Just what it sounds like. I'm getting more and more interested in this idea and thinking that I might pop this kit onto Tink in the near future.
(http://www.twinkam.co.uk/.media/766597351683.png)
(http://www.minimania.com/images_temp/800600001sc0126b.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzU9QBAr1kc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzU9QBAr1kc)
http://www.twinkam.co.uk/shop/article_SC208B.004/A-Series-5-Port-Engine-Management-Kit.html?sessid=eXbbcj1nP1S35Sr4B06vOomqokdyRve93HSjigwhLVQDOsrfr7yaZbQ19PRocDcR&shop_param=cid%3D16%26aid%3DSC208B.004%26 (http://www.twinkam.co.uk/shop/article_SC208B.004/A-Series-5-Port-Engine-Management-Kit.html?sessid=eXbbcj1nP1S35Sr4B06vOomqokdyRve93HSjigwhLVQDOsrfr7yaZbQ19PRocDcR&shop_param=cid%3D16%26aid%3DSC208B.004%26)
That sure looks sweet. 4.gif
If you get serious let me know and maybe we can see if they will make a deal for 2 systems at the same time.
I have been looking at the Typhoon system from SC and I have not seen any reason why it would be a bad system. There are a few features built into the Typhoon system that dont come with the basic EFI kit, so there is always room to grow.
Just be advised that the EFI fuel tanks are a little expensive. Be prepared to either fork out for one or devise a retrofit.
Not 100% on it yet. I'm sitting at about 75%. Been doing a lot of research. The biggest hangup is I've never had to map anything like this myself. Some will say I'm a kid, but I have a lot of experience tuning carbs and none with EFI. Sort of backwards for my generation. But I want to learn it. And it seems like it will end up being a better commuter car setup which is what I've been building to the whole time. Most people say that it's given them a lot of good gains throughout the power band and especially in the lower register. The downside is I'll need to do a dyno tune run, I'll need to figure out how to run a few other systems like a fuel return, regulator, ECU, electronic ignition, etc.
I already have an LC1 wideband and a blank slate to work with. The problem is money. haha. Isn't it always?
The only bonus is that I'm looking to sell a few parts that I won't need as well. My great condition 7.5 gal tank, my brand new 123 dizzy, my carbs, etc.
Interested in anything you find out as well...was always a carb only guy until I read 'The Last Works Minis' and they were all injected.
Good luck!
That is badass. I want that on my truck now.
Dyno tuning is not a must as I have tuned my old car on the street. The dyno will get the last bit of power out, but tuning with the wideband and a datalogger is nearly as good. If you know how to tune a carb, then you should be able to pick this up and run with it.
Any though on going to a 7 port head to make the fueling easier?
For my purposes (fun street car) I don't think I'll get enough benefit from the cost of a 7 port setup.
Re-reading the Works Mini book again the other night while waiting for soccer practice to end...
The 1997 car had a Swiftune built, multipoint injection system...producing 136hp at a max rev of 8200rpm. What surprised me more than the power was that it came from 1293cc!
And at only 8k gbp cheap, too! :D
$8k? Where do I sign up?!
Quote from: MtyMous on July 16, 2014, 09:11:35 AM
$8k? Where do I sign up?!
$12k....15 years ago.
http://www.swiftune.com/ (http://www.swiftune.com/)
You need that. 4.gif
I just want the 6spd dog box. 77.gif
I know this is an old thread, but I am working on a couple of EFI variations.
One using the SC kit and another using a Microsquirt-based system. Progress is very slow, but when I have an update I will start a thread.
Terry
I think that this thread should be dug up anyway.
I have been looking into the Holly EFI system. It comes as a universal kit and looks the part. It also has quite a bit of support over here as well, which is the downfall of all of the brit ones on the market. Its not plug and play, but it is close enough especially at $1600.
Anyone else going a different way? I have always liked the idea of the mega/microsquirt units, just never had the patience for putting one together.
The main issue is the five port head. The SC kit is basically an electronically controlled carburetor. The Micro/Mega squirt options use specific code to manage the siamesed inlets. For my Microsquirt based system I will be using the MPi inlet and throttle body.
I am not looking at this to extract large power gains from the old A series, just gain smooth and consistent running.
