I know Paul has one....anyone else?
I'm thinking of buying one to do this upcoming project (what I'd really like to buy is a laser welder but......way too much money!) right now I only anticipate welding steel - stainless, DOM Chrome moly and mild - and maybe aluminum, depending on what the local guy wants to charge me to do whatever I need done - fuel tank, maybe some intercooler pipes, SS exhaust (because I don't have a way to back purge)
As far as welding itself, I have done Tig in the past, but it's been a while, and I've never done aluminum (or aluminium either!)
One thing I have learned in my reading is that aluminum requires certain capabilities that the cheap ones don't have, but I think that's mostly a quality issue not performance.
So, any suggestions of a decent TiG welder that doesn't require either the blue or red tax?
It really needs to be AC capable to do aluminum, most of the "cheap" ones are DC only.
As far as back purging goes to do piping, tanks, etc.. you can buy fittings, plugs, and what not to do it. They are not nearly as cheap as a guy thinks they should be so you would probably need to do quite a bit of it to justify buying it. There are other ways you can DIY it though and just tee off your argon tank.
This is the one I got, it is probably the best bang for your buck. At least that is what I determined at the time I got it. If you watch this guys videos on you tube you will see he knows what he is doing. He teaches Tig welding and runs a lot of machines in his shop for classes, testing, reviews etc... this is the only "cheap" tig he recommends, enough so that he also sells it.
https://weldmetalsonline.com/collections/new-products/products/primeweld-tig325x-ac-dc-tig-welder-with-foot-pedal
edit: just like everything else these days I see the price has gone up quite a bit. I paid quite a bit less for it then what it appears to be now. You have to factor in getting an Argon tank as well if you don't already have one. I wish I had more time to mess with it again, I was starting to get somewhat decent with it and have not had time to mess with it since.
This one claims to be AC/DC.....
https://www.harborfreight.com/tig-200-professional-acdc-tig-welder-with-120240v-input-56825.html?_br_psugg_q=tig+welders
I am not super familiar with the Titanium version of the HF welders, I know when I was looking I was considering their Vulcan version of the multi process machine that does AC which looks to be about $1200 now. It was, and still is, near the same price as the one I got but the one I got is supposedly miles better, it has a CK torch, etc..
I know when I was looking the HF was really the only "cheap" version worth looking at. Once you got out of the $600-$700 (now appears to be $800 to $900) range you were better off jumping up to the one I got, which at the time was right around $1000 (now appears to be $1400).
When I was looking at the HF welders I would have also had to purchase the extended warranty to match the warranty I got with the Primeweld, so in the end they ended up being real close in price. I have been looking at Mig welders because mine is crapping out and I keep looking at the HF version so I am not anti HF by any means. That machine would probably work for what you need it for, might not be a bad idea to get the extended warranty. One thing I will say about HF, they have never given me issues when it comes to bringing stuff back under warranty. They had a sale on welders not too long ago, might hold out to see if another comes along, seems like it was 25% off for members. (if you are not a member you can use my phone number if you want when you check out :grin: )
Dave, not sure if you are still looking or not, but I think HF has that welder you were looking at on sale right now.
Hey, Dave I just saw this thread check out Jody at welding tips and tricks on youtube for some Tig welder reviews even some affordable machines he's had great luck with. I have a miller synchro wave 180 transformer machine robust as they come but also big and heavy. Aluminum takes A/C and amps lots of amps a 180 will just do 3/16" inch thick aluminum and not for very long before you run out of duty cycle or the gas-cooled torch gets too hot to hold.
I also have a miller division 180 inverter much smaller and lighter multi-voltage it also seems to offer better cleaning action on aluminum than a transformer machine you'll want a balance control on a transformer machine not as necessary on an inverter machine. The inverters' downsides are not quite as robust and more expensive when they break.
My go to is a Miller 210 dynasty inverter water cooled but that's a 10k machine.
For light aluminum work and any steel work you'll do a gas-cooled torch is fine.
(edit)
wanted to add I don't necessarily recommend the Miller diversion it's okay but you can get more for your money feel free to call me if you like and again check out Jodys' channel and store.
