Have forward movement in all gears...... including reverse.

[Funpig]

Well its been some time since I last wrote and to be honest I was getting a bit depressed at how much this little car has been fighting me, but I have finally successfully got this thing to run well and go into gear.  I replaced the new clutch master line with another new clutch master line and Voila I was able to bleed it and get the damn thing to go into gear.... but now there is a new issue to overcome... the car will go forward in all gears INCLUDING reverse.  I can row through all the gears as it should.  Lift the lever and push all the way to the right and it seems to do what it is supposed to do to put into reverse but when I let out the clutch... forward.

Question:  Is this internal to the transmission or just an adjustment of the rod from the tranny back to shift lever?    BTW: this is a rod change set up.

Thanks in advance everyone... and... sorry for all the noob questions.

[MiniDave]

I think it pretty much is in the linkage, but the way to tell for sure is to disconnect the rod, and use something to move the rod into the transmission independently, and see if it's in reverse. If it is, problem identified, if it isn't - same thing, but now you know where to look.

New hose did the trick huh? Good to know - I've seen that with brake hoses but never a clutch hose.

[Funpig]

MiniDave...
I am afraid that doesn't make sense to me.  (Please remember...NOOB).  Are you suggesting that  that the rod isn't pushing in far enough for the reverse to engage? 

...and yeah it seems that the previous clutch line had a pinhole or something in it and wouldn't bleed correctly even after bleeding it for seemingly a million times.  Replaced it and bled it once and it worked.  So now off to conquer this next hiccup.
Thanks again.

MB

[MiniDave]

It sounds like the rod connected to your shift lever (hand end) isn't moving the rod in the transmission far enough to engage reverse, so disconnect it, then move the short rod coming out of the transmission and see if you can engage reverse, if you can the problem is in the linkage. Things to check, rear rubber mounts at the back of the rod change mechanism, also there is a rubber bushing at the front - on the transmission - just above where the rod goes into the trans - the other rod (steady rod) is attached there, if the rubber is gone out of this it could keep it from moving far enough to engage reverse.



In this pic you can see the two rubber mounts at the shifter end of the rod change mechanism. At the other end, the upper rod is the one that attaches to the transmission mount with the rubber surrounded bushing, it's a small thing that you'll have to remove the rod to see. It's pressed into the transmission housing and can be difficult to get out and back in again. That bushing sits just above and to the left of where the rod goes into the transmission...

If you find that bushing gone or knackered, do not attempt to beat it out of the transmission, it's easy to damage the trans by doing that, use a socket and nut/bolt arrangement to pull it out.

[MPlayle]

It sounds like the shift rod is not rotating quite far enough as you go over the reverse gate and you are actually dropping into fourth again when trying for reverse.

if the mounts or bushing Dave has indicated are worn enough, that will allow the entire mechanism to rock as you do the "lift, right, and back" to go for reverse.

[Funpig]

Thank you for the clarification guys.  I guess I know what I am going to be doing Thursday and if all goes well I will be taking my maiden voyage this weekend. 
Cheers!

[MiniDave]

When testing the trans, turn the rod as far to the right as it will go, then push it forward - that should be reverse.

[Funpig]

Well......  got under the car and can manually put the transmission in reverse without any problem so I guess that means I have too much play at the shift box and need to replace the bushings that hold it to the tunnel.  The bushing at the transmission side is in good shape with no play or movement. Has anyone replaced with something of a harder durometer like poly bushings or hockey pucks and if so what are your overall thoughts good and bad.   With the weather being nice for a few days I want to get this thing on all fours and ride around the neighborhood like a giggly little school girl  71.gif

[Willie_B]

Unless you have solid engine mounts you don't want solid shifter mounts. Need the wiggle room. Beside it helps quite any buzz at the shifter.