Terry
I have some engines to experiment with:
(http://www.tmsmini.com/cooper/images/2014_MPI_engine/engine_array-01.jpg)
You engine hoarding SOB. Haha.
I should probably mention that I have in fact decided to get the SC 5 port kit. It will be fitted to my 1380 with Kent 286 and built head ( some other goodies in there, too). And I will obviously keep you guys posted when I get to the point of fitting and running. Probably won't be in the next couple months though. Obviously more info will be in my build thread as updates roll in.
Updating this with another photo:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UaIq0dk_N8AO0t6eU5bh0XBlHdTSh4LXw48BhJucSNo=w1262-h841-no)
almost ready to start
Terry
That's awesome, Terry. Is that the SC 5 port kit? I'm jealous. Mine will be on order here soon after I figure out which head I want for my 1380. Oh yeah... and find the scratch. haha
Yes, dredging up the old thread. It is the SC 5 port for the MPi adapted to fit in the MK I body.
A few more items to get to 7 and it can be run. The engine was broken in before, but the installation needs to be tested. Nick at 7 Restoration did most of the work on it including all the body work and now completing the engine install.
Terry
That looks like a very 'clean' installation! Bravo!
The cleanliness credit goes to Nick.
At this point I am ready to get it on the road again.
Dang. I was hoping you were going to break in the engine with the fuelie setup so I could copy your tactics. haha. I'm planning to have mine broken in with the fuel injection. I don't want to deal with running a different setup, but I need to find the best way to do it. I want a reliable motor, even if it's inconvenient.
MtyMous, I have an FI tank to sell, looks brandy new inside and out if you need it.
Dave, I do need a tank. I've got a carb tank that is perfect. I was going to weld a bung onto it to receive the fuel return. Shoot me an email with some pics and details. (Texasgy524 at hotmail)
Will do, tomorrow.....but it looks clean as new, has the sender but not the pump.
Email and pics sent, let me know if you need more...
email came back, I'll try to send the pics in a PM from here.....
Pics....
It runs, although not well.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/LleouA95BWE (https://www.youtube.com/embed/LleouA95BWE)
I need to make an appt with a dyno and get it home.
Lots of work still to be done, but nick is ready to release it...
That's awesome. What sort of growing pains have you dealt with so far? Anything you would do differently the second time around?
The car is still with Nick, so once I have it back and drive for a bit, I am sure I will find things. I would try to talk to others who have used SC. On the MPi kit, which should be close to plug and play as all the sensors and more are builtin, it seems to me the information supplied leaves something to be desired.
When you wait for a week for an email response after having spent a not small amount of money(from my perspective), I would think customer service could be improved. Other people have told me that I should have called. I will admit I did get a quick response recently when I could not download the maps from the website. However the links are still broken and it is not clear the maps I received are the correct ones.
The hardest part was getting the fuel feed and return lines done nicely on a 60s body.
I still plan to finish the Megasquirt/microsquirt version, but it does require more fabrication and adaptation.
Jeez louise, I know it's heretic but a Honda D series fits right in these cars and makes 135 hp reliably with a 5 speed gearbox for about $3k if you DIY.
Makes me wonder why people spend this much money just to keep it "original".
I know if I had realized how much I was going to spend to fix up mine I would have seriously considered doing a swap instead...... I spent more than that for 1/2 the hp.
3k you say...I need to investigate the swap more.
Yes, if you build your own subframe, if you buy MiniTecs stuff it'll run twice that, or about what a brandy new rebuilt motor from 7 Enterprises runs, with 1/2 the HP.
I'm still considering it for Buzz......maybe buy another car with a tired engine, and swap his into that car, then Vtec Buzz.
I know it's frowned upon, but my buddy has over 20K almost trouble free miles on his Vtec D-series in his P'up, and frankly most of the issues he's had were directly attributable to MiniTec's build - I'm not trying to bad mouth them, just that's where the issues were. His P'up is seriously fast and hella fun to drive too......
It's another way to get EFI into your Mini, and costs about the same as putting EFI on the original A series motor!
Most of the guys who have driveability issues with their V-tec conversions have twin cam motors, the single cam D series makes plenty of HP, fits the engine compartment better and is a much simpler install.
This is Don's P'up.....