Im not against Harbor freight for some stuff but I'm not sure HF and welders are a good idea I'd step up a little even if it's the same machine with better quality control and support it'll be worth it. Kind of like their metal lathes a jet or grizzly may be the identical castings but they are NOT the same lathe at all worlds of difference.
Well, I may be taking a completely different road on this now.....hold on to your hats!
I'm looking at a Laser welder now!
I'm sure you've all seen the You Tube videos on these - they look pretty amazing......since what I'm doing is all very light duty I don't need a really heavy duty one with industrial capability and duty cycles, but even so they've all seemed to be in the $10K range and I can't do that BUT, I found this one.....
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805425113870.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.69.54fe4004mWV9r7&algo_pvid=aeac1291-c733-4dcf-9700-13102507c36d&aem_p4p_detail=202307200252316893139352106850000266893&algo_exp_id=aeac1291-c733-4dcf-9700-13102507c36d-34&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21USD%211200.00%211200.0%21%21%211200.00%21%21%40211bf2da16898467518448909d0790%2112000033744870546%21sea%21US%21847495468&curPageLogUid=V1wl8WkTYd7J&search_p4p_id=202307200252316893139352106850000266893_7 (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805425113870.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.69.54fe4004mWV9r7&algo_pvid=aeac1291-c733-4dcf-9700-13102507c36d&aem_p4p_detail=202307200252316893139352106850000266893&algo_exp_id=aeac1291-c733-4dcf-9700-13102507c36d-34&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21USD%211200.00%211200.0%21%21%211200.00%21%21%40211bf2da16898467518448909d0790%2112000033744870546%21sea%21US%21847495468&curPageLogUid=V1wl8WkTYd7J&search_p4p_id=202307200252316893139352106850000266893_7)
I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I'm really tempted. I figure if it works as advertised, I can sell it and get some of my money back when I'm done with my projects.....or just keep it and use it. Who knows? At $4300 shipped it's a bunch of money for a welder for a hobby shop, but the results might make it worth the price to get these kinds of welds on my big project. it also comes with the cleaning and cutting heads......
Dave: :grin: :grin:
Are the welding consumables readily available in the USA? The quality of weld looks outstanding! If it does everything the ad says it does, then it would be of value for your major project. After your project is completed there should be a resale market for the item if you do not decide to keep it. I know that $ 4,300 is a large expense up front but if it works then it could be well worth the investment.
I feel like you should mass produce some manifolds or something with it!
Yes, the wire
Quote from: jdbuild1 on September 13, 2023, 08:36:34 AMDave: :grin: :grin:
Are the welding consumables readily available in the USA? The quality of weld looks outstanding! If it does everything the ad says it does, then it would be of value for your major project. After your project is completed there should be a resale market for the item if you do not decide to keep it. I know that $ 4,300 is a large expense up front but if it works then it could be well worth the investment.
Yes, the wire is just normal welding wire spools, and it uses nitrogen for shielding gas, except for aluminium which uses argon. you do have to back purge when welding stainless tubing like for exhaust.
I think the cleaning function could be really good for cleaning Sprite transmission cases, it wouldn't take a whole bunch of rebuilds on those to pay for it, and cleaning the case takes at least half of the time spent rebuilding one.!
BTW, Welcome to the forum jdbuild1!
Well, even tho the prices are still slowly coming down I just can't justify spending more than $4K for a laser welder.
However, the prices of inverter welders are thru the floor right now, you can get a 200amp gas mig/tig/arc/flux welder for really pretty cheap, shipped!
I may have to pop for one of these.....I borrowed Zac's inverter mig and was impressed with how clean the weld arc was. And the duty cycle (which probably isn't really an issue for what I do) is up over 60%, compared to the 23% my old welder does!
This all came about because my buddy Clancy wanted to sell me his Lincoln 110 - he has a pace maker now and can't use it anymore. But looking at the specs on that one compared to what you can buy these days it doesn't make sense, even for free! That is, compared to the one I already have which still welds just fine, but is also low amp so only really usable on light stuff.