[Funpig]

WillieB....  That makes sense.   
Well so the saga continues however I am making forward progress.   
I was underneath futzing with the shift rod and putting things back together under the guise that I will be replacing the bushings.  I jump inside to row through the gears and the shifting feels notchy and good. (Previously it has always felt like you were shifting a dishrag.  Things would go into place but really sloppy).
So.. start it up and check out all the gears....good.  It's like a new car.   Reverse.....grinds a little, push harder on clutch pedal less grind, push as hard down on pedal as possible and voila.. slips right into gear no grinding.  So.......  it looks like everything is in good order except for clutch pedal that hits rug too soon and doesn't give me the clearance that I need to get into gear.   I think I am going to have to pull it out, notch it and weld it back up to get the clearance that I need.... or get the pedal that was shown in my previous post that shows the difference of the 3 various clutch pedals.

[94touring]

You have a faulty master, slave, or push rod out of adjustment.  Or maybe air in the system still since your last bleeding with the new line.

[jedduh01]

Add to that= make sure all your clevis pins are TIGHT and no wobble or loose.  Mith he multiple pivots . Any looseness is multiplied and you can end up with JUST NOT enough movement to work.

Lengthening the push rod is also a Remedy.  to get further Push out of the clutch.

[Funpig]

It really is the clutch pedal arm.  Everything else is brand spanking new.  Everything. 

I did get it figured out.  When I push the clutch to the floor and just a little more it goes into reverse with no grinding or anything.  Smooth.  You can already start to see the mark on the brand new carpet of the bottom of the clutch arm from me trying to engage the gears.   The good news is..... I took it out of the shop today for the first time since its initial arrival a year ago.  Obviously there is going to be more to do but I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel and am reinvigorated to get this little project done.   I don't think I have told you guys but after the restoration is complete I plan on turning this little van into a pinhole camera.  More on that later.  In the meantime I must say thank you to everyone that takes the time to help out.  After being on VWvortex for years and dealing with the many egos there it is really great to be able to be a part of a community that is willing to help out with the numerous questions posted by us noobs!
Cheers!
MikeB

[BruceK]

Nice looking Mini you go there!    Glad to hear you have it sorted out.     For a minute there I was wondering if you didn't know you had to pull up the gear lever on a rod change to select reverse.

[MiniDave]

Hey Funpig, we have a run coming together in March, think you'll be done in time? WillieB lives in your 'hood, you could caravan over with him......

Then we'd all get to see up close what you've been working on!

Glad you have the clutch sorted!

BTW, just for purposes of discussion.....I never saw what lengthening the pushrod would do ...all that does is push the piston further into the slave cylinder, the amount of travel provided is strictly a function of the size of the two pistons (master and slave cylinders), and the distance the pedal moves the one in the master cylinder, moving the piston down further into the cup doesn't change the total distance it moves, only it' s start and end points.

[94touring]

I don't know the mechanics behind it but I've had pushrod arms out of adjustment enough that shifting was a problem and one car years ago that it took a small nut jammed on the end of the pushrod to get things to work.  My assumption was the hydraulics ran out of oomph at the end of the cylinder travel.

[94touring]

I'll also add that I've had a car with sloppy clevis pins that couldn't shift until they were properly sized and the blue mini flur needed the thickness of a gasket under the master to keep it from locking the brakes up.  The hydraulics are very sensitive on these cars.

[Funpig]

Hey guys...  well I took out my clutch pedal, notched it, bent it and welded it back up and guess what.... it works like BUTTER!!!! 71.gif.  Now all my pedals rest on the same plane and shifting in all gears including reverse are not a problem.  One problem solved and on to new ones.   Now I have to figure out why it runs pig rich under load.  Timing is set.  Got a colortune and runs correct at idle but with a little throttle goes rich.   Going to dig into the carb this weekend.  The fun never stops!

[MiniDave]

Yay!

What carb are you running? Sounds like a needle change is in the works.....

[MPlayle]

Has it always run rich?  If not, then it may be that the oil in the dash pot has drained and needs topped up.  (Too little or no oil and the dash pot will rise too fast leading to a rich condition on acceleration.)

If it has always run rich and the oil is topped up (spring also in place), then as Dave says, a needle change may be required.

