineer has replied on the mini forum. He has provided excellent info in the past. I believe he is located in Florida and it would be great to get him to participate on this forum as well.
Terry
and it seems no switch is needed...
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 09, 2015, 10:47:31 AM
I had not yet seen the reply over on the UK forum - and I thought I had requested notice of replies over there!

It is good to know I don't need to figure out how to add the switch.  That saves trying to locate the original wiring and rigging up a bracket, etc.

Now to set about the pedal adjustments for getting the slack out of the cable in order to be able to adjust the linkage and index the stepper motor properly.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on December 09, 2015, 11:05:12 AM
Perhaps you can get lucky and find a lhd pedal.  It's no easy task adjusting what's there unless you cut n weld. 
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: tmsmini on December 09, 2015, 12:19:45 PM
I was able to find a late model clutch pedal when I needed it from South Lake Minis in the UK. It appears his site is being reworked at the moment.
There is also a French site as well which has had some Rover Mini parts:
http://www.datch.fr/en/nam3107-accelerator-pedal-lhd-p-3504.html?cPath=45_4516_451616 (http://www.datch.fr/en/nam3107-accelerator-pedal-lhd-p-3504.html?cPath=45_4516_451616)

Seems expensive and may not fit the SPi. I am not sure what changes there were to the pedal over the years.
Terry
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 09, 2015, 12:29:37 PM
What I am actually contemplating is putting a stop-pad behind the upper section of the pedal arm.  I am going to try to get it such that WOT has the pedal to the floor.  The stop-pad would be set such that the excess slack is taken up with the throttle back at idle while keeping the pedal from being too high.  That will allow the cable sleeve adjustment at the throttle-body to do its job of adjusting the linkage.

Edit:  Something like this installed behind the arm:

(http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/038902/038902074911lg.jpg)
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: tmsmini on December 09, 2015, 12:59:00 PM
I think your idea should work.
But I had no idea there are this many pedals(from Somerford). I guess I never thought about it.

SAB101230PMA   PEDAL-ACCELERATOR-BLACK FINISH-LHD-STD MODELS-'97 ON £25.13 Ex VAT   
SAB101240PMA   PEDAL-ACCELERATOR-BLACK FINISH-RHD-STD MODELS-'97 ON £38.09 Ex VAT   
SAB101210MUN   PEDAL-ACCELERATOR-BRIGHT FINISH-LHD-COOPER-'97 ON £24.74 Ex VAT   
SAB101220MUN   PEDAL-ACCELERATOR-BRIGHT FINISH-RHD-COOPER-'97 ON £27.96 Ex VAT   
SAB10022   PEDAL-ACCELERATOR-INJECTION MODELS-LHD-'91-'95 £23.27 Ex VAT   
SAB10039   PEDAL-ACCELERATOR-INJECTION MODELS-RHD-'91-'95 £29.00 Ex VAT   
NAM3107   PEDAL-ACCELERATOR-LHD CARB. MODELS-'76-'96 & INJ.'95-'96 £45.47 Ex VAT   
NAM3108   PEDAL-ACCELERATOR-RHD CARB. MODELS-'76-'92 & INJ.'95-'96 £28.15 Ex VAT   
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 09, 2015, 01:35:44 PM
I had forgotten about Somerford Mini for parts.

It looks like SAB10022 is the one I would need and the price isn't bad either.

I may order one and still do the "stop-pad" as the cable is just a bit too long regardless.  I can install the "stop-pad" with the current pedal in the meantime.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 10, 2015, 05:51:39 AM
New LHD accelerator pedal ordered, along with a new cable just in case.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 21, 2015, 10:22:35 AM
Finally heard from Somerford: apparently they have been closed the last 10 days for moving  locations.  They will be following up on where my order is.

Meanwhile, I went ahead and devised a pedal stop - an 'L' bracket attached to the pedal box where the brake light switch mounts.  I modified the other end so the cable does not rub.  This took out all the extra slack from the cable and left just enough to be able to adjust the linkage.  It has helped clear the hesitation some.  I also sprayed the throttle-body and linkage down with brake/carb cleaner to clean any crud off.  (It now puts out some "smoke" while warming up, but I think that is still "burn-off" of the cleaner along with having added some B-12 Chemtool to the fuel tank.)

Started to drive it to work today, but got LOTs of belt squeal and some rattle like bad alternator or water pump bearing.  More to look into.