My thinking is if I'm going to jump at all I should make it a worthwhile move and get something with far more capability than I currently have.
More learnings.....these lower end tig welders have what's called "lift start" - you touch the tip to the metal, then as you lift off it starts the arc. Most of them use a scratch start much like an arc (stick) welder.
They also have what's called 2T/4T....you would use 2T to weld small bits, like tacking pieces together....so you click the torch to start the weld and let off to end it. With 4T you click to start then let off and it continues to weld till you click it again. That way you don't have to hold the trigger the whole time, you can concentrate on moving the torch.
Lastly, the duty cycle on even the inexpensive ones is 60%, way better than the 25% on most home hobby shop transformer type Migs/Tigs
I also learned a new term - MAG vs MIG......Mig - Metal inert gas - is used for welding non-ferrous metals like aluminum and uses Argon/Helium for the shielding gas. MAG - Metal Active Gas - is used for welding steel, using the classic C02 and Argon mix which provides better penetration.
MAG is generally more cost-effective and suited for thick, heavy-duty industrial applications, whereas MIG provides a cleaner, more precise, and low-spatter finish for thinner materials. So, I've been using the wrong mix all these years? Cause I always used the classic "Mig" mix.
BTW, "jdbuild1" post reads like it was written by an AI bot, doesn't it?
So, I bought a welder.
This is one of the new inverter welders and most of the stuff I wrote in the above post is from the description of the one I bought.
It's a Chinese made unit of course, and when it arrived yesterday I was surprised how heavy it is - Zac's 120V inverter welder from HF is light as a feather. This one feels like it weighs as much as my old transformer MIG, but looking at the quality of the cables and fittings it came with I'm pretty impressed so far. Today I'm making up an extension cord as the only 240V socket I have is across the shop from where I'll be using it.
This one is rated for way more duty and is a 200 amp vs the 100 amp MIG I've used for the last 35 years. My old one still works just fine but this new one can be used as MIG, Stick or TIG, and I'm wanting to learn (or maybe re-learn) to do that. To me TIG and gas welding are the same thing, except you're using electricity instead of Oxy/acetylene to make the heat.
I also found out you can use silicon bronze wire with this if you turn the amps down and braze with it, according to a welder friend of mine that's the best way to weld body sheet metal together and it's what all the body shops use now.
This one is made and sold by "Yesweld" and I paid the grand sum of.........wait for it.......
$92
shipped, including taxes and with a one year warranty and free return shipping.
I know, that's stupid cheap and I might not have bought it except for the free return policy. I figured what do I have to lose at this point? If it works well, it's a score. If it doesn't it goes back.
But I have to say just looking at it out of the box it looks like a quality bit of kit. The cables and all hardware is really well made and it came with everything except the TIG torch, which they want another $57 for. I may order it but I'll fire it up and weld some steel with it first and see how it goes. The only downside is it doesn't weld aluminum, but I'm not sure that's an issue for me, and I have a friend who can do that for me if I need it.
Here's the link if you want to read the specs.
Edit: Link no longer goes to the welder I bought, but I'll leave it as it goes to the brands current offering.
YesWelder (https://www.ebay.com/itm/166867467509?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11996.m144671.l197929&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=302a9f875643454abb98a68c2460460d&bu=45000288444&exe=0&ext=0&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20260213062146&segname=11996)
You probably said, but you'll be using gas with the mig?
Yes, although this one can do flux core as well, so I may buy a small roll and do some of that too.
I don't know where the tradeoff is between easier to grind and less splatter etc to clean up. When I did my Jag I had an expensive Snap On welder that I borrowed and I was able to do plug welds that looked like spot welds in that they didn't stand above the top layer of metal, yet were fused well and strong. I haven't been able to do that with my own inexpensive 120V welder, I'm hoping I can fine tune this new one to get similar results as I did with the SO welder.
I can get some very flush plug welds with my mig, but it's a hobart 210 and about $1000 more than what you just paid when I bought it. As long as the surfaces are clean and I select #2 heat range, I get very good results.