This site will let you compare SU needle profiles on a graph:
http://www.mintylamb.co.uk/suneedle/

This is another SU needle profile site that may also be helpful:
http://teglerizer.com/suneedledb/

[MiniDave]

Wow Mike, those are some great resources! Thanks for posting those..... 4.gif

[Funpig]

I believe that the carb is an HS4 carb that was part of a set.  It came with the car when I bought it.  THe car never ran before I bought it so I got a rebuild kit for the carb and replaced everything including the needle.  I am going to start with topping off the oil in the carb although it looks like it only needs a smidge of oil to be at the right point.   Here is the only thing about this carb... it doesn't have the little lift pin for the needle like it talks about in either of my manuals and when I was reading through the Vizard book about tuning carbs it looked as if my carb could possibly be an HS6 which means my rebuild kit is wrong because I bought the one for the HS2/4 carb.   Is there anything specific on the body of the carb that differentiates an HS4 from an HS6? 
Thanks guys!
MikeB

[John Gervais]

This SU needle program allows you to compare annular area between 2 needles, as well as needles from different jet families.  If you wanted to compare a needle from a 0.100" jet to a 0.090" jet, it's possible.  You can also raise or lower the jet for needle 2 and see the change in annular area to each calibration point.  If that isn't enough, you can also modify needle #2 as if you'd filed or sanded it and see how the annular area was affected by removing 0.001" too much at a given calibration point.

http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.uk/technical_carb.htm - requires that you install the Libre Office version of Excel.

There is a newer version available, called Needles.024.ods; having tested it for Ian and contributed ideas and stuff, I have a copy but don't know if I can send it to you.

An option is that maybe Ian will eventually update the version on the mk1 site, or maybe Dan can install it here on RMF.

Attached images are screen shots (.jpg) that I made comparing a fixed MME needle to a biased AAA needle, and the same MME to a modified AAA to achieve the same effective dimensions.  My 'modification' to the AAA resulted in a tad too much being sanded from position number 7, resulting in just a tad more fueling at that point.

[towjoe]

Take a look at how to profile needles . It leaves no hesitation . You can really dial your needle in.


http://www.terryhunt.co.uk/tech/picsb/pics.htm

I got my measurement from  AC Dodd.

AC's SU Custom needle profile service....
Due to the obvious need for a proper needle advice service, I will dedicate this thread to reccommending needle profiles to people. Post up your full spec including cam, compression ratio, capacity and I will write down a profile that would be pretty close, giving no flat spots etc. Please also state which carb piston damper is fitted. It is of course impossible to get these things spot on by guessing or calculating, so the profile will HAVE to be checked. I will not of course except any responsibility of engine damage etc as you will still need to check and maybe tweek the profile on a rolling road.

I will write the profile up and it will be up to you the user to have your needle profiled to the spec. I will of course put down a needle that can be modified to suit the suggested profile. I will also state a suggested spring.

Please remember that no needle will be able to cure the ills of a worn carb. As a rule, if you are serious about economy and performance/general good manners, if the carb is more than 5 years old have it fully rebuilt or a fit a new unit. It is only when the carb in in A1 condition can you then calibrate the unit to give the best mixture control.

So thats it really if you have needle issues post away and I'll do my best to help.......

http://specialistminiforums.yuku.com/topic/4131/ACs-SU-Custom-needle-profile-service




Regards
towjoe 77.gif

[Funpig]

Ok guys.  Well the oil in the dash pot was up to snuff and still running pig rich.  Took out my needle and made some measurements with my calipers and here are the numbers.... no wonder it runs so rich.   It appears that I have an AAG needle based on the stamping.

885 860 820 800 770 750 730 700 690 675 650 620 600 580 500

The motor came as an extra loaded up in the back with the car so I don't know whether or not the engine has been modified internally.  In recognition of this I am going to start with a base understanding that it is a stock engine with a Stage 1 kit (that I have installed)

998cc standard motor
Hs4 carb
Intake.
K&N filter
Small bore LCB
RC40

Guessing that my needle should be an ADE or ABY?   What do you guys think?

MikeB