I did also get the driver's seat diaphragm replaced, the battery terminals cleaned and the boot trim kit installed.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on December 21, 2015, 10:39:24 AM
Water pump is new.  The belt did loosen and squeal on me on delivery.  I made a midnight pit stop to wal mart to tighten it. 
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: Davisio on December 21, 2015, 11:08:22 AM
Belt went loose on me too. In fact, burned one up.
I flipped the alternator bracket to prevent it from moving.
That worked.
At least.... until now.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 21, 2015, 12:06:02 PM
I will look into it later in the week.  It may be like the last Mini I had - appeared to be "eating" belts - turned out to be a batch of weak belts that would stretch easily.  I got another brand of belt that was also just a tad shorter and it stopped eating belts.

I also found entering second gear is sometimes "crunchy".

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 26, 2015, 03:02:14 PM
 got to drive it a bit today.  I had begun to forget how much fun they are to just drive.

I've gotten about half the hesitation worked out.  It still stumbles a bit coming off idle.  I checked a couple of the vacuum lines, time to trace the rest and begin looking at the sensors.  Still debating converting to carb.

I think there may still be a slight issue with the right front brake dragging - it starts getting a bit of right pull when putting the clutch in to shift or coast after a bit of driving.  It also gets a little low-speed "squeal" when turning - like something s slightly dragging.


Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on December 26, 2015, 05:18:42 PM
I wonder if something is hanging up within the calipers.  8.gif
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on December 27, 2015, 12:39:53 AM
My thoughts were either a sticking caliper or a bad flex hose on that side (even if new, it could be defective).

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on December 27, 2015, 03:42:12 AM
Yeah all new stuff but something must be defective. 
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on January 16, 2016, 05:00:19 PM
Finally got a chance to do a little work on the Mini today.  I swapped in the new LHD accelerator pedal.  I also found the original pedal stop - it had been installed under the left side firewall bolt for the clutch/brake pedal box!  I moved it over to the right side and it let me adjust the accelerator cable nicely.  I also had a friend be a second set of eyes and adjusted the brake light switch.

I still has some of the hesitation coming off idle, especially if done as a sudden significant push on the pedal.  If gradual, it keeps up and the engine has almost no hesitation in picking up rpms all the way up the range.  If there is a heavy electrical load (all lights on) it tends to hesitate a bit more coming off idle.

I have all new vacuum lines for the system and fuel tramps on the way, just in case there is something amiss there.  I ordered two fuel traps and an extra of the shortest line to try a double trap arrangement.  From there it will be trying to check out the sensors, stepper motor, and throttle position potentiometer.

Some may still be the older fuel in it.  Need to get it out and run it more to flush new fuel through the system.  I do have B12-ChemTool in the tank to help.

If I can't seem to get the stock FI working smoothly, I may just have to go with converting to carb.  At which point I will be picking on Dan as to how some things went together - such as the dash and various odd wiring.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on January 16, 2016, 07:08:12 PM
Electrical isn't my specialty lol.  Everything turns on and off and doesn't catch fire.  It's been out of sight out of mind for a couple years so I'm foggy on some of my work.  I do know that the engine and components were very poor in condition from corrosion and sitting.  The hesitation is likely a sensor gone bad.  Though the previous owner reported sticky valves at one point, so anything is possible. 
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on January 16, 2016, 09:34:30 PM
I don't think it is "sticky valves" as it revs strong when you don't try to put your foot into it heavily.  When I've driven it, it scoots nicely once off idle and runs down the highway as expected.  The engine itself does not have rattles or odd noises, just the stumble coming off idle if a lot of electrical load and/or being a bit aggressive on the acceleration.

My thoughts were leaning to a poorly functioning sensor.  I just hope it is not one of the "NLA" ones.  I'll be hitting up the MiniForum (UK) for clues on how to diagnose the sensors without the ECU comm tool.

I also "massaged" the bonnet a bit more and got a little better alignment of the front lip.  Not perfect, but much better than before.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on January 25, 2016, 08:41:58 PM
I finally got another chance to tinker on the Mini this afternoon.

I think I finally found the culprit of the hesitation off idle: a split elbow on one of the vacuum lines to the MAP sensor.

I had decided to try replacing all of the lines as that seems to be the most common culprit per the folks in the FI section of the UK Mini Forum.  As I was pulling off the old lines and inspecting them, I found one of the elbows at the fuel trap had a long split.