Today I made up an extension cord that plugs into the existing 240V socket I use for my air compressor, the other end I matched up to the plug on the welder cord. I needed a fairly long cord as my 240V socket is not close to where I'll be welding, either on the hot rod or outside on my welding table, and of course it has to be heavy duty enough to carry the load.
That done I fired it up for the first time. I still don't have the spool of wire loaded as I need to move it onto the little home made welding cart, and I need to hook up the gas bottle. I also need to figure out someplace to park the cables when I'm not using it.
Likewise - I have to figure out how to use the dumb thing! I did find some You Tube Academy videos so now I at least understand what the knobs and buttons all do, but I need to make up a chart to correlate the numbers on the readouts to what I'm welding. It would be nice if these chineseum tools came with some sort of instructions.
I learned something else this morning - one of the Age and Treachery Racing guys we breakfast with on Saturday sells very expensive ($30K average) welding equipment to body shops, and his machines are all set up to use silicon bronze welding wire - in other words they braze the body panels together. It mostly has to do with the extra strength steel they use in modern cars and not getting too much heat into the weld and causing the metal to anneal (soften). I asked him where I can get some of that wire, what it costs and what sort of specialized welder it takes to use it. Answers - downtown, cheap and the one I just bought will do it if I turn it down low enough!
OK then, I think I may go ahead and learn how to do that too, while I'm in there! :grin:
Oh, and I went ahead and ordered the TiG torch while I was at it......
While going thru the YouTube video's on the welder most everyone who reviewed it either by itself or in comparison with other similar welders came away very impressed. The guy I learned the most from has had his for 5 years now and it's his go to welder. He's had no issues with it at all. Encouraging. One surprise tho, the fan is really loud. I rarely heard the fan on my old welder, although occasionally if I was working it really hard I would hear it spool up to its highest speed for a while.
silicon bronze is definitely the way to go for mig welding body panels. I have used it back before I got my tig welder. At the time it was difficult to find and rather expensive. It creates a softer weld that can be hammer and dollied flat without cracking unlike normal mig. If you get good with it, you can really limit the amount of grinding you need to do.
That said, you also get the same result using tig. You get a much softer weld that can be hammer and dollied flat, along with a smaller heat zone.
I have yet to master it, but am getting better when I have time to practice. Which hasn't been much lately unfortunately. If you really want to step into drama and controversy check out the guys who endorse welding one continuous tig bead start to finish with no stopping on a panel. No skip welding, or spot move spot move techniques. I have found when done well the continuous tig weld produces much less warpage and the warpage that is there is more consistent and easier to correct. My biggest problem has been consistency, sometimes I get a nice result, sometimes less so. I need more time to get more practicing in so that when I start for real maybe I'll be better at it. I just really enjoy tig welding for some reason.
I know a lot of guys do prefer TiG, once you get a smooth rhythm going it's kind of a zen thing I guess.
I've seen guys do that total long weld thing, but it seems first they spot a few places to hold it together, then hammer/dolly those to release the stress, then start at one end and tig the whole thing.
My torch will be here Wed, but I'm going to work with it as MiG first to get used to the control settings.
I spent today cleaning the old welder, I didn't realize how filthy it had gotten over the years. I tried setting the new one in my old cart and it doesn't quite fit, I'm going to have to make some small mods to it. I also found the gas pipe that came with the new welder doesn't fit my gauges, I'll need to come up with an adaptor.....right now the gauges take a female fitting and the hose they sent has male fittings both ends.
It's interesting - this welder has both a wire advance button and a purge button for the gas.
I'll be putting my old Clarke 100E up for sale once I get this one squared away, it's a really good welder to learn how to MiG on. One cool thing is the spool of wire is driven, so you never have it birds nest up when you release the trigger, it stops immediately.
Edit: I had no idea it was made in Italy, I thought it was English?!?!?
The feed is the same as mine. I didn't realize there was another style that doesn't stop immediately when you let of the trigger actually. Time to fit 10lb spools in there!
