believe it or not, I have a Mini that won't start. I drove it last Wednesday night, it sat through Thursday. When I went to start it of Friday, it cranked and was getting fuel, but wouldn't start. it sat until this evening (Sunday), and the same thing. I suspect something electrical. checked the harnesses and fuses, and found nothing.
What's the next thing I ought to check? thanks.
Coil. Do you have one you can just lay in there and hook up?
Are you still running points? If so I'd have a look to see if they've closed up. If not, make sure you're getting voltage at the coil, and if so...replace the coil.
had a chance to look at things last night. Found the points were closed up, and looked even closer and saw that the white nylon piece (not sure what it's called) was knocked out of whack (see pic) I popped it back in place, but still not the fix.
I hope I'm just looking at a coil, cap, rotor and wire job, might be the time to upgrade to an electronic ignition too.
Anytime I open up a dizzy and see all that mess, I buy a pointless one. Just easier and works without any worries.
Yup. And you can get a complete electronic distributor from MiniSpares for under $80. And up! (as they say)
The blue points you have are called "sliding points". The nylon piece with the slot 'slides' the contacts back and forth across each other. The idea of this is the point of contact varies prolonging the life of the points. Standard non sliding points are red in colour.
I see you have problem similar, though different, to the one I just experienced.
I believe my coil to still be functioning, my ground wires and all that are ok. BUT - when I popped the dizzy cap and looked inside, the cap was clean and the rotor was thick with carbon. I replaced mine, because I have more than a few, but I also gently cleaned the sparkin' face of the old rotor with a bit o'really fine sandpaper. As they used to say in 'France', voila -
Try giving your rotor a bit of a cleanup without removing too much brass (try not to remove any brass - as little as possible) and see what happens.
You could also spray a quick shot of carb or brake cleaner on the bits under the cap to remove some of the excess grime. Place a small drop of oil on the circular sliding part of the points baseplate, a drop or two of oil on the wool pad under the rotor to lubricate the dizzy shaft and a dab o'grease on the 4-sided cam that the points' (blue) heel rides on.
would anyone know based on the year & model whether or not the coil has a ballist or not?
If it's original, what color is the wire that's connected to the coil positive? The easy and most common way to tell, is if it's a white wire directly to the coil positive, it won't have a ballast resistor and will use a 3Ω (non-ballast) coil as the resistance is built into the coil. If it's got a pink wire with a thin green stripe (a resistor wire), it'll use a 1.5Ω coil and need an external ballast resistor.
Of course, the electrical section of your trusty Haynes has wiring diagrams, but here's an article that Keith wrote some time ago.
https://mossmotors.com/sports-coil-by-intermotor (https://mossmotors.com/sports-coil-by-intermotor)
I added a few other articles and images - hope it helps -
Here's a typical non-ballasted ignition system -
Thanks John.
One last question before I order an electronic ignition — can anyone verify which distributor I have based on the pic? If not I can provide more
There should be a number on the side, either a 25D or 45D are most common.
It's a 45D4 if you've got the sliding points. As Dave mentioned, there's a number cast into the dizzy body.
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Electrics/Ignition/Service_parts/GCS2118.aspx?090804&ReturnUrl=/shop/classic/Electrics/Ignition/Service~parts.aspx|Back%20to%20shop (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Electrics/Ignition/Service_parts/GCS2118.aspx?090804&ReturnUrl=/shop/classic/Electrics/Ignition/Service~parts.aspx%7CBack%20to%20shop)
Ok, installed a new coil (pertronix flame thrower), new rotor (ordered a new cap & the thing is a defect), and new plug wires, new ground strap. Nothing. Also have but not yet installed an electronic ignition.
About ready to throw in the towel and send it to the repair shop...
Whatever happened that permitted the points slider to come loose and swing around backward may mean the spring effect on the points is also broken and they are failing to open. Do you have a spare set of points to try in the existing distributor?
no, the plan is to swap out to an electronic ignition.
do you think it would be necessary for fault-finding?
Thanks
Theres a chance. when the white bushing broke the spring strap shorted on something(totally a guess) and this would / could have wiped out the condensor,
While you're at it. it all looks grubby= tune up time. Electorninc ignition. + cap too = Youve done the wires + Coil well on its way.
replacement points are cheap but electronic igntion is click N go reliable.
Make sure you have 12V going to the Pertronix, and a 3 ohm coil. You can test the voltage by turning on the ignition and measuring the voltage at the + on the coil, leave it on for a few minutes to get the full effect of the ballast and see if the voltage drops off. If it does you will need to run a 12V wire from a switched location to the + side of the coil to make the Pertronix work correctly. Also, make sure when you hook up the Pertronix that you follow the instructions and wire it up correctly or you will blow the Pertronix unit - almost always, red to the + side of the coil and black to the - side of the coi.
I've an extra set of very lightly used sliding blue points and condenser that you can have for the cost of shipping from Denmark, though it might be cheaper to find a set locally.