I looked up their drop in kit with rebuilt engine. $9600 is pretty tempting considering I'd likely have more in my A series with all the suspension and ancillary items and 40 less hp.
That's kinda my point, a lot of guys are spending big dough to do what you can already easily do for less money, and getting less results to keep it "original". And I don't have a problem with that, after all it's their money their car.
But, other solutions are out there now....that are equally tempting.......plus I'm a hot rodder at heart! ;D
Oh, and I think the D series weighs a bit less than the Mini engine/trans combo - on top of that, Don's P'up has A/C, which it easily runs - just like in a Honda!
I do like that the D series doesn't require the nose to be extended as well. Easy to turn it back original if needed.
Yes, it's pretty much a bolt in deal, you do have to cut away the front part of the inner fenders tho. The other thing I would do if I went the drop in deal is request a taller final drive ratio - the stock ratio is for cars with 15" or bigger wheels so you're turning 4K @ 70 mph. The engine will wind all day long but why not have it a little quieter by having it turn a lot less rpm.....Don has to wear ear plugs on long highway drives in his - I don't in Buzz.
The last thing I'd do is spec stock motor mounts, those poly ones really vibrate the car something fierce! They were the first thing we changed on Don's car and it cut the NVH in half.
You don't need to spend the money for a rebuilt engine, there are plenty of JDM suppliers with low mileage engines out there - but you have to be careful which engine you spec, they made the D series in anything from 85 to 150hp.
There's a fellow in Canada who has all the specs of his home built frame for a D series Vtec swap online if you're interested. I've talked to him several times at Mini GTG's - he lives in BC and has been to MMEmW at least twice that I know of and has driven his car there each time....issue free.
Here's his blog page.... http://minimikebc.tripod.com/ (http://minimikebc.tripod.com/)
I guess it all depends on what you are expecting to gain from adding EFI or modifying the engine. 150 HP is alot for a road going Mini and I suspect setup to get that power to the road will take some work no matter what type of engine is used.
These are great words for many performance enhancements, "pretty much a bolt in deal."
Any money spent will not be recovered when it is time to sell, so just enjoy it.
Terry
I'm a daily driver like Terry, we might both be the only ones in the SF bay area. Terry's cars are quite well known for originality and being 100% in shape and no-excuses presentability.
I totally see where the Vtec argument comes in, but it is the wrong car for a great engine. As our friend Carl has learned you then have to go through the rest of the car to put it in the same league as the engine. And by then you've just nullified the supposed $ savings behind the plan in the first place.
This was the reasoning behind Zcars, where a proper spaceframe and modern race components give you a safe platform for your Vtec or Busa. Yes I'm prejudiced cuz it's on my horizon and the two cars will sit next to each other with completely different functions. The Zcars would be for TSD rally only.
I made the mistake of trying to build a race vehicle from a street vehicle before with an offroad FJ build that was $150k plus and was still crap compared to the full-race Trophy Truck platform I could have just bought outright for $50k. I got sucked into the "while I'm at it, might as well do this" syndrome. First the supercharger, then a Currie rear end to keep up. Then bodywork. Then a full cage. It ended up being a heavy liability that was unplanned and non-competitive because the end goal wasn't clear from the beginning.
So I already had my Vtec lesson. I know that if I got a Vtec in my Mk1 I'll want rear coilovers, then a cage, fuel cell etc - because they are all very justifiable with that engine. I just wouldn't be able to stop.
Carl could have bought 2 Zcars for the money that would be unbeatable on the street and in competition, instead of the rolling project that as we know always has this or that that needs doing.
Drove the car home from the MOASF Blackhawk event in Danville, California where Nick had delivered it. Both cars were side by side.
I am sure there is some learning to be done, but it drove home nicely in the 95-100 degree heat with the ECU controlled fan kicking in at traffic lights. Seemed fine on the freeway as well, but that was later in the day and it had cooled down.
(http://www.tmsmini.com/cooper/images/lucyandethel-blackhawk.jpg)
Terry
I will document what was done eventually and post that. I may get to drive it later this week as my wife is off for a few days and said I could.
A few teething problems with the car, but not unexpected. I have a new MAP from SC to try this weekend.
A few things unrelated to FI to sort out, but that is expected as well with a complete strip and rebuild.