I had a 10lb spool in it, but since I'm planning to sell it soonish, I put a small spool of .30 in it so I could demonstrate that it works to a potential buyer. Cleaned up nicely, didn't it? Looks almost new now. I put the 10lb spool of .23 wire in the new welder, as soon as I figure out what adaptor I need to connect the bottle I'm going to do some test welds with it, so I wanted to have the same wire in it.
The new one is driven off the capstan, and the spool freewheels, so there is a tensioning device to keep it from unwinding after you let off the trigger.
BTW, the trigger on the new one feels quite a bit more sophisticated than the old one, which was simply a piece of metal that gets pressed against a stud in the handle. I had to clean the surfaces occasionally to make a good contact. It always worked just fine, but this new one feels like it has a micro switch in it.
It's so clean I thought that was the new welder. It's the old one you're selling
Yeah, it cleaned up pretty well for being as old as it is, still works perfectly too. I'll hang on to it for a while as I get the new one sorted. I'm going to try some brake cleaner on those rocker switches, that's the only part that didn't shine up nicely.
I need to go find an adaptor to fit the new gas hose to the old gauges. I think I may need to go to a welding store....maybe while I'm there I'll pick up some silicon bronze wire. Save me a trip.
Once I get the gas turned on I'm ready to weld with it. Oh, and I need to reconfigure my welding cart a bit to fit the new one, it also needs some new casters - all the little balls fell out of one as I was moving it around today
So, my go to place for fittings and such could not come up with an adaptor to make my hose work with my gauges, so we whacked off the end and crimped on a straight 1/4" pipe fitting, which let me hook it all up. It'll work out OK cause if I need to use or demonstrate the old welder I can still hook it back up to the bottle.
Next up I decided to clean up 35 years of filth on the cart I made - that's everyone's first welding project when they buy a welder, build a cart for it! - I made mine out of an old hand cart I got from HF for $10 on sale, should have bought another cause they're like $60 now, and mine was "convertible", in that it had a set of casters so you could roll it flat rather than upright.
Anyway, once that was done I had to make a few modifications to make the new welder fit. First I had to move the bottle over to one side from the center, then I had to cut out a section of the cross piece as the gas outlet ran right into it. It wasn't structural so it doesn't affect the strength.
Next I need to figure out where to hang the cords and see if there's a way to bolt it down just in case. I simply ran a couple of screws thru the back flange on the old one, this one's not made that way. I'm also thinking about raising the front edge up so I can see the buttons and readouts better, I don't know if that will be necessary but we'll see after I use it a few times.
Lastly, the cords come out of the front and stick out quite a ways, I don't know if that will affect where it fits under the bench or not - we'll see.
My TiG torch is on the way, should be here next week.
I'm excited to get the new welder out for a spin today, I injured my foot a few days ago and haven't been able to stand for more than a few minutes but it's starting to feel better so I'm planning to go down to the shop today and burn some wire. I'll post some pics of the results a little later.... :great:
OK, spent some time with the new welder - I think once I get the setup nailed it should be terrific.
To that end today I got the gas plumbed up and installed the 10lb spool of .23 wire, then I tried to run it thru the torch and it would not drive. spent some time scratching my head, then I pulled the drive wheel out and saw that the grooves in it were either for flux core or .35 wire. I dug around for a while till I found the alternate drive wheel that came with it and could see that not only were the grooves not as deep, they were knurled! so, fitted that wheel and it moved smoothly once I got the tension set right and sure enough, it drove the wire smoothly till it came out the end of the torch. I switched over to the .23 tip and set up to run my first welds.
I started by just making some dots, since most of what I'll do will be plug welds.
But first - I watched some more "You Tube Welding Academy" videos on setup - this thing is wildly different that anything I've used before in the variety of setup options there are besides just wire speed and amp - in fact once you set the thickness of metal you're welding and the size of wire it will automatically set the wire speed and amps for you. The issue for me was learning what the metric equivalent was to the thickness of the metal I'm using, so I could pick the right numbers. I'll make a small chart to tape to the inside of the door with those baseline numbers on it to save some time on setup in the future.