*** Just checked my local post office prices and depending upon the final weight of the padded envelope, it'd be somewhere between $5 and $10.- without tracking. I might have an extra rotor to toss in the package to fill it out provided that the weight doesn't exceed the weight limit on the cheapest option.
If you're interested, just send me a private message with your address and we'll figure it out.
Quote from: John Gervais on July 25, 2018, 03:01:18 PM
I've an extra set of very lightly used sliding blue points and condenser that you can have for the cost of shipping from Denmark,
This is one of the things that makes this board so nice.
They've only got around 75 miles or so if I remember correctly. I was testing at the time between 32 oz 'S' points on a fixed backplate vs. the sliding blue. Certainly better than nothing, I've been carrying them in the boot for years, so why not - otherwise, I'll keep on carrying them.
Reading thru this again == I believe you have a 59D Distributor = Blue Sliding points.
Red sliders were the 45D
Blue Sliders 59D
Also as noted in for reference https://www.7ent.com/products/points-a-dsb191.html product detail.
59D A+ engines = very few A+ engines if any actually came to the USA in the 70's and 80's for a normal BMC car lookup. MGB's , Midgets etc...
MGB's used 45d Distributors from years 75 - 76
Moss might have a direction to get Blue points. too = 10$ from Seven.... Napa has 45D points for 11$ = https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHCS208
Just saying this if your new electronic ignition doesn't fit = its because you have a 59D not a 45D Distrubutor. however they may be interchangeable = I do not know.
A and A+ are not interchangeable, I know that - they have different drives and the length of the shaft is also different.
wow, thanks everyone.
I think the next step would be to install the electronic ignition, and see where I'm at. The one I have is for a 59D. I'm pretty sure my engine is an A+ (1982 Mini 1000 HL from Germany)
John, thanks for the offer. It would make my day to have a package sent from my ancestral homeland, but not necessary.
Dave, thanks for the troubleshooting info, definitely will need to bone up on my multi meter skills
I'll post again when I get some time to throw at it.
Thanks again
dumb question that I can't find an answer to:
I've installed the new electronic ignition and coil; wired red to +, and black to -.
Do I also hook the old wires (white on +, and white/black to -?
Yes, white to plus and white/black to minus. The white wire supplies power to the coil and ign unit, and the black/white is to make the tach work, if you have one.
Did your car have the ballasted wire? My car did when I converted to an electronic distributor. I had to trace the wire from the distributor area all the way up to firewall to bypass it.
all buttoned back up again, and nothing.
Bruce, it doesn't have a ballist.
I also have checked out all of the fuses, the battery, the new coil and the starter solenoid with the multimeter.
do I need to do anything with the harness that the old condenser was plugged into?
Does the car turn over and just no spark?
How does your engine ground wire look?
Quote from: 94touring on July 31, 2018, 05:25:15 PM
Does the car turn over and just no spark?
How does your engine ground wire look?
Yes, cranks but doesn't kick on.
Brand new ground strap.
Is it possible that the timing has been thrown out of whack to the point where it won't start?
Is it producing spark? Hold a plug to the block while cranking, wear rubber gloves 77.gif
Yes, it is possible for the timing to be far enough out when swapping distributors.
Manually bring the engine to TDC on #1. Then set the new distributor so that the rotor is pointing to the plug wire for #1. This will get you to an initial point that should allow it to start. Then set the proper timing using a timing light. Be sure to have the vacuum advance capped off at the carb while setting the basic timing at idle.
Quote from: 94touring on August 01, 2018, 09:08:48 AM
Is it producing spark? Hold a plug to the block while cranking, wear rubber gloves 77.gif
oh man, might have to work up the nerve to do that. Does make me think I should check the plugs (new last year)
Quote from: MPlayle on August 01, 2018, 10:16:04 AM
Yes, it is possible for the timing to be far enough out when swapping distributors.
Manually bring the engine to TDC on #1. Then set the new distributor so that the rotor is pointing to the plug wire for #1. This will get you to an initial point that should allow it to start. Then set the proper timing using a timing light. Be sure to have the vacuum advance capped off at the carb while setting the basic timing at idle.
I actually didn't replace the whole thing, just an electronic ignition swap, new rotor & wires.
To check spark, stick a small screwdriver in the end of the plug wire and hold it about 1/4" from a headbolt, then have someone crank it over.
It's best not to hold on to the plug while leaning forward on the fender, most pressure right in the crotch area..... 11.gif
Don't remember what hurt most, down there or the back of my head when I stood right up.
Lol, worst I've gotten was just a jolt on my hand, minor at that. :-\
just wanted to let you all know I gave up on trying to figure this thing out & sent it off to the repair shop this morning. I've spent more than a month of the short Mini season trying to figure it out, and decided I'd rather get back to driving it again. Thanks for all the help & info, and I'll do a final post when it comes back.
quick turnaround at the repair shop, the car is back. another rotor, new plugs and a timing adjustment, it's back on the road and running great. the silver lining is that my electronic ignition & coil install was done correctly.
Success! Looks like you are already enjoying your Mini.
oh yeah, I had to make up for lost time
Well done - enjoy!