A friend will be taking his Moke to the races in his race trailer and is looking for ideas on rear subframe tie downs.
I know how JG did his (can't find the pic tho, John), anyone else have some ideas on how to bold or weld some tie down plates onto the rear subframe?
Real easy to bolt or weld right to the bottom of the plates that run along under the cone and trumpet area. I'd think more toward the rear would be ideal for a tie down to gain clearance with straps going outward without hitting the wheels.
Edit: I'd pick the area that angles up in the rear.
Dave,
They make tie down brackets you can bolt or weld to the sub frame in the area that Dan is talking about. GR8KORNHOLIO had one on his frame but I don't know if it was taken off before he bought it or not.
Who sells them?
http://www.minimotors.com/parts/Austin_Mini_towing_eye_rear--21A1220R
I also found this idea......
Hmm, not a bad idea either.
My rear towing brackets are from Sparco (FIA/MSA approved). During my recent ride on the flat-bed recovery vehicle, we ratchet-strapped the mini down using tire straps.
mine was like the yellow one, but had 4 bolts. It bent all to hell halfway through the trip, glad I stopped for gas cause the backend of the car was all kinds of loose after it bent.
They're not designed to be 'tie-downs', but to be used to pull your car out of a ditch.
That said, these are thick and solid steel, but if you examine the subframe and it's 2 drilled drainage holes which I've utilized as bolt-holes (and drilled the 3rd), repeated up/down bouncing could cause the inner-most panel of the subframe to bend or crack, thereby loosening the bolts. A predominately linear pull, as in pulling your mini out of a ditch or off of a guard rail, won't bend the brackets or the subframe.
For tie-downs, I'd strongly recommend tire-straps to allow the suspension to work as needed, but I'd check them often.
Quote from: John Gervais on June 17, 2018, 06:28:12 PM
For tie-downs, I'd strongly recommend tire-straps to allow the suspension to work as needed, but I'd check them often.
Yeah, that's what I've always understood. Sort of a belt and suspenders approach. But new cars are typically transported to dealerships with just the body is tied down and the suspension under some sort of compression. But lately I've been seeing cars/trucks being transported by only straps around the wheels - in other words the wheels are fully secured but the car body is not, so the suspension does its normal job during transport.
When Dave and I went to MiniMeet West a couple of years ago, out in the middle of Arizona we drove past truckload after truckload of brand new Ram postal vans all being transported with just wheel straps holding them to the trailer - nothing else. And since then I've seen it done many times.
(http://santaclarita-towing.info/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Services-Flatbed-Towing-300x184.png)
So I wonder if there is a change in thinking about how to tie down a vehicle?
(https://www.johnsonstowing.org/wp-content/uploads/Fltabed-loaded.jpg)
I always liked threading a Axle strap (flat strap with D Rings) thru the rear subframe , Under the cone.. in a cross pattern to tie the rears down.
not hard to thread thru + not a permanent fixture.
(http://images.uscargocontrol.com/1415-2-x-2-axle-strap-with-2-stamped-d-rings_1_375.jpg)
Both of my trailers are setup to tie the cars down by the wheels. I would never tie a car down by the frames or body as you prevent the car from moving on its own suspension, and have seen busted shocks on the rear of a mini because they cranked the body down to stop it from bouncing and the hooks coming loose. The front/ rear tow eyes are just that tow points, not tie downs.
Looks like you can find wheel straps off ebay from 20-50 bucks depending on your flavor in pairs of 2. Suppose I'll order a couple sets to improve my towing method.
Then you have to set the rings in the floor to tie them to, and I would think those should be bolted clear thru to the trailer frame
Should be able to go right to the sides and clip into existing channels.
I wouldn't do it that way......
I have the same channels as shown here. Fairly certain that this is their purpose.
The "channels" or "boxes" on the sides like that are called "stake pockets" and are meant for inserting 2"x4" uprights for side rails. They are not really meant for using as tie-down points like in the pictures Dan posted.
Every commercial carrier I have seen use wheel straps they tie down to channels or rings in line with the wheels, not to the outside. They try to keep the straps as linear as possible. Having the strap pulling to the outside like that looks like a big risk of the strap slipping/pulling off from the wheel.
If you were to use the stake pockets on the sides, I would think you would want to use ones further from the wheel being secured to keep the strap as linear as possible.
I dunno but google shows a lot of people doing it that way. Probably a variety of combinations that work just fine.
Some ideas -
http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Towing-Auto-Hauling/Wheel-Nets-Auto-Car-Tie-Downs (http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Towing-Auto-Hauling/Wheel-Nets-Auto-Car-Tie-Downs)
Scroll down - aside from many types of D-rings of different load ratings and such,they explain different types for different requirements:
http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Tie-Downs-Hardware (http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Tie-Downs-Hardware)
Browsing that website looks like a side mount setup is what I'd need for my trailer.