Unfortunately, one of the replacement connectors on the air temperature sensor also broke.  I had to go get the right size connector to fix that, so testing will have to wait until sometime tomorrow.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on January 25, 2016, 08:56:29 PM
One of those connectors was fabbed up, but functioning.  Sounds like you're getting closer. 
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on January 27, 2016, 09:13:35 PM
Fixed (replaced) the electrical connectors on the wires to the air temperature sensor today.  Hooked it all back up and test ran it in the garage (big door open) - ran much better.  Most of the hesitation/bogging on sudden acceleration off idle is now greatly reduced.  Still bogs slightly when under full electrical load (all lights on, heater fan on, etc.) but recovers much better.  As the engine warms, it goes almost completely away now.

From reading on the UK Mini forum, if the ECU has been replaced or disconnected for a long time, it can have some of this while it re-learns these transitions.  The re-learning will happen as it gets driven.

Next up is checking out the brakes for possible rubbing and lower the front suspension just slightly.  And get down to driving it!

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: tmsmini on January 28, 2016, 09:27:08 AM
The re-learning capabilities of the ECU happen pretty quick. A good 15-20 minutes and it should have settled in, but it is an ongoing adjustment.
With the ACR code reader, you can force a complete reset.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on January 28, 2016, 09:35:37 AM
Unfortunately, I do not have access to the ACR code reader.

I don't think I ran it for more than about 10 minutes in testing the fixes yesterday.  I need to get it out and drive it some and see how it behaves after some longer running.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: tmsmini on January 28, 2016, 01:10:06 PM
It sounds like you have it resolved and the code reader will not really provide anything that you don't already know.
If it gets to the point where you want to see what is "in there," let me know and we can work something out.
I will need to retrieve it from the current borrower.
Terry
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on January 28, 2016, 01:28:35 PM
Thanks for the offer on the code reader.  I will consider it for later if needed.

I'm going to finish the remaining "little things" and try to enjoy driving it.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on January 29, 2016, 05:03:47 PM
Got out to tinker on the Mini a bit this afternoon.  Today's task was to begin looking into the brake issue.

I put the back end up on stands to check and adjust the rear brakes: found they were dragging a lot, so loosened them.

I then put the front on stands to begin checking them and found both fronts locked up!  Now the car has been sitting for a few weeks, so they should have turned freely.  I backed off the bleed nipple on one front caliper and both released.  Pressing the pedal a couple times and it went rock hard with both fronts locked up again.  Release pressure at a caliper and they were free again.

I put the back end on stands to match the front and pressed the pedal a couple times again.  Fronts locked, rears dragging as previously set.  Released the pressure and all 4 spun freely (rears lost the little bit of drag).

Conclusion: something is retaining pressure in the whole system.

As far as I know, there are two things that will make the entire system retain pressure. A) Missing shim under the master cylinder.  B) Bad or wrong master cylinder.

Time to research both possibilities.  I looked for markings on the master cylinders and they both (clutch and brake) look identical. what markings I could find were the same on both.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on January 29, 2016, 05:13:36 PM
The master should be just fine, but I'd look into shimming it.  Kind of odd it's intermittent. 
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on January 29, 2016, 05:42:10 PM
Right now it is very consistent about locking up.  It may be because I was under there at part of the mounting bolts for the pedal box.  The stop bracket for the accelerator pedal had been put on the wrong side of the brake/clutch pedal box.  I removed the left side bolt to the tow-board to remove the bracket and reinstalled that bolt.  Then I removed the right side bolt and installed the bracket there for holding the accelerator pedal away from the tow-board.

That may have allowed the pedal box to shift just enough to keep the master from releasing all the way.  Looking online, there is a gasket supposed to be under the brake master cylinder.  I will likely order one and put under to see if that fixes the problem.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: Spitz on January 31, 2016, 11:53:58 AM
When I found that my new Traveller's front's were lretaining pressuer....and melting the slave rubbers....it turned out to be collapsed rubber brake lines.
If yours arent new...it's something to check
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on January 31, 2016, 02:05:52 PM
According to Dan (supported by exterior inspection) all of the brake components are new.

The whole system (all four corners - single line system) is retaining pressure.  Releasing pressure at just one bleed nipple is releasing the whole system.  This leads me to believe it is not the hoses.

I cannot see any gasket/shim under the brake master cylinder.  I think it was marginal before I was under the pedal box setting up the stop bracket for the accelerator pedal (it is held in place by the right side bolt of the pedal box).  The bracket had been placed on the left side of the pedal box, so I had to remove the left bolt to retrieve the bracket.  I reinstalled the left bolt before removing the right bolt, but it may still have let the pedal box shift just that fraction enough that the "pressure lock up" now happens every time.