I need to get the AFR meter on it to see what it is doing from 1K to 2K.
Odometer died so not sure how many miles are on it, maybe only 300.
Terry
Speaking of gauges,
What sort of gauges are you running, and what does the kit require/accommodate? I've already got a great wideband, oil pressure, and water temp. I'm going to get a volt meter, oil temp, and one more. Thinking EGT.
Are there any sensors that are needed to plug into the ECU? Are there any that would be beneficial to have for tuning?
I started with a MPi engine and the MPi kit, so the engine had all the sensors needed and actually a number of them are not used.
The Typhoon ECU appears to be pretty robust and has capabilities beyond an A series. The software can display and log a wide range of inputs. I am not sure you need to monitor everything on a regular basis. But I do have gauges, coolant(separate from sensor), volt, oil temp, oil pressure. None of these interact with the ECU.
The kit will come with the required sensors, Idle Air Temp, Coolant, Crank sensor, Throttle position.
Certainly AFR is a benefit for tuning and can be connected to the ECU, but depending on the kit, it may not be provisioned for in the loom. For the MPi kit, it has a provision for the standard MPi narrow band, but I have been told it can be swapped out to a wide band.
Is there a tunable ECU that can easily be swapped into an SPi mini?
Quote from: LilDrunkenSmurf on October 09, 2015, 12:14:39 PM
Is there a tunable ECU that can easily be swapped into an SPi mini?
There is and I know a guy that has one for sale.
Quote from: 94touring on October 09, 2015, 12:33:48 PM
Quote from: LilDrunkenSmurf on October 09, 2015, 12:14:39 PM
Is there a tunable ECU that can easily be swapped into an SPi mini?
There is and I know a guy that has one for sale.
GIMME
Erm. I mean. Would you be so kind as to provide more information, kind sir?
I will ask him next time I talk to him and get back to you. 4.gif
Out of curiosity, what is it called?
No clue. It's pure coincidence I know because he was just telling me he had it about 2 weeks ago.
There are three that I am aware of:
Specialist Components
http://twinkam.co.uk/epages/191f6b26-60bf-483c-b021-755a0c9099c1.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/191f6b26-60bf-483c-b021-755a0c9099c1/Products/SC0127 (http://twinkam.co.uk/epages/191f6b26-60bf-483c-b021-755a0c9099c1.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/191f6b26-60bf-483c-b021-755a0c9099c1/Products/SC0127)
UMS
http://www.mini-cooper-clubman.de/html/programmable_efi_for_classic_m.html (http://www.mini-cooper-clubman.de/html/programmable_efi_for_classic_m.html)
VEMS
http://www.vems.us/ (http://www.vems.us/)
I would not say exactly plug and play, but it depends on what you are expecting from a "tunable" ECU
I'd like to avoid going full haltech, but I don't want to lean on a piggyback.
Use to have a haltech on my first rx7. My current rx7 has a pfc and I bought a data log kit and computer to tweak. Sure is nice to fine tune via computer vs adjusting carbs.
Yeah, if I go with Hondata for my S2000, it plugs straight into the OBDII port, and you can change tables live.
I'm hoping this one is just as easy to plug in and tweak on my own laptop.
Mostly because of this...
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/xhghjtvbfdtkf2n3oqfv.jpg)
The typhoon from sc looks good. I downloaded their software and it seemed pretty easy. The sensors that they offer are a little thin on the variety, but they specializes in the mini, so there will be a source of answers for your questions.
I will be using the holly hp setup and will be building my own harness as i plan on going a little crazy with the build. I gave the sc bmw head swap kit so i wont have the issues that you get with non specific aftermarket ecu controllers for the siamese port intakes that the 5 port has. Im choosing the holley because it has a good support community, a ton of features for the price and it is very simmilar to hp tuners. I also plan to use Delphi s and bosch sensors from GM to keep it simmilar to an ls setup so that it will mske more sense to me and local tuners.
I think that if this is your first go at fi, go with the typhoon.
I like the UMS, since a buddy keeps trying to convince me to megasquirt my whole fleet. Curious what the price is.
So that guy said he wants to hold off selling his computer till his car is back together.
I believe development on the UMS has slowed.
SXTune appears to be very similar to TunerStudio.