So I did about 5 or 6 dots on the factory setting, then I added a little more power just to see the results, then I added some inductance to see if I could see any difference there....I think I'm going to have to burn a lot of wire before I can see the subtle differences these adjustments make, but for now I think I'm ready to melt some metal together.
More as it happens. One thing I've learned, I built my little welding cart so it would fit under my bench, but I have to get clear down on the ground to see the buttons and dials on this welder so I can set it and that is hard for me to do. So I may wind up buying a more modern cart that moves the welder up to like waist height....we'll see. The problem there is where the heck do I put it?
A pic of my efforts today.
Looking good :13:
Getting there. I think now that I've been using it a bit I'll probably go ahead and sell the old one, just so I have more room in the shop. It's worked extremely well for all these years, the only issue I've had is finding consumables for it but I'm well stocked up now.
It's the perfect welder for someone who wants to learn to weld as it will run flux core or gas as long as you buy the gauges and rent a bottle of gas - worth it IMHO for the cleaner welds.
It won't bring much money as there are scads of welders on FB and Craigslist for really cheap, most of those are small stick welders or flux core only and most of them are so dirty - I mean, you couldn't take a shop rag and wipe it down once in a while?
Edit: found silicon bronze wire - from the local welding shop it's only available in 10lb spools for $200, online I found a 2lb spool for $42 but I think I'll leave that be for now. I also need to see about getting the tig torch set up and I'll need to buy some welding rod for that, plus I'll have to change out the gas bottle for straight argon. I still have a lot of mig mix left in my bottle so maybe that can wait too.
Pretty sure my welding cart came from HF. I've had it ages and still rolls around. I saw vevor has good deals on wire spools.
I'm sure one of theirs would work just fine, like I said the only problem is where do I put it since it won't fit under the bench anymore. Need to give that some thought before I run out and buy one.
Would something like a Harbor Freight "lifting cart" work?
Lower it to fit under the bench for storage, raise it when using for reaching/reading the controls?
I have one of those, but it's usually in use......plus no place to attach the gas bottle. also, the handle is too tall to fit under the bench - while it is removable, it would be a PITA to do that every time I used it. For now I think I'll just use what I have.
OK, well this has been an interesting journey with the new welder. I'm used to having two dials, one for "heat" and one for wire speed that you adjust to get your perfect weld. This one has all electronic displays and one knob. As you cycle thru the various parameters you use the one knob to adjust those. There is no speed control, that's done by the computer based on the other settings you choose.
First setting is the amps, second is the voltage, third is the inductance. You also have to choose your wire size, gas type and so on. Once set the machine is supposed to do the rest.
I've used Mig mix - 75% Argon 25% Co2 - for my entire mig welding career - some 40+ years now, but I read several places that said for welding thin sheet metal such as car bodies, straight argon is better, so when this bottle ran out I switched over a few days ago. It has not gone well....
So today I'm going to do several things to try and figure out why I'm having so much trouble - which includes poor penetration while blowing holes in the metal at the same time! First I'm going back thru the settings - I managed to find a chart that gives the base settings for what I'm doing, tho it's pretty incomplete. I'll set it up according to those and see what it does. If that doesn't give good results I'll hook up my old welder and see what it does with the same bottle of gas. Depending on how that goes I may wind up taking this bottle back and buying another bottle of Mig Mix. It was welding OK on that, not perfect but OK.
I'm sure it's more a matter of me not understanding how it works rather than a machine that doesn't work correctly....it does weld, and some of my welds have been really nice (on Mig mix). Seems obvious that the gas is most of the problem here, but according to what I've read, it should work better - and this machine has a setting specifically for this type of gas.....
Still learning.....which is always a good thing.
I still haven't found a cart solution, but I think I'm just going to go buy (well, order - no one has anything in stock that you can just buy these days! but that's a whole 'nother rant!) a cart and be done with it. I modified my old cart to fit this welder and it works OK, but getting it up higher would really help, plus too and also these new carts have drawers for your extra cables and such and a cabinet to store your helmet inside.