I spoke with Jack at 7Ent and he agreed it sounded like a missing shim/gasket under the brake master.  I have that part on order (along with a few other trim bits) with 7Ent and it is supposed to ship Monday - arrival expected near the end of this next week.  At that point, we'll see if that fixes the brake issue.  That "should" take care of the mechanical bits that were needed.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: Willie_B on January 31, 2016, 02:54:41 PM
Had the same problem. The new master I had put in had the push rod was too long to fully release. Swap master again. Probably could have just changed the push rod but did not want to mess with it then.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on January 31, 2016, 04:07:26 PM
Hopefully there is room to insert the gasket/shim under the current one and it solves my problem.

I know Dan had to replace the vertical studs in the pedal box for mounting the master cylinders.  They seem just long enough for how things are currently mounted and it looks will be close as to whether there will be enough threads with the shim/gasket underneath.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: jeff10049 on January 31, 2016, 07:30:11 PM
If it has lock washers you can ditch them to get more threads just use locktite. Or thin nylock nuts if you can find them ace has them around here.  I'm not sure how much more you need for it to release  but 10 thousands could be enough to lock up the brakes so thread length may be a non issue unless you have to stack up gaskets. I'm sure shimming will fix it I had the same problem on my last mini on the current one I took the gaskets back out to get less free play they seem to be all over the place on how accurate eveything lines up.

Jeff

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on January 31, 2016, 07:43:01 PM
I will double check the next time I can get out to work on it.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: jedduh01 on February 01, 2016, 08:28:12 PM
Shim away - its a cheap try  - even if a replacement master has a Too long of rod - the shim should help

But- what about a proportioning valve?
http://www.7ent.com/products/pressure-reducing-valve-9-78-to-2000-fam7821.html

what if its not releasing?  Next step?
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on February 01, 2016, 08:37:06 PM
I haven't chased that far.  It would be the next step if the shimming does not work.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on February 03, 2016, 01:41:49 PM
Got some time with the Mini this afternoon.  I started with trying Dan's suggestion of just removing the clevis pin from the pedal and master cylinder push-rod.  That does the trick of giving just enough more drop in the push-rod for the brakes to release consistently, so shimming with the gasket should fix the problem.  The trick now is going to be fitting the gasket and getting the nuts back on to hold the master cylinder in place.  There are no lock washers present.  I don't have access to a proper shop, so may have to get creative on how to shave down the flange of the master if necessary.  I may also look for a slightly smaller diameter clevis pin.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on February 03, 2016, 02:39:38 PM
Low profile nuts?  Or elongating the clevis pin hole on the push rod?
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on February 03, 2016, 03:54:43 PM
I will explore those as options.  The gasket for shimming is supposed to arrive either tomorrow or Friday.

Do you remember where you got the flex line used for the clutch master to slave line?  I like the idea of the braided flex line if the hard line from the top of the brake master won't reseal if I have to disconnect it to get the shim/gasket underneath.

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on February 03, 2016, 04:02:10 PM
Probably got it from minispares.  You should have more than enough hard line available given the small amount of shimming required.  You'll find that when you disconnect from the top of the master it will pull away and clear without having to undo it from the next connection down line.  At least typically that's how it goes. 
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on February 06, 2016, 01:41:36 PM
The good news: shimming works!  The better news: there was enough movement in the hard line to do the work without having to disconnect it from the master cylinder - no bleeding the brakes required!

I will even be able to reuse the original clevis pin as it raised the master just enough to give extra play between the two and the pedal drop just enough lower than the push rod.

71.gif

Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on February 06, 2016, 02:44:54 PM
Good  4.gif. Usually the simplest things. 
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on March 11, 2016, 07:42:17 AM
I will start another thread for this next bit.  The FI is better since the vacuum line replacements, but still has some hesitation spots - occasionally from idle, mostly when trying to give a small acceleration while cruising, such as starting up an incline.

From the research I have been able to do, it is likely an aging sensor.  The problem: most of the sensors are now NLA.

So, I will be converting it to a carburetor.
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: 94touring on March 11, 2016, 07:58:48 AM
Hence the fuel tank? 
Title: Re: 1985 Tahiti Blue (was Flur, now ??)
Post by: MPlayle on March 11, 2016, 08:04:33 AM
Yep.

See the new thread.