Quote from: MPlayle on June 18, 2018, 07:11:23 PM
The "channels" or "boxes" on the sides like that are called "stake pockets" and are meant for inserting 2"x4" uprights for side rails. They are not really meant for using as tie-down points like in the pictures Dan posted.
Every commercial carrier I have seen use wheel straps they tie down to channels or rings in line with the wheels, not to the outside. They try to keep the straps as linear as possible. Having the strap pulling to the outside like that looks like a big risk of the strap slipping/pulling off from the wheel.
If you were to use the stake pockets on the sides, I would think you would want to use ones further from the wheel being secured to keep the strap as linear as possible.
Yep, what he said.....if you do it the way the blue MINI is done there is very little to stop the car from moving fore and aft under hard braking or accelerating up a hill, not a good design IMHO.
Dual strap side mount with chain extensions is what I'd need. The straps are spread out to handle more load vs the single strap. I'd need the extensions because my trailer is wide and no risk of fraying depending on where I hook into.
Or this... has a video too.
https://protiedowns.com/collections/soft-tie-down-kits/products/8-point-tie-down-system-with-grab-hooks-14-long
At least the last picture posted of the side-mount style has a full cinch-strap horizontally around the middle of the wheel to snug down the "cap" over the wheel.
Dan, I wonder if the straps rub on the paint while going down the road from your last post?
Looks like so long the straps are angled outward there's no risk. Wide flares will limit how long you can go parallel to the car though. I suppose a wide car on a narrow trailer would reduce it an amount too.
Edit: looking this over it seems pretty hard to rub the body.
Just pulled into my shop. My trailer aside from rails has a box on each corner to strap into. There's a lot of options at least.
I prefer this style but it may not work as well on your trailer, where the bonnet style straps go over the tire then straight down (or as close to it as you can) thru a flat loop, then attach somewhere further back where it's easy to reach the ratchet/release This is similar to how Uhaul does it on their car haulers, and I figure they know how to do it.
On our lightweight Minis, I don't know why this wouldn't work too....
I've always used that style too, but on Uhaul trailers as you said. If I had a full metal bed I'd probably set something up more like that. I really just have a metal frame along the perimeter to work with. Till this thread I've never given it any thought and have always just looped into the subframes. I'll probably have a safety chain with a bit of play on front and rear subbies in case of a full strap failure. I think I'm sold on that link I posted with the video and dual side strap setup.
Quote from: MiniDave on June 19, 2018, 10:44:31 AM
On our lightweight Minis, I don't know why this wouldn't work too....
Looked at that too. My only concern is rim damage.
I just use loops and normal straps, simple effective and adapts to any tire size.
Never tie a Mini down by the body or the subframes. You will certainly damage something. As for new cars being hauled and tied down by the bodies instead of the wheels, there's 2 reasons they do that. First off, they have double layers and lower the top level down really close to the bottom cars. Allowing them to bounce on their own suspension would probably cause damage to the roof. Secondly, the guy tying them down don't own them and really don't care if he damages the shocks or suspension. As long as there's no visable sheet metal damage when he unloads, he's golden!
Straps will never hold the car in an accident......the only thing that will are chains and chain boomers.
I ended up just getting these for all 4 wheels.
That looks like a good solution, you'll know for sure in 10 days or so.
Wonder if Michael's trailer will arrive in time for him to use it to tow his Moke.
It will be very close as to whether I get the trailer in time. The shipment tracking shows an estimated delivery to the cycle shop handling the sale as being Monday, Oct 1. Unfortunately, being a motorcycle shop, they are closed that day, so it would bump back to Tuesday, Oct 2. I leave to head for DFW to meet Bruce on Wednesday, Oct 3.
Are you set up to flat tow it if the trailer doesn't come in time, or will you just hit the road and drive up?
Bruce, you're planning to flat tow Emma, right?
Google says it's only 15 min longer to go up 75 from Plain Old, Texas as compared to going I-35, then you could pick Dan up along the way?
Yes I will be flat towing my Mini up. And yes we are planning on going through Tulsa. Love to travel with Dan if he's okay with that.
As of now I get home the morning of the 4th and will be loading up early afternoon to make the trip.
I am set up to flat tow and will most likely be doing that.
I did a brief "dry run" of flat towing the Moke behind my 2016 Clubman in a large open parking lot (Shriner Temple is just across loop 1604 from my apartment). I will also get another trial this weekend as I will be flat towing to the TxABCD in Round Rock this weekend.
Quote from: 94touring on September 26, 2018, 08:11:53 PM
As of now I get home the morning of the 4th and will be loading up early afternoon to make the trip.
We should be hitting Tulsa about that time.
Bruce just keep me posted. I should have your number and will text as I fly back from work with my status. I'm actually trying to swap trips around to be home the night of the 3rd to allow more time to get the car loaded.
Will do. I have your number and I'll keep you updated.